Nonsense - that passage is addressing who that narrative began with condemning - verse 17's Jew.
ECT We are not Israel, but the Body of Christ
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Nonsense - that passage is addressing who that narrative began with condemning - verse 17's Jew.
Jamie Gigliotti
New member
Nonsense to you because it doesn't fit man-made theology.
Don't be so hard on yourself for your man made theology :chuckle:
Act 5:30 The God of our fathers raised up Jesus, whom ye slew and hanged on a tree.
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Madists are not of Israel, so they are still in their sins.
Act 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Nothing has changed.
LA
Act 5:31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
Act 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom God hath given to them that obey him.
Madists are not of Israel, so they are still in their sins.
Act 5:33 When they heard that, they were cut to the heart, and took counsel to slay them.
Nothing has changed.
LA
Interplanner
Well-known member
We should note v31 saying that the purpose for the Prince was the forgiveness of sins and repentance. Not a state, not a theocracy. There is no special grammatical connector; the purpose accomplished by the prince and savior was to be the repentance and forgiveness.
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
SaulToPaul 2
Well-known member
:chuckle:
There are promises God made to literal Israel that have yet to be fulfilled.
As in the Land of Israel, its inhabitants, and its direct descendants.
The BoC encompasses all humanity that covers the globe, astronauts included too. More specifically the BoC was purchased by the payment of debt that occurred with the Word's words "It is finished".
The exact ramifications of this can be debated, and are only revealed to be those of the New Covenant, that actually is a fulfillment of the older covenant to Abraham at this time. It is the covenant of the Friend of God that is bound to Him by Faith. While the Jewish covenant that binds literal Israel is the covenant of the Slave of God, bound by law.
The two are placed at peace with one another by the death of Christ. The mystery arises in Romans.
Romans 11:
The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”;
27 “and this will be my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”
28 As regards the gospel, they are enemies for your sake. But as regards election, they are beloved for the sake of their forefathers.
29 For the gifts and the calling of God are irrevocable.
30 For just as you were at one time disobedient to God but now have received mercy because of their disobedience,
31 so they too have now been disobedient in order that by the mercy shown to you they also may now[d] receive mercy.
....... Verse 29 speaks of those hardened to the gospel still being under promises that are irrevocable.
Verses 28 and 31 state that literal Israel are enemies of the gospel, but as they were an instrument for Gentiles to be shown mercy, so shall Gentiles be an instrument to show them mercy.
The ultimate mystery of the children of faith and the children of law is that the two are said to be at peace, and made one.
Ephesians 2:14
For He is our peace, who made both groups one and tore down the dividing wall of hostility. In His flesh,
This awkward phrasing compared with Romans almost makes the BoC and Literal Israel One, and interchangeable.
If this is coupled with Pauls words about Haagar and Sarah, or the child of human effort and the child of the promise, as well as Paul speaking of the law being a guardian to those without faith, the ultimate plan of salvation takes on a much deeper meaning. To be blunt, we still don't fully know the impact of Christ's death being coupled with His unfulfilled promises to Israel. (And as we know, He is never One to not fulfill His Promises.)
The Israel of God is the elect of the believers of all ages.
The children of God of the coming age are born from their Mother who is of the Heavenly Zion, meaning from Christians.
People have trouble in their mind, when they read Israel in the Bible, and should keep in mind that Christ is the King of Israel and there is none other of His Spirit.
The enemies of God for the elects sake were the unbelievers of the old testament nation of Israel, and you will find that judaism today, while encompassing many races, is still the enemy of the elect, and that most churches of the west, have become as one with them in their love of money, and will try to wipe out the true elect.
LA
God's Truth
New member
That is not true. God gave all promises to Israel…earthy promises and spiiriual.
The old law has vanished, it has disappeared, see Hebrews 8:13.
No one obeys Moses, unless they come to God through Jesus.
Jesus gives us a temple, a high priest, and a Lamb sacrifice.
There is no other way to obey God.
God no longer cares about to whom you are blood related, except that you be related through the blood of Christ shed on the cross, which is about confessing and repenting of your sins. See John 1:13.
God's Truth
New member
The scriptures show each of the promises, the promise of a great nation, the earthly land promises, and the spiritual promises. The spiritual promises are the utmost of importance, the inheritance of the kingdom of God.
See Genesis 12:1-7; 13:14-17; 15:5-21; 17:2-8; 18:18; 22:17-18; 24:7; 26:3-4; 18:4, 13, 14; 35:12; 46:3, 4; Exodus 6:2-8; 12-25; 13:5; 23:31; 32:15; 35:1.
See Genesis 12:1-7; 13:14-17; 15:5-21; 17:2-8; 18:18; 22:17-18; 24:7; 26:3-4; 18:4, 13, 14; 35:12; 46:3, 4; Exodus 6:2-8; 12-25; 13:5; 23:31; 32:15; 35:1.
God's Truth
New member
This is a long post, but for some interested in deep study you will find that it is not too long.
The promises to Abraham were fulfilled. Dispensationalists teach the false doctrine that God did not fulfill the promises He made to Abraham in regards to earthy Israel, and they do not recognize that God already fulfilled the spiritual promises to the spiritual Israel, the church (spiritual Israel).
Premillennialists reject the truth that Israel possessed all the land God promised to them through Abraham. God said that if Israel got all the land promised, then they would have six cities of refuge. We see from the scriptures that this has been fulfilled.
Deuteronomy 19:7-9"Therefore, I command you, saying, 'You shall set aside three cities for yourself.' "If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, just as He has sworn to your fathers, and gives you all the land which He promised to give your fathers— if you carefully observe all this commandment which I command you today, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in His ways always—then you shall add three more cities for yourself, besides these three. "
Joshua 20:7 So they set apart Kedesh in Galilee in the hill country of Naphtali, Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the hill country of Judah.
8 East of the Jordan (on the other side from Jericho) they designated Bezer in the wilderness on the plateau in the tribe of Reuben, Ramoth in Gilead in the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan in the tribe of Manasseh.
9 Any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing among them who killed someone accidentally could flee to these designated cities and not be killed by the avenger of blood prior to standing trial before the assembly.
There is listed the six cities of refuge: Kadesh, Shechem, Hebron, Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan.
God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham.
Joshua 21:43-45 "So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "
Joshua 23:14-15 "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. "
Joshua’s promises fulfilled:
In 2 Samuel 8:3, David defeated Hadadezer, and he went to restore his rule at the Euphrates River.
1 Kings 4:21 And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.
2 Chr 9:26 And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.
Nehemiah 9:8 And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.
Jeremiah 11:5 "in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."
We can see from the scriptures that God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham. Many Christians falsely teach that Israel did not get the earthy land which was promised and that the land in 1948 AD was the fulfilled land promise; which is incorrect because God completed His earthy promises before Jesus came and unbelieving Jews were CUT OFF and bound over to disobedience with the rest of the world and the only promise anyone has is through belief in Jesus Christ.
Since Jesus came all cut off Israelites are BOUND OVER WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, those who are condemned, like the Gentiles already were, and still are, until they come to God through Jesus. All must come to God the same way, through belief and obedience to Jesus Christ; all this BEFORE Jesus comes again, for he comes as a thief in the night---NOT TO BEAR SIN, but to give salvation to those waiting for him, those who know him by faith and obedience before he came the first time.
The promises to Abraham were fulfilled. Dispensationalists teach the false doctrine that God did not fulfill the promises He made to Abraham in regards to earthy Israel, and they do not recognize that God already fulfilled the spiritual promises to the spiritual Israel, the church (spiritual Israel).
Premillennialists reject the truth that Israel possessed all the land God promised to them through Abraham. God said that if Israel got all the land promised, then they would have six cities of refuge. We see from the scriptures that this has been fulfilled.
Deuteronomy 19:7-9"Therefore, I command you, saying, 'You shall set aside three cities for yourself.' "If the LORD your God enlarges your territory, just as He has sworn to your fathers, and gives you all the land which He promised to give your fathers— if you carefully observe all this commandment which I command you today, to love the LORD your God, and to walk in His ways always—then you shall add three more cities for yourself, besides these three. "
Joshua 20:7 So they set apart Kedesh in Galilee in the hill country of Naphtali, Shechem in the hill country of Ephraim, and Kiriath Arba (that is, Hebron) in the hill country of Judah.
8 East of the Jordan (on the other side from Jericho) they designated Bezer in the wilderness on the plateau in the tribe of Reuben, Ramoth in Gilead in the tribe of Gad, and Golan in Bashan in the tribe of Manasseh.
9 Any of the Israelites or any foreigner residing among them who killed someone accidentally could flee to these designated cities and not be killed by the avenger of blood prior to standing trial before the assembly.
There is listed the six cities of refuge: Kadesh, Shechem, Hebron, Bezer, Ramoth, and Golan.
God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham.
Joshua 21:43-45 "So the LORD gave Israel all the land which He had sworn to give to their fathers, and they possessed it and lived in it. And the LORD gave them rest on every side, according to all that He had sworn to their fathers, and no one of all their enemies stood before them; the LORD gave all their enemies into their hand. Not one of the good promises which the LORD had made to the house of Israel failed; all came to pass. "
Joshua 23:14-15 "Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. "It shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. "
Joshua’s promises fulfilled:
In 2 Samuel 8:3, David defeated Hadadezer, and he went to restore his rule at the Euphrates River.
1 Kings 4:21 And Solomon ruled over all the kingdoms from the Euphrates River to the land of the Philistines, as far as the border of Egypt. These countries brought tribute and were Solomon's subjects all his life.
2 Chr 9:26 And he was the ruler over all the kings from the Euphrates River even to the land of the Philistines, and as far as the border of Egypt.
Nehemiah 9:8 And Thou didst find Abraham's heart faithful before Thee, and didst make a covenant with him to give him the land of the Canaanite, of the Hittite and the Amorite, of the Perizzite, the Jebusite, and the Girgashite-- to give it to his descendants. And Thou hast fulfilled Thy promise, for Thou art righteous.
Jeremiah 11:5 "in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day." Then I answered and said, "Amen, O LORD."
We can see from the scriptures that God gave all the earthy land promises to Abraham. Many Christians falsely teach that Israel did not get the earthy land which was promised and that the land in 1948 AD was the fulfilled land promise; which is incorrect because God completed His earthy promises before Jesus came and unbelieving Jews were CUT OFF and bound over to disobedience with the rest of the world and the only promise anyone has is through belief in Jesus Christ.
Since Jesus came all cut off Israelites are BOUND OVER WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD, those who are condemned, like the Gentiles already were, and still are, until they come to God through Jesus. All must come to God the same way, through belief and obedience to Jesus Christ; all this BEFORE Jesus comes again, for he comes as a thief in the night---NOT TO BEAR SIN, but to give salvation to those waiting for him, those who know him by faith and obedience before he came the first time.
God's Truth
New member
The Old Testament is about earthy man and earthy land.
All of God's earthy promises were fulfilled, and proven from the scriptures.
God also fulfilled all the SPIRITUAL promises.
The Spiritual promises are fulfilled as shown to us in the NEW TESTAMENT.
The New Testament is about spiritual things.
Old earthy, new spiritual.
Spiritually fulfilled:
Acts 7:17 "But as the time of the promise was approaching which God
had assured to Abraham, the people increased and multiplied in Egypt"
Rom 4:16-17 For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, "A father of many nations have I made you")
Gal 3:29 if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Gal 4:28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise
All of God's earthy promises were fulfilled, and proven from the scriptures.
God also fulfilled all the SPIRITUAL promises.
The Spiritual promises are fulfilled as shown to us in the NEW TESTAMENT.
The New Testament is about spiritual things.
Old earthy, new spiritual.
Spiritually fulfilled:
Acts 7:17 "But as the time of the promise was approaching which God
had assured to Abraham, the people increased and multiplied in Egypt"
Rom 4:16-17 For this reason it is by faith, that it might be in accordance with grace, in order that the promise may be certain to all the descendants, not only to those who are of the Law, but also to those who are of the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, "A father of many nations have I made you")
Gal 3:29 if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's offspring, heirs according to promise.
Gal 4:28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise
Right Divider
Body part
Gen 13:14-15 (AKJV/PCE)
(13:14) ¶ And the LORD said unto Abram, after that Lot was separated from him, Lift up now thine eyes, and look from the place where thou art northward, and southward, and eastward, and westward: (13:15) For all the land which thou seest, to thee will I give it, and to thy seed for ever.
Has Abram's seed owned the land "for ever"?
Did they still "own the land" when Jesus came?
Do they still "own" it today?
No doubt you'll say "it's all spiritual" at some point.
Isa 60:1-22 (AKJV/PCE)
(60:1) Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of the LORD is risen upon thee. (60:2) For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but the LORD shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee. (60:3) And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. (60:4) Lift up thine eyes round about, and see: all they gather themselves together, they come to thee: thy sons shall come from far, and thy daughters shall be nursed at [thy] side. (60:5) Then thou shalt see, and flow together, and thine heart shall fear, and be enlarged; because the abundance of the sea shall be converted unto thee, the forces of the Gentiles shall come unto thee. (60:6) The multitude of camels shall cover thee, the dromedaries of Midian and Ephah; all they from Sheba shall come: they shall bring gold and incense; and they shall shew forth the praises of the LORD. (60:7) All the flocks of Kedar shall be gathered together unto thee, the rams of Nebaioth shall minister unto thee: they shall come up with acceptance on mine altar, and I will glorify the house of my glory. (60:8) Who [are] these [that] fly as a cloud, and as the doves to their windows? (60:9) Surely the isles shall wait for me, and the ships of Tarshish first, to bring thy sons from far, their silver and their gold with them, unto the name of the LORD thy God, and to the Holy One of Israel, because he hath glorified thee. (60:10) And the sons of strangers shall build up thy walls, and their kings shall minister unto thee: for in my wrath I smote thee, but in my favour have I had mercy on thee. (60:11) Therefore thy gates shall be open continually; they shall not be shut day nor night; that [men] may bring unto thee the forces of the Gentiles, and [that] their kings [may be] brought. (60:12) For the nation and kingdom that will not serve thee shall perish; yea, [those] nations shall be utterly wasted. (60:13) The glory of Lebanon shall come unto thee, the fir tree, the pine tree, and the box together, to beautify the place of my sanctuary; and I will make the place of my feet glorious. (60:14) The sons also of them that afflicted thee shall come bending unto thee; and all they that despised thee shall bow themselves down at the soles of thy feet; and they shall call thee, The city of the LORD, The Zion of the Holy One of Israel. (60:15) Whereas thou hast been forsaken and hated, so that no man went through [thee], I will make thee an eternal excellency, a joy of many generations. (60:16) Thou shalt also suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings: and thou shalt know that I the LORD [am] thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. (60:17) For brass I will bring gold, and for iron I will bring silver, and for wood brass, and for stones iron: I will also make thy officers peace, and thine exactors righteousness. (60:18) Violence shall no more be heard in thy land, wasting nor destruction within thy borders; but thou shalt call thy walls Salvation, and thy gates Praise. (60:19) The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but the LORD shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory. (60:20) Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for the LORD shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended. (60:21) Thy people also [shall be] all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. (60:22) A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I the LORD will hasten it in his time.
I have no doubt that SOMEDAY, this will ALL be fulfilled!
P.S. Note that Isaiah 60 matches perfectly with Rev. 21
God's Truth
New member
You just dismissed ALL THE SCRIPTURES that say God fulfilled all the land promises.
You just ignored them, as if you were blind.
You also missed the part about what is spiritual
The Jews who were blind missed their Messiah for the same reasons when Jesus came the first time. They thought the Messiah would sit on an earthy throne and they would be rulers of this earthy world. The next time Jesus comes it will be too late.
God's Truth
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When Jesus comes again, he will be in the white clouds, it will be the time of the great white throne judgment.
When all have been resurrected and judged, there will be a new earth, and Jesus will then hand over the kingdom to the FATHER.
Jesus will no longer be sitting on a throne at that time...we will be just like him and all living together on the new earth.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
When all have been resurrected and judged, there will be a new earth, and Jesus will then hand over the kingdom to the FATHER.
Jesus will no longer be sitting on a throne at that time...we will be just like him and all living together on the new earth.
1 Corinthians 15:24 Then the end will come, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father after he has destroyed all dominion, authority and power.
Right Divider
Body part
No, I just put them in the proper CONTEXT. Something you haven't the slightest clue about with your "deep" learning.
No, once AGAIN, I'm willing to take ALL of what the Bible says and in its proper CONTEXT.
I know exactly what is spiritual and what is not. You, on the other hand, are clueless.
Irrelevant to owning the land forever. Did they own the land then?
BTW, when did Israel "suck the milk of the Gentiles, and shalt suck the breast of kings"? (Isa 60:16).
God's Truth
New member
The EARTHY LAND PROMISES HAD CONDITIONS.
1. Deut 6:10,15,18-19 Then it shall come about when the LORD your God brings you into the land which He swore to your fathers, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, to give you, great and splendid cities which you did not build...You shall not follow other gods, He will wipe you off the face of the earth... do what is right that you may go in and possess the good land which the LORD swore to {give} your fathers...by driving out all your enemies from before you, as the LORD has spoken.
2. Deut 8:19-20 And it shall come about if you ever forget the LORD your God, and go after other gods and serve them and worship them, I testify against you today that you shall surely perish. Like the nations that the LORD makes to perish before you, so you shall perish; because you would not listen to the voice of the LORD your God.
3. Deut 9:5 It is not for your righteousness or for the uprightness of your heart that you are going to possess their land, but it is because of the wickedness of these nations that the LORD your God is driving them out before you, in order to confirm the oath which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.
4. Deut 30:17-18 But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, I declare to you today that you shall surely perish. You shall not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter and possess it.
5. Josh 23:15 And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He has destroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you.
6. Josh 23:12-16 For if you ever go back and cling to the rest of these nations, these which remain among you, and intermarry with them, so that you associate with them and they with you, know with certainty that the LORD your God will not continue to drive these nations out from before you; but they shall be a snare and a trap to you, and a whip on your sides and thorns in your eyes, until you perish from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. Now behold, today I am going the way of all the earth, and you know in all your hearts and in all your souls that not one word of all the good words which the LORD your God spoke concerning you has failed; all have been fulfilled for you, not one of them has failed. And it shall come about that just as all the good words which the LORD your God spoke to you have come upon you, so the LORD will bring upon you all the threats, until He hasdestroyed you from off this good land which the LORD your God has given you. When you transgress the covenant of the LORD your God, which He commanded you, and go and serve other gods, and bow down to them, then the anger of the LORD will burn against you, and you shall perish quickly from off the good land which He has given you.
7. Jer 18:1-10 ...the vessel that he was making of clay was spoiled in the hand of the potter; so he remade it into another vessel, as it pleased the potter to make... Can I not, O house of Israel, deal with you as this potter does? declares the LORD. Behold, like the clay in the potter's hand, so are you in My hand, O house of Israel...Or at another moment I might speak concerning a nation or concerning a kingdom to build up or to plant it; if it does evil in My sight by not obeying My voice, then I will think better of the good with which I had promised to bless it.
8. Jer 19:10-11 Then you are to break the jar in the sight of the men who accompany you and say to them, `Thus says the LORD of hosts, Just so shall I break this people and this city, even as one breaks a potter's vessel, which cannot again be repaired...
Right Divider
Body part
Most of those verses to not even refer to the LAND. You like to think that you're connecting things when you're not.
Gen 15:18-21 (AKJV/PCE)
(15:18) In the same day the LORD made a covenant with Abram, saying, Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the river Euphrates: (15:19) The Kenites, and the Kenizzites, and the Kadmonites, (15:20) And the Hittites, and the Perizzites, and the Rephaims, (15:21) And the Amorites, and the Canaanites, and the Girgashites, and the Jebusites.
You are the one "adding conditions" and not the LORD.