Oh no... it's Sozo
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I read the Bible. You?
toldailytopic: Legalism: what is it? And how do you deal with it?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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andyc
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He's a gnostic.
You'll find a lot of people on TOL who teach salvation by knowledge alone. His version is 'replacement theology'. He believes that we have to mentally accept how that we have literally died to sin, and therefore sin becomes irrelevant to a Christian. He doesn't understand experientially what it means to be born again, and doesn't want to know.
He would rather condemn people to hell than try to understand the gospel.
Oh no... it's Sozo
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andyc is full of crap. I am not a gnostic. If I'm a gnostic andyc is a child molester, and every time he calls me a "gnostic" I will refer to him as a child molester.
Go to hell, you pervert. You have no idea what replacement theology is, and that I am absolute opposed to replacement theology (the church replaces Israel).
You are a moron and a child molester.
Krsto
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Yeah, me too. So you are alone in your beliefs?
Oh no... it's Sozo
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Not hardly. First there is the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then Paul the apostle, and several other people who have not been seduced by the leaven of the Pharisees and Judaizers over the last 2000 years.
Krsto
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Anybody in particular that has written something about it so I can take a look at it and see if there isn't something there I might need to know?
andyc
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My mistake...."exchanged life" is what I meant.
Oh no... it's Sozo
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Paul the apostle.
If you are looking for some current authors who have elaborated in one way or another...
Hudson Taylor
Major Ian Thomas
Malcolm Smith
Steve McVey
Bob George
Watchman Nee
Charles Stanley
David Needham
Peter Gilquist
Andrew Farley - has a great new book called The Naked Gospel
Joseph Prince
Andrew Wommack
Clifton Coulter
to name a few.
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It's what you do.
Krsto
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I've read some of Watchman Nee and he has good things to say, and visited the local Local Church. So if I travel down this road I will find that I need not concern myself with sin since it's all taken care of at the cross? I just need to believe and that's it? I don't need to be concerned about my flesh because there is nothing I can do about it or that God wants to do about it? So the only reason, say, I might be concerned about being selfish is if those with whom I live might hate me but if they can put up with it then no big deal and God doesn't care about it so why should I? Just eat, drink, and be merry, and enjoy my status as God's child, to hell with everyone else?
Just trying to get a handle on how this plays out in practice.
Oh no... it's Sozo
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ok.
The sin issue between you and God was finished on the cross. To deny this, is to spit on the blood of Jesus. What you do in this life with others is very important, but it does not make you right or wrong with God. You don't get to take the place of Jesus.
You need to believe the Gospel and that's it. So far, I do not believe you have. In fact, you appear to be mocking God's plan of salvation through Jesus Christ.
Didn't Paul say that all things are permissible, but not all things being profitable? What you do in the body has consequences in this life, but not with God.
Grow up, moron.
Only someone who has never believed the Gospel would consider such an immature statement.
Krsto
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So you are saying God doesn't care so why should we? I'm only going by the example you are presenting as one who espouses this doctrine. If you care, or think God cares, it't not very evident.
Again, I'm just going by your example as one who walks in this way. You don't seem to give a damn about anyone else so I was just trying to figure out if this is supposed to be the end result of "believing the gospel" according to how you see that or if you are just an anomoly. You are not doing your cause any favours but if your behavior is perfectly acceptable to those who walk in the way you speak of then I guess what it is is what it is.
I don't see dying to self, that is, crucifying the old nature so that you can receive the life of Christ, as being a part of what you believe. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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God does care, but because He doesn't want anyone to perish, not because sin has not been propitiated.
You have a false preconceived idea about what it means to be a Christian. You've been brainwashed by your religion, which is in no way something that resembles Christianity.
I care, because people like you, and andyc, preach a false gospel of self-righteousness, that can save no one.
You are wrong, because YOU think that it is a process, and you have a flawed view of salvation.
Legalism and legalistic are disdainful terms used by delinquents, criminals and criminal defenders, against the law and law-abiding peace-loving citizens.
How should peace-loving law-abiding citizens deal with it? Take it with a grain of salt and be glad that one day delinquents and criminals and their lawyers will no longer exist ... same as rebellious unrepentant habitual sinners will no longer exist.
Krsto
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So if I were walking in your moccasins, so to speak, and my sins have been propitiated, God would no longer care that I have pride, arrogance, selfishness, I was a striker, I had no love, etc.?
Krsto
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So then, how can I be saved? What is this Gospel that I must believe?
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What you fail to understand is that for those who are not in Christ, there is none righteous; there is none who does good. Anything we have is because of Him. As a believer, you can neither add to or subtract from what God gives us as a gift. You are no more or less proud, arrogant, or selfish before you are saved, then you will be after you are saved. God demands absolute perfection. In other words, if God demands that you jump over the Grand Canyon to be perfect, it doesn't matter how close you came. Falling short creates the same result. God is not in the business to get our flesh to perform, which is why He had to circumcise us from it, and give us His Spirit. He had to make us, what we can never make ourselves, and it is not a process. That teaching is demonic.
Listen carefully, if you really care about this.
Once we give others the impression that God is in the business of changing our lives, we bring to many a state of hopelessness and despair when they do not meet the expected results. God did not come to change our lives, he came to give us His. In His life we are free to grow in His grace, without the condemnation associated with expectations.
When you teach others that we are to"obey His commands" or "keep the Law", even if it is something that you claim that the Holy Spirit is doing in their lives, then you bring expectation and condemnation into the lives of those who don't measure up to YOUR standard. This is what Paul was teaching them in Galatians 5 that leads to boasting, envy, and challenging one another. When you show others that we are all on the same level, and that everyone’s "good works" is as "filthy rags" and that we are totally dependent on Christ, then we give the lost... hope, because anyone can do that.
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Krsto
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I read that and believed that when I got saved 30 years ago and have never waivered from that belief since that time. I have never since that time been concerned with my righteousness, being justified, being accepted by God, being reconciled to God, or having the gift of eternal life, as all that has been taken care of for me at Calvary.
There is one statement, however, in that very excellent post, which is cause for concern. It is: "Christianity is not a changed life, but an exchanged life." I had to ask you before which teachers you follow because what you espouse and what you manifest in your life are so foreign to exchanged life theology that I did not recognize it as such. I have always believed in exchanged life before I even heard the term and agree with 99% of what I know of what they teach. This statement, that "Christianity is not a changed life," is a slogan given to drive home a point but is a rather poor choice of words and I think you have picked up this odd ball and run amock with it leaving in your wake a plethora of ungodly consequenses.
Christianity is both, a changed life and an exchanged life. The point they are trying to make here is that the change should come from the exchange: we give up our life so that we can have his life, and that is what will produce positive, healthy, biblical Christian faith and practice, and to try to get there by simply changing one's life through one's self efforts is missing the mark. Once biblical faith is excercised one is freed up from sin and able to enjoy intimacy with Christ.
I agree with this. I have been living it for 30 years. I have also during that time temporarily slipped into a works based mentality and experienced the bondage and loss of joy that can bring but was able to come back to the Gospel through faith and absolute reliance on God.
I get it. Many on this forum you call morons get it.
Now having said that, there is a segment of the exchanged life proponents who do not preach the whole story by leaving out the part about picking up your cross DAILY, dying to self, and walking with God.
Not many would deny this is a daily thing and not just a one time event when we get saved as you seem to believe but few will emphasize dying to self as not everyone wants to hear that part of the message. One influential proponent of exchanged life theology estimates that as few as 2% of those who give seminars on the topic teach about the centrality of dying to self. I don't know if that's accurate but I can proudly say I would be in that number but unless this deeper life message is preached and practiced this "movement" will go down in flames and deeper life teaching and practice will suffer as a result, or maybe I should say if deeper life teaching and practice suffers the movement will go down in flames as a result.
I understand you got delivered from striving to be a better Christian. I've been there too. That's why I don't strive any more, I just believe, and God takes care of the rest.
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