Oh great, now he's referring to himself in the third person. :chuckle:
toldailytopic: How did the universe come into existence?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
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One Eyed Jack
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The Being (assuming there is one) Who created time, space, matter, and energy (which we know as the natural world, or the physical universe, if you will) must necessarily exist outside of these things. Thus super-natural. Does that make any sense, fool?
El DLo
New member
I'll admit that the big bang theory has some holes to it. Personally, I don't believe that the universe spontaneously became existent from nothing. I think that it has always existed and goes through cyclical periods of expanse and collapse.
The thing is, whether you believe it became existent spontaneously, or if you believe God did it, the fact is that nothing became something. Following the law of conservation of mass, it's actually more illogical to believe the universe was created in any context, than to believe that it has simply always here.
Also, supernatural or not, wouldn't God have to have come from SOMEWHERE? Also, don't forget that time is nothing more than a dimensional property. We perceive it to be linear, but in all likelihood, it's a constant force that simply exists as an instant. Therefore to coin the universe with a "beginning" would be ignoring the actual properties of it.
The thing is, whether you believe it became existent spontaneously, or if you believe God did it, the fact is that nothing became something. Following the law of conservation of mass, it's actually more illogical to believe the universe was created in any context, than to believe that it has simply always here.
Also, supernatural or not, wouldn't God have to have come from SOMEWHERE? Also, don't forget that time is nothing more than a dimensional property. We perceive it to be linear, but in all likelihood, it's a constant force that simply exists as an instant. Therefore to coin the universe with a "beginning" would be ignoring the actual properties of it.
One Eyed Jack
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Sorry. Would you consider everything that exists then (even such things, if there are any, outside of time, space, energy, and matter) to be natural? I'm just trying to figure out your perspective here.
No one really knows for sure. Not like it could ever be proved.
Maybe it didn't have beginning. Just a thought.
Maybe it didn't have beginning. Just a thought.
One Eyed Jack
New member
I think there's a model where the universe does experience a heat-death, and then all the particles in the universe basically disappear from where they are and reappear together in a singularity, which then explodes, creating another universe. At least, I think that's the gist of it.
I dunno how popular it is, nor do I subscribe to it -- I'm just throwing it out there.
I dunno how popular it is, nor do I subscribe to it -- I'm just throwing it out there.
YES!
Lets assume for arguments sake that there is a mechanism for time, space, matter, and energy to appear out of nowhere based on some law that has yet to be discovered and supercedes the known laws of physics when there is absolutely nothing. Take a close unbiased look at the universe. Does the big bang explain what we see? It does if you ignore some pretty big, gaping holes. Does the following scenario explain what we see? I think it does better than the big bang and its only drawback is for those who think an intelligent being whose being consists of things not contained in the physical universe, is utterly ridiculous. Here goes: God creates matter and puts it in specific places. He creates zero point energy which vibrates all particles thereby giving them mass. He sets up several of the laws of physics including an extremely high value for the speed of light which is designed to taper off over time. --------more.
Good observation!
In their defense; nobody knows....so any answer is speculation. The fact that there is no logical explanation for it is no reason for them to accept that "God did it" in their viewpoint.
PS. Boy did this thread hit the ground running. Nine pages already.
One Eyed Jack
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Okay. Some of us draw distinctions between those things we see as inherent to 4D space-time and those which don't seem to be so. You may not, but at least you can know what we're talking about when we do. And it helps us to know where you're coming from as well.
Since the speed of light is superfast, the rate at which stars form is greatly increased and when the dense inner core of our milky way galaxy is lit and becomes a quasar, earth receives light for the very first time. The rest of the genesis story better fits what we see as well. The creation of plants on day 3 and the creation of birds and fish on day 5 and the creation of land animals and man on day 6, included endowing each creature with a marvelous genetic code that not only gives them the ability to survive in a pristine environment but also gives them the ability to evolve into new creatures better suited to adapt to their environment after the crust of the the earth is totally turned into a huge slab of mud with all plant and animal life thoroughly disentegrated within it. These programmed genetic codes enable the colonizing animals to survive this devastation and the following 200,000 years of the earth changing into the form that we see today.
In a far distant future, why would all matter convert to energy?
I think there's a model
where the universe does
experience a heat-death,
and then all the particles in
the universe basically
disappear from where they
are and reappear together
in a singularity, which then
explodes, creating another
universe. At least, I think
that's the gist of it----OneEyedJack. If all particles are converted into pure energy or waves if you will, there is no way to make a singularity out of electromagnetic waves that are evenly dispersed. A singularity requires matter for gravity to act upon it. No matter---- No singularity.
where the universe does
experience a heat-death,
and then all the particles in
the universe basically
disappear from where they
are and reappear together
in a singularity, which then
explodes, creating another
universe. At least, I think
that's the gist of it----OneEyedJack. If all particles are converted into pure energy or waves if you will, there is no way to make a singularity out of electromagnetic waves that are evenly dispersed. A singularity requires matter for gravity to act upon it. No matter---- No singularity.
PyramidHead
Active member
I don't think it works like that
Pretty much kills the thread right there :mmph:
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