Trinity Proof Scriptures

[Dartman]

We Trinitarians believe there is only one God. He is Father, Son, Holy Spirit, three Persons.

The Father is the only true God.
The Son is the only true God.
The Holy Spirit is the only true God.


...

What a convoluted mess! trinitarians take 90% pagan philosophy, and 10% twisted verses, and come up with a completely impossible theory. Only SLIGHTLY worse is oneness!

I was WELL aware of your confusion, and didn't want to waste more time than it took to point out your inconsistencies.

You have stated two points that are clearly stated in the Scriptures: "There is only one God", and "The Father is the only true God".

You have stated three gross untruths, which contradict the two truths you admit, (no matter how much you squeal in protest).... and those three points have ZERO verses that State, Explain or Preach those tenets unique to trinity/oneness theories.

Jesus warned the Church regarding "false Christs".
Paul warned the Church regarding "another Jesus", and instructed us to safeguard our faith by sticking strictly to the "Jesus" THEY PREACHED!

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.


There are ZERO examples in the Scripture of ANY apostle explaining to ANY audience a trinitarian Jesus!!
There are MANY examples of the apostles explaining the Jesus of Nazareth, the descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary..... a man ordained by his God, and EXALTED by his God, GIVEN power and authority by his God.

 

[Right Divider]

Three distinct Persons, all referred to as God, and yet only one God, beside Whom there is no other.

So simple that a child can understand it.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings musterion and Right Divider,

Three distinct Persons, all referred to as God, and yet only one God, beside Whom there is no other.

So simple that a child can understand it.

As a child I was taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As I grew into a teenager and beyond, I became aware of an obscure teaching called the Trinity. I did not then, nor even now many years later, have any understanding of such an obscure and contradictory teaching as the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[way 2 go]

I believe you have misunderstood they purpose of this thread.

I didn't create it to debate every trinity or anti trinity scripture.

I am basically asking trinitarians and non trinitarians which scriptures they think shouldn't be used in defense of the trinity.

Please let me know you thoughts on the verses I stated rather that just posting dozens of scriptures.

you said "I am not a trinitarian, so don't believe Jesus is YHWH."

Deu 6:4 Hear, O Israel, Jehovah our God is one Jehovah.

talking about the trinity with you is pointless
you have the cart before the horse first you need to recognize Jesus as God hence all the verses I quoted.

• Do not be “ashamed of Me” Mk. 8:38; Lk. 9:26 nor "My words"
• “love Me” 5x Jn. 14:15, 21, 23?24, 28
• Do not reject “Me” Lk. 10:16; Jn. 12:48
• “He who is not with Me is against Me” Lk. 11:23
• Love Me “more than” your family members Mt. 10:37; [Lk. 14:26]
• “I… have loved you” Jn. 15:9, 12
• Be “worthy of Me” Mt. 10:37?38
• “Come to Me” 5x Mt. 11:28; Lk. 6:47; Jn. 5:40; 6:35; 7:37
• “I will give you rest” Mt. 11:28
• “For My yoke is easy and My burden is light” Mt. 11:30
• I am “greater than the temple” “than Jonah” “than Solomon” Mt. 12:6, 41?42
• I am “Lord even of the Sabbath” Mt. 12:8; Mk. 2:28; Lk. 6:5 [Lord of God's Ten Commandments]
• Thus He says keep “My commandments” 4x Jn. 14:15, 21; 15:10, 12

 

[genuineoriginal]

Why you subtil(Genesis 3:1 KJV), snake, hypocrite....That is slick, real slick....As slick as a viper, slithering down a drain pipe. "resorting to slandering the other to build ourselves up in our own eyes," you cry, in outrage, do you, punk?

Vs.



Now, which side of your face, do you want slapped, actress/actor? Well?

Save it. And get saved.

My memory seems to be a bit short lately.
Can you remind me of whether you have ever responded to one of my posts without acting like an ignorant troll?

 

[Aimiel]

My apologise Aimel. You are correct that only asserted the meaning of the text, and didn't provide evidence.
It just that in my experience with most decussions I have heard with trinitarians this scripture has been brought up, then debunked so many times, that I thought that most would agree that it is not talking about Jesus and the Father being One in being.

I am assuming you would agree with using this text then??

Allow me to clarify why this could in no way be a trinity proof scripture.

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one.”

A Greek word used here for 'one' (hen). So what does this 'one' mean? We can either assume it means oneness of being or oneness in unity. These are our two options. Read the surrounding verses and you'll see the context doesn't reveal which one it should be. Which is correct then?

Fortunately this isn't the only time Jesus uses this term.

John 17:21- 22:  so that they may all be one, just as you, Father, are in union with me and I am in union with you, that they also may be in union with us, so that the world may believe that you sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one

Here Jesus again describes himself as being 'one' with God once more. It is exactly the same Greek word used for 'one' each time (hen). Here Jesus clearly states what he means when he uses this term. UNITY. He even makes a request that his followers be 'one' in the same way that he and the Father are 'one'.
This can be oneness of being as his followers can't have a oneness of being with God or each other. This would make no literally no sense

As you can see I do have an argument, so in light of this as a trinitarian would you agree that John 10:30 is clearly taken out of context when used as a proof scripture? Or would you continue to use it?

Also you never mentioned 1 John 5:7. Would you agree this shouldn't be used?

Yes, spurious texts can be discarded but I still believe that Jesus is One in EVERY way that can be imagined, in light of ALL The Holy Scriptures saying such. He is Mighty God, Everlasting Father and Prince of Peace, since The Fullness of The Godhead dwells in Him, bodily.

 

[Aimiel]

There is a really good reason EVERYONE forgets that one! I think very few trinitarians consider this stretch to be viable "evidence".

I'll never forget it. I can feel the loathing of the hypocrites when Pilate left the sign up there.

 

[Aimiel]

1)It doesn't say "being" in the verse at all. So, I'm guessing you actually meant, "you didn't say WHY it doesn't mean they're only one being".
2) MANY Scriptures prove they are NOT one being.
3) Jesus himself explains, ALL believers are one, EVEN AS Jesus and his God are one.

I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right? Sorry, but there's WAY TOO MANY Scriptures that prove He is God, in The Flesh. :nono:

 

[Dartman]

1)It doesn't say "being" in the verse at all. So, I'm guessing you actually meant, "you didn't say WHY it doesn't mean they're only one being".
2) MANY Scriptures prove they are NOT one being.
3) Jesus himself explains, ALL believers are one, EVEN AS Jesus and his God are one.

I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right? Sorry, but there's WAY TOO MANY Scriptures that prove He is God, in The Flesh. :nono:

Well, let's work on it one point at a time ...
John 10:30 does not include the word "being", correct?

 

[Aimiel]

Well, let's work on it one point at a time ...
John 10:30 does not include the word "being", correct?

I don't think it does, do you? It doesn't mean that they're one company or one institution or one country or one corporation, does it? He meant that they are One and the Same; I take it to mean: Being. If you take it another way, I can understand that, since you're obviously ignoring the over-running theme of the New Testament.

 

[Aimiel]

Is it just me or do non-Trinitarians just ignore much of the New Testament? :idunno:

 

[musterion]

Your yellow wheel chart uses these verses about God being the only Saviour:

Hosea 13:4 Yet I am the Lord thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me. Isaiah 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. Isaiah 43:11 I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.​

If you rely upon only those verses about God being the only Saviour, it looks like 1 John 4:14 is speaking about God alone is both the Father and the Son because the Son is the Saviour of the world.

1 John 4:14 14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.​

The problem is that your chart completely ignores these verses:

2 Kings 13:5 (And the Lord gave Israel a saviour, so that they went out from under the hand of the Syrians: and the children of Israel dwelt in their tents, as beforetime. Nehemiah 9:27 Therefore thou deliveredst them into the hand of their enemies, who vexed them: and in the time of their trouble, when they cried unto thee, thou heardest them from heaven; and according to thy manifold mercies thou gavest them saviours, who saved them out of the hand of their enemies. Isaiah 19:20 And it shall be for a sign and for a witness unto the Lord of hosts in the land of Egypt: for they shall cry unto the Lord because of the oppressors, and he shall send them a saviour, and a great one, and he shall deliver them.​

Unless you want to argue that the saviours that God sent in 2 Kings 13:5, Nehemiah 9:27, and Isaiah 19:20 are God Himself, you open up the interpretation of 1 John 4:14 to the natural interpretation that God is the Father and that God sent another being, the Son, to be the Saviour of the world instead of the tortured Trinitarian interpretation that the Father and the Son are the same being because the Father is the only Saviour and the Son is also the Saviour.

You complicate it for no good reason.

a. Christ and God are both called the Savior.

b. There is only one Savior, not two.

c. There is only one God, not two.

Christ, therefore, is God.

That's what the Bible shows us. Either you'll accept it all as true or you must reject the Bible.

Believe it or don't.

 

[musterion]

Greetings musterion and Right Divider, As a child I was taught that there is One God the Father and that our Lord Jesus Christ is the Son of God. As I grew into a teenager and beyond, I became aware of an obscure teaching called the Trinity. I did not then, nor even now many years later, have any understanding of such an obscure and contradictory teaching as the Trinity.

Kind regards
Trevor

Feel free to post when you have a point.

 

[Aimiel]

Feel free to post when you have a point.

:rotfl:

 

[clefty]

So simple that a child can understand it.

A child of Yah does understand the hierarchy as He is the Father...because children of Yah have kept the fifth commandment of honoring earthly fathers as NOT being equal to them...certainly not above those beloved fathers...

His child knows He as Father actually has a name...that His Son also has a name...but His Holy Spirit does not...(there are other spirits up there too...also holy...)

His child also knows His Son was only begotten which means there was a time prior when He was NOT begotten...

His child also knows only one Son is the only BEGOTTEN Son and not His only Son...He was the only begotten Son because His other sons were created or born to be reborn as sons of His...

His child also knows that His Son claims us as His brothers since we obey the will of His Father...we of course are NOT sons of the Son...but of the Father

 

[JudgeRightly]

What a convoluted mess! trinitarians take 90% pagan philosophy,

Please specify what I have said that comes from pagan philosophy.

Otherwise, retract your false claim.

and 10% twisted verses,

Please specify which verses I have twisted instead of plainly reading.

Otherwise, retract your false claim.

and come up with a completely impossible theory.

This is an argument from incredulity.

Care to make an actual argument?

Only SLIGHTLY worse is oneness!

We're not talking about one-ness. We're talking about the trinity.

Stop trying to poison the well.

I was WELL aware of your confusion, and didn't want to waste more time than it took to point out your inconsistencies.

If I'm being inconsistent, then I would prefer you point it out. That's how discussions on such matters work.

You have stated two points that are clearly stated in the Scriptures: "There is only one God", and "The Father is the only true God".

And?

You have stated three gross untruths,

Saying they are untrue doesn't make them so.

which contradict the two truths you admit,

In what way?

Please explain.

My position is that God is one Being (one WHAT) and three Persons (three WHOs), whereas He made man one being (WHAT) and one person (WHO).

The Father is a Person.
The Son is a Person.
The Holy Spirit is a Person.

Yet, those three Persons are one Being.

One God. Three Persons. Those three Persons are coequally God.

Look, if you're going to argue that my position contradicts itself, then you need to show how it contradicts itself from the perspective of my position, not how it contradicts itself from the perspective of your position, because our positions obviously contradict one another, and saying that mine is wrong because it contradicts yours is just begging the question.

From my position, saying that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are the only true God does not contradict itself, because it is foundational to my position. I and the other Trinitarians on this thread have shown you plenty of verses and very few, if any, sources other than the Bible to defend our position, yet you have provided no verses with which I disagree.

(no matter how much you squeal in protest)....[/QUOTE

If you're going to make accusations, I expect you to back them up by highlighting your evidence in my post by excerpting them from my post by using the quote tags.

Otherwise, stop with the false accusations.

and those three points have ZERO verses that State, Explain or Preach those tenets unique to trinity

Aside from this being an argument from silence, a logical fallacy...

As a whole, all of the verses that W2G posted at the beginning of the thread show Jesus to be God.

AMR has also provided many verses that show how each of the three Persons are shown to be God throughout scripture.

Musty has also provided verses that support the trinity position.

So, in addition to your argument being fallacious, it's also false, as there ARE verses that support those "tenets."

/oneness theories.

Again, this is a thread specifically on the trinity. You don't have to mention oneness here.

Jesus warned the Church regarding "false Christs".

He also gave the law that says "do not bear false witness," which is what you're doing.

Paul warned the Church regarding "another Jesus", and instructed us to safeguard our faith by sticking strictly to the "Jesus" THEY PREACHED!

:think:

"Do not bear false witness."

2 Cor 11:3-4 But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

Good scripture. :thumb:

There are ZERO examples in the Scripture of ANY apostle explaining to ANY audience a trinitarian Jesus!!

Straw man.

We don't claim Jesus is triune.

Remember what I said above?

If you're going to argue that my position is contradictory, you need to do it from the perspective of my position, because doing it from yours doesn't get us anywhere.

In other words, don't make straw man arguments.

There are MANY examples of the apostles explaining the Jesus of Nazareth, the descendant of Adam and Eve, Abraham, Judah, David and Mary..... a man ordained by his God, and EXALTED by his God, GIVEN power and authority by his God.

Which does not contradict our position.

Because our position is more than just "Jesus is God"

It's also "Jesus became a Man, and as a Man, His Father was His God."

This is why I said to learn our position before you try to make arguments against it, because it seems that you have no idea what we teach, and as such, how could you ever hope to argue against a position if you don't know what that position teaches?

 

[Dartman]

Please specify what I have said that comes from pagan philosophy.

1) I said "trinitarians", I didn't say "you".
2) as the rest of your post illustrates, you accept the notion of three persons in one Being, which is pure pagan fiction. Not ONE SINGLE VERSE states, explains or preaches this nonsense.
3) there are SEVERAL concepts derived from purely pagan sources;
A)the definition of "logos" as in Greek philosophy and theology, the divine reason implicit in the cosmos, ordering it and giving it form and meaning.
B)the definition of "spirit", which pagan superstition defines as some kind of "immaterial, yet intelligent, being"
C) the notion of being alive DURING death, which is in almost EVERY religion on the planet.... except the true Church.

Please specify which verses I have twisted instead of plainly reading.

Every verse we have discussed so far.

This is an argument from incredulity.

ANY extraordinary claim, must provide extraordinary evidence. The trinity has NONE.

We're not talking about one-ness. We're talking about the trinity.

You aren't, I am.
When there are similarities, I am going to point that out. We two are not the only ones reading here.

If I'm being inconsistent, then I would prefer you point it out. That's how discussions on such matters work.

Go back and re-read our posts. I have pointed it out in every reply to you.

 

[genuineoriginal]

I'd like to see your 'proof' Scriptures; although, you do know that you cannot prove a negative, right?

That sounds familiar:

Trinitarian:Prove that the God is not a Trinity.

Non-Trinitarian: You can't prove a negative.

 

[genuineoriginal]

Is it just me or do non-Trinitarians just ignore much of the New Testament? :idunno:

Trinitarians ignore more of the New Testament than non-Trinitarians do.

 

[clefty]

Trinitarians ignore more of the New Testament than non-Trinitarians do.

You mean like this one?

https://biblehub.com/text/revelation/1-6.htm