ECT What is the Will of God . . .

[Jerry Shugart]

I gave you the exact , complete , definition of pisteuo , out of the Greek dictionary , derived from the word pisteuo , the exact word the original authors used to communicate how Faith ( pistis ) is applied .

The definition which I quoted from you is NOT THE COMPLETE definition of the word pisteuo. Earlier I gave a definition from the word from Vine's which you left out.

Again, you pose as an expert on the meaning of the word but you don't even know the first thing about the word.

 

[Faither]

The definition which I quoted from you is NOT THE COMPLETE definition of the word pisteuo. Earlier I gave a definition from the word from Vine's which you left out.

Again, you pose as an expert on the meaning of the word but you don't even know the first thing about the word.

Ok Jerry you can live with your choices . I thought you might be different from all the others in here , but your exactly the same . You can't defend yourself so you go right to misrepresentation and name-calling . If you were really interested in pisteuo , you would have chimed in on my pisteuo thread that you've obviously been avoiding for the past year . I'll be here if you ever want to get real !

 

[nikolai_42]

"The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." (The Blue Letter Bible).​

It says it might or might not happen depending on the circumstances. Since the Lord is the One who is giving the insight to people so that they might know the Lord Jesus then are you going to argue that the circumstances might be that the Lord is unable to do that?

No, I'm not arguing that the Lord is unable to do anything. I am arguing that someone has the option of stopping in their progression of knowing Him. The letters to the seven churches certainly give ample example of that taking place.

Especially when we read the following:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).​

I would say that unless a person resists the Holy Spirit he will know the Lord Jesus because his faith stands in the power of God.

We aren't talking about faith. You may be, but that's not where the question lies. It lies in knowing God. Not just believing Him. Though I have all faith so that I can move mountains - but have not love - I am nothing. We love Him because He first loved us. And...

As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye in my love.
If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide in my love; even as I have kept my Father's commandments, and abide in his love.
John 15:9-10

Faith is not the expression of the character of God. Love is. If we are saved but don't show the fruits of the spirit, we aren't bearing much fruit (also in John 15). We may have faith, but the character of God is something that is not necessarily attendant with a conversion experience. For whatever reason, people do come to the Lord and then don't continue therein. It certainly could be that they were never His, but from a personal standpoint, if we don't have that desire for holiness, for knowing Christ in a very real and personal way (not just His salvation) are we continuing on? Are we abiding in Him? Recall that there were 3 different servants given 3 different quantities of talents and all 3 had different returns. What happened to the third?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I gave you the exact , complete , definition of pisteuo , out of the Greek dictionary , derived from the word pisteuo , the exact word the original authors used to communicate how Faith ( pistis ) is applied .

Here is the defintion which you gave:

The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".​

Tell me which of those meanings you place on the word "pisteou" in the following verse:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

 

[Jerry Shugart]

-DELETED-

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No, I'm not arguing that the Lord is unable to do anything. I am arguing that someone has the option of stopping in their progression of knowing Him.

I never said that is not true. But I am arguing that those with true faith know the Lord Jesus. And your own words indicate that they do. How can anyone have their progression of "knowing" Him cut short if they don't know Him to begin with?

I love the Lord Jesus because I know Him from what the Scriptures reveal about Him, beginning with the gospel which reveals that He died for my sins. How can anyone not love Him just because of that? The Scriptures also reveal many things about the Lord Jesus and those things increase my knowledge of Him.

What do you know about Him? Let me start with the following question to you in regard to your knowledge of Him. Do you know that He was made like His brethren in all things?:

"Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted" (Heb.2:17-18).

In his commentary on this verse Matthew Poole wrote that "To be made like unto his brethren; a man having a true body and soul like them in every thing, which was necessary to make him a complete Redeemer; agreeable to them in all things necessary to their nature, qualities, conditions, and affections; like them in sorrows, griefs, pains, death."

In order to really know the Lord Jesus in regard to what He is as the Christian's High Priest we must KNOW that He was made like His brethren in "all things."

Do you KNOW that He was made like His brethren in all things?

Thanks!

 

[Faither]

Here is the defintion which you gave:

The specific act that the Greek word pisteuo needed to translate to English is, the vines: "A personal surrender to Him, and a life inspired by such surrender." The Strongs: "Pisteuo means not just to believe, but to be persuaded, to trust, to place confidence in, signifies reliance upon, not mere credence, hence it is translated "commit unto," "commit to ones trust,"Be commited unto".​

Tell me which of those meanings you place on the word "pisteou" in the following verse:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuō) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

Already did twice go back and look at them and ask me what you don't understand .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Already did twice go back and look at them and ask me what you don't understand .

We can continue the discussion on the thread which you started on this subject.

 

[Faither]

We can continue the discussion on the thread which you started on this subject.

No you claim that know God and His will is by " believing " God's word , thats incorrect and will be dealt with on this thread or not at all .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The answer is in the Vines Greek dictionary . The application of Faith is the Greek word pisteuo . Pisteuo is defined as " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

That could have been done , starting a relationship with Christ , simply begun by the drawing of the Father , then responded to by pisteuo .

So when we see the word pisteuo in the following passage it means that the Lord Jesus did not commit Himself to them even though they made a personal surrender to Him?:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuo) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

You sure have some strange ideas concerning the meaning of the Greek word pisteuo.

 

[Faither]

So when we see the word pisteuo in the following passage it means that the Lord Jesus did not commit Himself to them even though they made a personal surrender to Him?:

"Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuo) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

You sure have some strange ideas concerning the meaning of the Greek word pisteuo.

No , pisteuo doesn't mean that Christ did not commit Himself to them .

Pisteuo means they made a personal surrender to Him , but it was not genuine . They didn't follow it up with the second part of the definition of pisteuo , they didn't live a life inspired by such surrender .

So as the result of unsustained pisteuo , Christ did not commit Himself to them .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Pisteuo means they made a personal surrender to Him , but it was not genuine .

So when John used the word pisteuo in the following passage he was mistaken because their personal surrender to the Lord Jesus was not genuine?:

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuo) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

After all, you said that the word pisteuo means "personal surrender":

Pisteuo is defined as " a personal surrender to Him , and a life inspired by such surrender ."

Too bad you weren't around to correct the Apostle John!

 

[Faither]

So when John used the word pisteuo in the following passage he was mistaken because their personal surrender to the Lord Jesus was not genuine?:

Now when he was in Jerusalem at the passover, in the feast day, many believed (pisteuo) in his name, when they saw the miracles which he did. But Jesus did not commit himself unto them, because he knew all men" (Jn.2:23-24).​

After all, you said that the word pisteuo means "personal surrender":



Too bad you weren't around to correct the Apostle John!

I have to remind myself that your deception dictates that as soon as you believe , you are filled with the Spirit of Christ . That's a lie from the pit of hell .

Pisteuo true Faith and faithing , pistis and pisteuo , is a process , a journey . This process starts with the drawing or calling of the Father . Our response is the first act of pisteuo or application of Faith . This first act , or application must be genuine. If I were to surrender my life to Christ one day then turned around and continued to serve myself instead , that wouldn't be genuine faithing or pisteuo would it .

That is exactly why Christ wouldn't commit to them , because they made an initial surrender and didn't continue to live a life inspired by such surrender .

Not that hard to understand Jerry .
One more slap , and I'm done with you .

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I have to remind myself that your deception dictates that as soon as you believe , you are filled with the Spirit of Christ . That's a lie from the pit of hell .

You deceptively leave out the following definition of pisteuo from Vine's:

"to believe"

 

[Faither]

You deceptively leave out the following definition of pisteuo from Vine's:

"to believe"

I have the Vines expository dictionary of NT words with their precise definitions , unabridged edition .
It doesn't have those two words " to believe " in the definition of pisteuo .

It does say " all this stands in contrast to " BELIEF " in its purely natural exercise , which consists of an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to it's proof ."

To believe is not in the Vines definition of pisteuo , it accually disclaimes that pisteuo means " NOT " just to believe .

All this , still not my opinion but one unmovable fact upon another .

I have at least100 more facts to present behind those if you can ever accept this milk understandings first .

 

[Faither]

Ok Jerry let's look at this from your false understanding of faithing .

You think Faith when applied it's " believing " in God's word . You think that at a moment of belief , you receive the Spirit of Christ and your saved forever .

Well those in Jn 2:23 believed and Christ wouldn't commit Himself to them .

Why is that Jerry ? I

 

[Cross Reference]

I have to remind myself that your deception dictates that as soon as you believe , you are filled with the Spirit of Christ . That's a lie from the pit of hell .

And If God chose it to be so with anyone what would you say about God: "Yer out of order God, even though you know hearts!? I wonder what He sees when He looks inside your heart, Jon? . . . conceit, maybe?


OMT: "Many" doesn't mean "ALL".

 

[Cross Reference]

delete duplicate.

 

[Cross Reference]

"The subjunctive mood is the mood of possibility and potentiality. The action described may or may not occur, depending upon circumstances. Conditional sentences of the third class ("ean" + the subjunctive) are all of this type, as well as many commands following conditional purpose clauses, such as those beginning with "hina." (The Blue Letter Bible).​

It says it might or might not happen depending on the circumstances. Since the Lord is the One who is giving the insight to people so that they might know the Lord Jesus then are you going to argue that the circumstances might be that the Lord is unable to do that?

Especially when we read the following:

"And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power: That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God" (1 Cor.2:4-5).​

I would say that unless a person resists the Holy Spirit he will know the Lord Jesus because his faith stands in the power of God.

> . . . and God is a "Gracious" God that when we are faithless yet He remains faithful.

 

[Cross Reference]

I have the Vines expository dictionary of NT words with their precise definitions , unabridged edition .
It doesn't have those two words " to believe " in the definition of pisteuo .

It does say " all this stands in contrast to " BELIEF " in its purely natural exercise , which consists of an opinion held in good faith without the necessary reference to it's proof ."

To believe is not in the Vines definition of pisteuo , it accually disclaimes that pisteuo means " NOT " just to believe .

All this , still not my opinion but one unmovable fact upon another .

I have at least100 more facts to present behind those if you can ever accept this milk understandings first .

How 'bout interpreting this passage using your Greek "Pists" and "Pisteuos"?:

"If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself." 2 Timothy 2:13 (KJV) . . . .

. . . "Of these things put them in remembrance, charging them before the Lord that they strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers". 2 Timothy 2:14 (KJV)