What is the Gospel?

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

My reasoning is overall context.

What kind of God is it if He burns non-believers forever?

What makes you think non-believers live forever in burning hell?

Please answer the following:

1. Will Satan go to Heaven or Hell?

2. Will The fallen angels go to Heaven or Hell?

3. Will Demons go to Heaven or Hell?

4. Will non-believers go to Heaven or Hell?

5. Is God a just God?

 

[meshak]

Please answer the following:

1. Will Satan go to Heaven or Hell?

2. Will The fallen angels go to Heaven or Hell?

3. Will Demons go to Heaven or Hell?

4. Will non-believers go to Heaven or Hell?

5. Is God a just God?

I don't go into all those question. It is no biggy to me where they go, it is none of my business to question those.

But Yes, God is Just God.

Above all, He is loving God.

 

[patrick jane]

No, anything that belongs to God is Capitalised.

God's Calendar.

God's Realm.

God's Man.

God's Word.

etc

I disagree as do many others. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh. Revelation 19:13 KJV - [FONT=&quot]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.[/FONT]

God's word is the Bible, the words of the Bible. Semantics perhaps, and you can do whatever you want. For that matter, satan is often capitalized and I will not give satan a capital s. Also, as in the scripture I posted, it does not capitalize his. I try to capitialize His He and Him whenever speaking of God and Jesus Christ. :idunno:

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I don't go into all those question. It is no biggy to me where they go, it is none of my business to question those.

But Yes, God is Just God.

Above all, He is loving God.

Yes God is just:

Just

adjective
1. based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

Would a fair God allow Satan into Heaven?

What about Hitler ?

Or Pol Pot?

Or Mao Tse-Tung

Or Kim Il Sung

Or for Kim jong il

 

[patrick jane]

No, anything that belongs to God is Capitalised.

God's Calendar.

God's Realm.

God's Man.

God's Word.

etc

Everything Is God's, Should We Capitalize All Words? :chuckle:

 

[meshak]

Yes God is just:

Just

adjective
1. based on or behaving according to what is morally right and fair.

Would a fair God allow Satan into Heaven?

What about Hitler ?

Or Pol Pot?

Or Mao Tse-Tung

Or Kim Il Sung

Or for Kim jong il

whats your point?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

I disagree as do many others. The Word was with God and the Word was God. The Word became flesh. Revelation 19:13 KJV - [FONT="]And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.[/FONT]

God's word is the Bible, the words of the Bible. Semantics perhaps, and you can do whatever you want. For that matter, satan is often capitalized and I will not give satan a capital s. Also, as in the scripture I posted, it does not capitalize his. I try to capitialize His He and Him whenever speaking of God and Jesus Christ. :idunno:

Yeah I hate to capitalise satan too. The Word was with God = correct. God's Word = also correct. You say tomato I say tomato.

 

[glorydaz]

Would you agree that salvation was possible for Judas in a hypothetical sense?

Disregarding the details of Judas' life decisions that we are told about in scripture and that secured his condemnation, for the sake of argument...

IF Judas had repented and put his faith in Christ, he would have been saved.

Right?

Absolutely. It is never too late to believe and be saved.

I see no evidence in Scripture that he did that, however.

 

[glorydaz]

Do you consider that anyone is born such that belief in Christ (for their salvation) is not possible? - or do you believe everyone without exception may exercise faith in Christ?

Of course anyone can believe.....and have faith in Christ.

Not believing in Christ is something all humans do is it not? Since you affirm 'anyone can believe', what is your point?

...and you continue with the ad hominems....

It looks to me like my "point" was to answer one of your foolish questions. :yawn:


....And you continue with the stupidity.....

 

[glorydaz]

:chuckle:

But seriously, you might consider just simply putting her on ignore for a time.

For there is no win for both sides with her kind.

Spoiler

I put her on ignore for a time here and there all the time.

Only find it had been in vain when I return to respond to her.

I find her exactly where I last left her - in her exact same old duplicity and fool projection of her duplicity as coming not from her but from whomever she happens to be spitting on.

Just yesterday she tried to pull her exact lap dog expectation nonsense from me that she is now accusing you of expecting from her.

When I chose not to play lap dog to her nonsense, out poured the other side of her crystal clear obvious self-deluded duplicity

The women is obviously living in her own, long since deeply entrenched self-righteous hypocrisy.

Several of her pals are just like that also.

To their shame, one would think that is a trait of MADs, in general.

It might be best if you simply decide to view such through the lens of Romans 5:6-8, and perhaps ignore such for a time.

For as the Apostle they claim to follow had noted, and Ep found out the hard way, where dancing with such a bit too long is concerned...

1 Corinthians 15:33 Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.

Yep, I think I'll set the thermostate to a high Romans 5:6-8 once more, where perceiving such is concerned, at the same time that I set off on my boat to those ever equally perfectly warm shores of a Club MAD vacation - of ignoring her fool kind for a time once more :thumb:

2 Timothy 2:7 Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things.

Clearly an obsession gone out of control. :chew:

 

[patrick jane]

- about that two worf diffetence

Worf, this is Captain Picard, beam me up. :rotfl:


You did this to somebody yesterday, I couldn't resist. :rotfl:

petty

 

[Clete]

Absolutely. It is never too late to believe and be saved.

I knew you would say that. I mean, I really was anticipating almost this exact response. That amazes me.

I just don't see where the disagreement is.

I see no evidence in Scripture that he did that, however.

Well yes, that's true but to state it in that way would be to form an argument from silence.

It's stronger to state that all the biblical evidence seems to suggest that he did not die in a saved state.

But that's just me being picky.

 

[glorydaz]

I knew you would say that. I mean, I really was anticipating almost this exact response. That amazes me.

Probably because you don't make a habit of reading things into a person's every word.

I just don't see where the disagreement is.

Believe it or not, the disagreement was over the fact that I said Paul was speaking to believers in 1 Cor. 15:1-4 (with the use of the word "our"). When we see the word "our" in Paul's writings, we can be pretty sure that's the case. "Unless you believed in vain" should have made that clear, in my estimation. Personally, I saw it as a "power trip" that resulted from my offending the Evil One.

Well yes, that's true but to state it in that way would be to form an argument from silence.

It's stronger to state that all the biblical evidence seems to suggest that he did not die in a saved state.

I can't claim I understand the difference there.

But that's just me being picky.

Yes. But let's face it....if I was as "picky", and well spoken as you are, Clete, I wouldn't always be getting into trouble. :chuckle:

 

[Sonnet]

I believe Paul preached that.

 

[Danoh]

My reasoning is overall context.

What kind of God is it if He burns non-believers forever?

What makes you think non-believers live forever in burning hell?

Yep; that first question is basically the very first question the Jehovah's Witness starts a conversation with, when approaching people with their Watch Tower propaganda.

And its a good question. One that can and should be dealt with.

1 - The problem is that the JW's use of it is strategically based on very specific sales tactics the JW is unwittingly taught to use throughout his or her presentation, or what the Apostle Paul negatively refers to as "the wisdom of words" in passages like....

1 Corinthians 1:17's "For Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel: not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of none effect."

2- Another problem with your "why would a loving God do" this; that; the other, is that it intentionally appeals to the ignorance about such things in the average person; including the average "church goer."

It is the exact tatic that Genesis 3 depicts the Adversary subtily applying during his attempted and successful tempting of Adam thru Eve.

Genesis 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LORD God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

3 - Lastly, of other issues with it that could be cited and or explored in depth, is the simple fact that it was a loving God Who sent His Son to suffer that horrible death for ALL.

"What loving Father would have" allowed the following?

But He did just that.

Luke 22:39 And he came out, and went, as he was wont, to the mount of Olives; and his disciples also followed him. 22:40 And when he was at the place, he said unto them, Pray that ye enter not into temptation. 22:41 And he was withdrawn from them about a stone's cast, and kneeled down, and prayed, 22:42 Saying, Father, if thou be willing, remove this cup from me: nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done. 22:43 And there appeared an angel unto him from heaven, strengthening him. 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

Talk about the anxiety of His obviously OVERWHELMING agony that "his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground."

Which only happens to a person under VERY, VERY great, practically UNBEARABLE stress.

No Meshak, you have been deceived.

Your ignorance (unawareness) of basic, sound teaching on this issue way back when you were first approached by the JW cult, allowed them to deceive you into their own self-deception with them.

Of course, that is NO reason to spit on you.

None - At - All.

There is simply no cause for it from ANYONE claiming THEIRS is THE gospel of the G-R-A-C-E - OF GOD."

For God's view of you ALSO and despite the deception you were carefully reeled into by a very strategic cult against your eternal soul - God's view of you NEVERTHELESS continues to be the EVER patient GRACE of how that...

Romans 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly. 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

2 Corinthians 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

Until that day when HE ALONE decides against the WILLINGLY lost to.. "speak unto them IN HIS WRATH, and VEX them in his SORE displeasure." Pslam 2:5.

And that is only the kindest part of HIS WRATH...

Personally, what awaits you for your error is more than enough against you - it is no one's call to spit on so confused and lost an individual as you continue to appear to be.

Especially given that one CAN know for SURE whether or not they are saved or lost RIGHT NOW.

This IS a Principle taught IN the Scripture.

1 John 5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

Rom. 5:6-8 towards you.

 

[Sonnet]

Luke 24:19 And he said unto them, What things? And they said unto him, Concerning Jesus of Nazareth, which was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all the people: 24:20 And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. 24:44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me. 24:45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:

This does seem to imply that the time of the resurrection (ie the third day) was revealed in the the OT...though, no doubt, not explicit.

Yeah, but that does not say what Paul says in 1Cor 15:4 and you will not find anything that does....

What say you daqq?

 

[WatchmanOnTheWall]

whats your point?

You must realise that God will judge fairly, which means He will send people to Hell. Do you not believe this?

 

[Sonnet]

Yep - that would be one more of the various witnesses also - that one, an aspect within "the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven" He had often spoken of in parables, figures, types, shadows, and other times, literally.

So tell me, what exactly did you mean in the OP that you are a non-believer?

You never really went into what you'd actually been referring to exactly.

Were you posting as an actual non-believer yourself, or as a role-play, as when one poses a thing from another's perspective and then asks how might others answer said role person's question.

For, for someone who asserts being a non-believer, you appear not only more than merely familiar with the Scripture, but crystal clear on some things (though obviously not on others, which is the case with most every student of the Scripture, if not with all of them).

Thanks, and Romans 5:6-8 towards you.

Thanks.

I remain confused about what I believe in. Certainly, when I began the thread I had less faith.

 

[Sonnet]

Thanks Danoh, deeply appreciated, and I know that you too are very sincere because your love for the Word shows in your posting. As for that "other place" they slew me and cast me forth out of their camp a few times, so although I do drop by there occasionally it is very seldom.




Yeah, I am not saying I disagree with any of those things or your propositions concerning those things, for I know that Messiah is absolutely foretold in the Torah, Prophets, and Writings, even from Genesis 1:1, (all things were created In Reshiyth, In Arche). However, it is my opinion, from how I have been brought to understand the writings, that Paul is not speaking of those things in 1Cor 15:4. We know from Acts 16:4 that he was circulating the declarations from Acts 15, the Letter from the council, to all the congregations where he went: it is therefore very possible that he may also have been circulating one of more of the Gospel accounts at the same time, that is, "that which I also received", (1Cor 15:3, Gal 1:18, Rev 1:1, Gal 1:12 KJV).

Here is yet another quandary-dilemma which this would resolve, (and for me it does).

Galatians 3:1 T/R
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανε τη αληθεια μη πειθεσθαι οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εν υμιν εσταυρωμενος;

Galatians 3:1 W/H
1 ω ανοητοι γαλαται τις υμας εβασκανεν οις κατ οφθαλμους ιησους χριστος προεγραφη εσταυρωμενος

You know what προεγραφη means, right?
I will offer my reading of the shorter version:

"O foolish Galatians, before whose eyes Messiah Yeshua was previously-already-written to have been crucified, who has beguiled you?"

Very interesting.

 

[Sonnet]

She is saying the same thing I am, Sonnet.

At the end, there will be a set of people who had faith and believed and there will a set that did not. The reason God was willing to die was so that those who had faith could be saved. He didn't do it for the those who would hate Him.

I think Jesus did die for those who hate Him...because that, it seems to me, is what we all have done (assuming the truth of scripture). Psalm 14, Roman 3:23.

If He had had reason to believe that no one was going to have faith He wouldn't have done it at all. He'd have just wiped out the whole mess and went on with His life. But He could see that there was and would be a remnant and so chose to die in order to save those who would believe. The point is that He doesn't have a list of special people that He chose to die for and the rest are without hope. He paid a price sufficient for the whole race of mankind and offers forgiveness to all who would put their faith in Him. He only applies the blood to believers because its the believers that God died for in the first place. If someone is not currently in that group, he is invited and free to join it at any time prior to his physical death.

That makes sense, right?

Resting in Him,
Clete

It is difficult for any of us to get a perspective on such as you discuss here (beings in time musing on an entity outside of time).

For me, telling a person that someone (who claims to be God) claims to have died for you to save you...that could be the very thing that induces belief.

I am now unclear that you would do this.