ECT Water Baptism Not For Today

dodge

New member
No.



It was all for Israel, though what is contained in Mt-Jn as GOD's principles can be of benefit to anyone.



Are you then saying that some of us are claiming baptism was done away before the baptism of the Lord Jesus and Paul's baptism? I don't know anyone who claims that.




They were both required of Israel, so they are related.


.

He certainly gave me rest.




Paul/the Scriptures draw a distinction between this:

Rom 15:8 Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers:


and this:

Rom 15:15 Nevertheless, brethren, I have written the more boldly unto you in some sort, as putting you in mind, because of the grace that is given to me of God,
Rom 15:16 That I should be the minister of Jesus Christ to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of God, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost.

Steko, it is obvious from scripture that others besides Paul were preaching the same gospel as Paul based on the following:

Rom 15:20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
I agree with you except at the point of when it began. Verse 13 says by the blood of Christ, that's when it began.

It was provided for at the cross certainly, but Israel's favored nation status continued into the transitional period of Acts and it was only after the stoning of Stephen and GOD's setting aside the nation of Israel as GOD's channel of blessing that the gentiles began to be saved and the BOC formed of Jew and Gentile with equal status.

In the times past, the Jews were under the law and the Gentiles were without the law. Christ's sacrifice ended the law for the Jews and opened the door for the Gentiles.

The believing Jews continued in the law after the resurrection and no where do we find Christ commanding them to stop.

Thru Christ's forgiveness of Israel from the cross, the religious hierarchy was allowed to continue for a space with the anticipation of their repentance.... which they refused in finality at the stoning of Stephen.

Luk 13:6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
Luk 13:7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
Luk 13:8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
Luk 13:9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.


Eph. 2:14 For He Himself is our peace, who made both groups into one and broke down the barrier of the dividing wall, 15 by abolishing in His flesh the enmity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace, 16 and might reconcile them both in one body to God through the cross, by it having put to death the enmity.

The addition of the word 'groups' turns that particular translation into an imposed commentary/opinion. The word 'groups' is not in the text.

Eph 2:14 For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;


In the BOC, individuals from 'both groups' are made one in a new creation with neither having seniority.
Paul is not saying that national Israel and the nations are made into one entity.
National Israel was in the state of decline, was blinded in part and set aside as Christ's mystery revelation through Paul of a new program came into being.

How did those on Pentecost have their sins forgiven and receive the Holy Spirit? The old covenant, the new covenant or something else?

Peter's message at Israel's Shavuot/Pentecost was exclusively to Jews and post-cross by the way, as were his speeches afterward until 7-9 years later at Cornelius' house. 'To the Jew first' had a basis in prophecy for the nation and continued until the revelations given to Paul concerning the new program in the 'but now' period....of which we are still in 'until the fullness of the gentiles be fulfilled', then the final believing remnant called Israel will be saved at Christ's second coming.

The BOC is not Israel and Israel is not the BOC.

Act 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
Act 2:37 Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?
Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
Steko, it is obvious from scripture that others besides Paul were preaching the same gospel as Paul based on the following:

Rom 15:20
Yea, so have I strived to preach the gospel, not where Christ was named, lest I should build upon another man's foundation:

If it was 'another's foundation' then it wasn't necessarily the exact same message.

1Co 3:10 According to the grace of God which is given unto me, as a wise masterbuilder, I have laid the foundation, and another buildeth thereon. But let every man take heed how he buildeth thereupon.
1Co 3:11 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ.


There was a foundation that Paul laid and it was built up on the special revelation of the mystery which the ascended Lord revealed uniquely to him.

The Lord Jesus Christ is the primary foundation for both but it appears obvious to me that what Peter and the eleven were preaching to the Jews exclusively was a gospel according to prophecy 'spoken by Israel's prophets since the world began' and Paul was preaching a gospel which was uniquely suited to Jew and Gentile without the priority of the one over the other and was a gospel of pure grace according to the 'mystery revealed' exclusively to Paul from the ascended Lord and 'hidden in GOD since before the world began'.

There are differences and for me to ignore them and just blend everything together would be counterintuitive.
 

jamie

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LIFETIME MEMBER
The believing Jews continued in the law after the resurrection and no where do we find Christ commanding them to stop.

Not scriptural. Only Paul offered sacrifices, there is no record of the Twelve doing so.
 

jamie

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The lack of record doesn't prove anything.

And for some Acts 15 doesn't prove anything either.

Peter's gospel was a gospel of grace.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." (Peter)

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law' — to whom we gave no such commandment..." (Apostles and elders)
 

steko

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LIFETIME MEMBER
And for some Acts 15 doesn't prove anything either.

Yeah, I know.



Peter's gospel was a gospel of grace.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." (Peter)

Twenty years after Pentecost/Shavuot and not too long after being rebuked by Paul.

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law' — to whom we gave no such commandment..." (Apostles and elders)

....which took place after Paul's agreement with the twelve in Galatians 2.

Before that we find Peter and the eleven keeping the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost.
Peter and John having no money in Acts 3 per Matthew 10.
Peter resisting the initial command concerning unclean foods and reluctance to go to the home of a Gentile which we he got there he declared it to be unlawful.
James declaring the multitude of Jewish believers who were zealous of the law.
The scattered Jewish believers going to Jews only.
And Christ's declaration in Matthew 5 concerning the law which He never rescinded:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In Acts 15, the Jewish believers declared the believing Gentiles exempt from the law except for certain immoral and offensive activities.
The Jewish believers said nothing about themselves being exempt from the law.

Only in the writings of Paul do we find the phrase, 'not under the law but under grace'.

Acts is a historical narrative of the transition from the Messianic Davidic earthly Kingdom at hand being offered to the nation of Israel on the condition of their repentance, to the fall of Israel at the stoning of Stephen and the diminishing of the nation, then the raising up of the Apostle to the nations with the gospel of the grace of GOD revealed by the ascended Christ from heaven, and closing with Paul's final declaration in Acts 28 regarding Israel's blindness and his mission to the nations/gentiles, explained in Ro 11.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Yeah, I know.





Twenty years after Pentecost/Shavuot and not too long after being rebuked by Paul.



....which took place after Paul's agreement with the twelve in Galatians 2.

Before that we find Peter and the eleven keeping the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost.
Peter and John having no money in Acts 3 per Matthew 10.
Peter resisting the initial command concerning unclean foods and reluctance to go to the home of a Gentile which we he got there he declared it to be unlawful.
James declaring the multitude of Jewish believers who were zealous of the law.
The scattered Jewish believers going to Jews only.
And Christ's declaration in Matthew 5 concerning the law which He never rescinded:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In Acts 15, the Jewish believers declared the believing Gentiles exempt from the law except for certain immoral and offensive activities.
The Jewish believers said nothing about themselves being exempt from the law.

Only in the writings of Paul do we find the phrase, 'not under the law but under grace'.

Acts is a historical narrative of the transition from the Messianic Davidic earthly Kingdom at hand being offered to the nation of Israel on the condition of their repentance, to the fall of Israel at the stoning of Stephen and the diminishing of the nation, then the raising up of the Apostle to the nations with the gospel of the grace of GOD revealed by the ascended Christ from heaven, and closing with Paul's final declaration in Acts 28 regarding Israel's blindness and his mission to the nations/gentiles, explained in Ro 11.

:first:

Thank you, Steko, it helps to see it lined out like that.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Well, it's stuff I teach repeatedly on Sunday nights for three to four hours, so it sorta' gets ingrained.

It takes a lot of repetition for me to get things nailed down and then..... I'm still lacking.

Well, I thank the Lord we have you here on TOL. Blessings to you, dear brother.
 

God's Truth

New member
In the first century the coming of the King and the Kingdom was at hand. John the Baptist was sent out to prepare the people for the coming of the King:

"In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight" (Mt.3:1-3).​

It was necessary for the people to have a change of mind in regard to their sinful life style in order "make ready a people prepared for the Lord" so that they "might serve Him...in holiness and righteousness" (Lk.1:17,74-75).

Those who submitted to the rite of water baptism were acknowledging their sinful lifestyle and pledging to change their way of life in order that they might serve the Lord. In exchange, they were given the knowledge that their past sins were forgiven and that they were beginning their service for the Lord with a clean slate.

However, since the people rejected their promised King His return to set up His Kingdom has been postponed and it will not be until He returns to the earth when the Kingdom will be at hand:

"And then shall they see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh. And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand. So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand"
(Lk.21:27-31).​

At the present time we are not waiting for the Lord Jesus to return to the earth. Before that can possibly happen certain events must first take place, such as the setting up of the abomination of desolation in the holy place (Mt.24:15). Therefore, the purpose of water baptism, to prepare a people for the return of the Lord Jesus, is no longer in order.

Jesus didn't postpone anything, as if he didn't know that the Jews would reject him.
 

God's Truth

New member
Many say water baptism is not for today. In my understanding, the purpose of water baptism then still makes it applicable today. So I would like to consider what you understand water baptism accomplished or its purpose in the 1st century. If you would, please include the scriptures that lead you to that conclusion. Obviously, without scriptures it will be just an opinion.

Thanks
John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80).

We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ to live in our heart.

Though we can confess and repent without water, water baptism is a ceremony of the promise to God to die to sin and live for Jesus.

1 Peter 3:21 and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a clear conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ,
 

Danoh

New member
And for some Acts 15 doesn't prove anything either.

Peter's gospel was a gospel of grace.

"But we believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ we shall be saved in the same manner as they." (Peter)

"Since we have heard that some who went out from us have troubled you with words, unsettling your souls, saying, 'You must be circumcised and keep the law' — to whom we gave no such commandment..." (Apostles and elders)

Not true.

That grace within Peter's aspect of the gospel of Christ was a Prophesied Grace that concerned Israel: that promised THEM said Prophesied Grace would one day enable THEM to keep THEIR God-given Law through Moses.

Ezekiel 11:17 Therefore say, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even gather you from the people, and assemble you out of the countries where ye have been scattered, and I will give you the land of Israel. 11:18 And they shall come thither, and they shall take away all the detestable things thereof and all the abominations thereof from thence. 11:19 And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and I will take the stony heart out of their flesh, and will give them an heart of flesh: 11:20 That they may walk in my statutes, and keep mine ordinances, and do them: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God.

Spoiler

Some of the following is a bit advanced.

Even many who assert they hold to MAD; are unaware of it and and as result; end up at other ideas.

There were the Believing remnant of Israel: who had believed before God concluded the rest in Unbelief (in other words; having continued in the UNcircumcision of heart of their fathers).

Said Believing remnant were sealed by God just before He concluded the rest in unbelief, and cut them (those in unbelief) off from their access to their blessing as Israelites.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

These Israelites in Unbelief were now UNcircumcision; under sin, or no better off then the Gentiles - for their having refused to believe both the assertion of Jesus and the Twelve, that He was the very Chris the Law and the Prophets did say should come.

Romans 9:32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

In contrast were their Believing Remnant...

Romans 10:19 But I say, Did not Israel know? First Moses saith, I will provoke you to jealousy by them that are no people, and by a foolish nation I will anger you. 10:20 But Esaias is very bold, and saith, I was found of them that sought me not; I was made manifest unto them that asked not after me. 10:21 But to Israel he saith, All day long I have stretched forth my hands unto a disobedient and gainsaying people.

They were these and their converts...

John 1:45 Philip findeth Nathanael, and saith unto him, We have found him, of whom Moses in the law, and the prophets, did write, Jesus of Nazareth, the son of Joseph.

1:49 Nathanael answered and saith unto him, Rabbi, thou art the Son of God; thou art the King of Israel.

1:51 And he saith unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Hereafter ye shall see heaven open, and the angels of God ascending and descending upon the Son of man.

Said Believing Remnant not only believed the Law and the Prophets that Jesus was the Christ, but continued to keep the Law.

Albeit, no longer FOR righteousness, but because of THEIR Prophesied Grace.

Which Promised they would one day be able to keep the Law, because the Law is their Identity as the Israel of God in the site of the nations.

Deuteronomy 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and judgments, even as the LORD my God commanded me, that ye should do so in the land whither ye go to possess it. 4:6 Keep therefore and do them; for this is your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation is a wise and understanding people. 4:7 For what nation is there so great, who hath God so nigh unto them, as the LORD our God is in all things that we call upon him for? 4:8 And what nation is there so great, that hath statutes and judgments so righteous as all this law, which I set before you this day?

Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: 31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more. 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name: 31:36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever. 31:37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.

This was why they had all been able to be on the same page in all things, in early Acts - because "as many as recieved Him gave He power to become the sons of God" John 1:12, He had called that nation to be, when He gave them their Law as their "wisdom in the sight of the nations."

In contrast, the rest had been of this type...

John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. 5:44 How can ye believe, which receive honour one of another, and seek not the honour that cometh from God only? 5:45 Do not think that I will accuse you to the Father: there is one that accuseth you, even Moses, in whom ye trust. 5:46 For had ye believed Moses, ye would have believed me: for he wrote of me. 5:47 But if ye believe not his writings, how shall ye believe my words?

With the raising up of Paul; said lost Jews were given access once more, but to a blessing now, that was absent of Israel's Believing Remnant's Promises, now on hold, til the fullness of what was now a Gentile blessing be come in, that God was now offering both lost Jews and Gentiles, on a level.play field.

Romans 3:9 What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 3:10 As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 3:11 There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.

These Jews were not of Israel's Believing Remnant, as said remnant had been sealed by God; their Promises put on hold; the rest cut off from that.

In the following, we see these various kinds of Israelites...

1- James and those with him as the Israel of God (Believing Remnant under the Law);

2 - the Apostle Paul as the first Israelite in UNcircumcision who went from said status to being the first member of God's New Creature: the Body of Christ; and those Israelites saved after Paul and whom he was teaching were not under the Law;

3- and those Israelites who remained in Unbelief and who now opposed Paul..,

Acts 21:17 And when we were come to Jerusalem, the brethren received us gladly. 21:18 And the day following Paul went in with us unto James; and all the elders were present. 21:19 And when he had saluted them, he declared particularly what things God had wrought among the Gentiles by his ministry. 21:20 And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law: 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs. 21:22 What is it therefore? the multitude must needs come together: for they will hear that thou art come. 21:23 Do therefore this that we say to thee: We have four men which have a vow on them; 21:24 Them take, and purify thyself with them, and be at charges with them, that they may shave their heads: and all may know that those things, whereof they were informed concerning thee, are nothing; but that thou thyself also walkest orderly, and keepest the law. 21:25 As touching the Gentiles which believe, we have written and concluded that they observe no such thing, save only that they keep themselves from things offered to idols, and from blood, and from strangled, and from fornication. 21:26 Then Paul took the men, and the next day purifying himself with them entered into the temple, to signify the accomplishment of the days of purification, until that an offering should be offered for every one of them.

You see this here, by the way?

Acts 21:21 And they are informed of thee, that thou teachest all the Jews which are among the Gentiles to forsake Moses, saying that they ought not to circumcise their children, neither to walk after the customs.

That is this kind of thing here...

Romans 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
 

Danoh

New member
Well, it's stuff I teach repeatedly on Sunday nights for three to four hours, so it sorta' gets ingrained.

It takes a lot of repetition for me to get things nailed down and then..... I'm still lacking.

Not to worry, bro - I'll gladly straighten you out :chuckle:

And hopefully: visa-versa :D

Proverbs 27:17; Eph. 4:16 :)
 

Danoh

New member
Yeah, I know.





Twenty years after Pentecost/Shavuot and not too long after being rebuked by Paul.



....which took place after Paul's agreement with the twelve in Galatians 2.

Before that we find Peter and the eleven keeping the feast of Shavuot/Pentecost.
Peter and John having no money in Acts 3 per Matthew 10.
Peter resisting the initial command concerning unclean foods and reluctance to go to the home of a Gentile which we he got there he declared it to be unlawful.
James declaring the multitude of Jewish believers who were zealous of the law.
The scattered Jewish believers going to Jews only.
And Christ's declaration in Matthew 5 concerning the law which He never rescinded:

Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.


In Acts 15, the Jewish believers declared the believing Gentiles exempt from the law except for certain immoral and offensive activities.
The Jewish believers said nothing about themselves being exempt from the law.

Only in the writings of Paul do we find the phrase, 'not under the law but under grace'.

Acts is a historical narrative of the transition from the Messianic Davidic earthly Kingdom at hand being offered to the nation of Israel on the condition of their repentance, to the fall of Israel at the stoning of Stephen and the diminishing of the nation, then the raising up of the Apostle to the nations with the gospel of the grace of GOD revealed by the ascended Christ from heaven, and closing with Paul's final declaration in Acts 28 regarding Israel's blindness and his mission to the nations/gentiles, explained in Ro 11.

Yep - their fall was definitely in Acts 7; not in Acts 28.

As was their temporary casting away as a nation, 1 Thess 2; 2 Thess. 2.

Now all they had was access through Paul, Gal. 1; Rom. 11.

It's rather simple to keep things where they go; once Acts 7 is properly understood.

Acts 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye. 7:52 Which of the prophets have not your fathers persecuted? and they have slain them which shewed before of the coming of the Just One; of whom ye have been now the betrayers and murderers: 7:53 Who have received the law by the disposition of angels, and have not kept it.

Romans 2:24 For the name of God is blasphemed among the Gentiles through you, as it is written. 2:25 For circumcision verily profiteth, if thou keep the law: but if thou be a breaker of the law, thy circumcision is made uncircumcision.

1 Thessalonians 2:15 Who both killed the Lord Jesus, and their own prophets, and have persecuted us; and they please not God, and are contrary to all men: 2:16 Forbidding us to speak to the Gentiles that they might be saved, to fill up their sins alway: for the wrath is come upon them to the uttermost.

Every detail of all the rest, comes from that...
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Jesus didn't postpone anything, as if he didn't know that the Jews would reject him.

Act 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?
Act 1:7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power.



Act 3:12 ...Ye men of Israel,
Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;
Act 3:20 And he shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:
Act 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.


1Th 5:1 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
1Th 5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night


Postponed!
 
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