toldailytopic: A just war. What are some morally acceptable circumstances that might

[HisServant]

In doing so, they saved the Japanese civilization. And for the record...I think you need to review right and wrong.

Deuteronomy 20

13 And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which the Lord your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them

Ecclesiastes 3

1To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:

8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.

Trying to compare the example of God giving the terms to Israel for taking possession of the promised land.. to any non-jewish nation not taking possession of a promised land is very weak at best.

God purposefully did not want a Palestinian situation like we have in Israel right now for his people.

No other country in the entire world can claim similar guidance by God.. and never will.

And given Jesus commandment that we love our enemy and never repay evil with evil... actually if our enemy takes our jacket we are to offer him our shirt also... we are also told not to fear what can hurt the body, only what can hurt the soul.

Given those teachings, I find the entire concept of a 'just war' to be simply a result of selfish human immaturity that wants to set up some illusion of safety for them to hide behind. God said he would care for us and let us go through trials for our own good.. we should take him at his word.

 

[This Charming Manc]

I would never go far as using the word just ............

Just occasionally its the least evil option.

 

[Town Heretic]

But you can't do evil so that good may come from it.

Agreed. I don't believe an evil was done. :e4e:

 

[Eeset]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZU-9TBP2NY

 

[Desert Reign]

toldailytopic: A just war. What are some morally acceptable circumstances that might make a country go to war.

The westernised version of this (just war theory) has already been posted but eastern ideals would give a different set of reasons such as honour, revenge, suicide and the like.

In reality the idea of regulating wars is self-defeating because, unfortunately, wars happen when order breaks down.

 

[rocketman]

The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:

• the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
• all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
• there must be serious prospects of success;
• the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.

These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.

Has the Church said which wars have qualified for this?

I'm curious how these things are defined in actual situations.
For instance, did the atomic bombs fail the last item?

Yes, because they were dropped on civilian targets.

"War Is Hell" William Tecumseh Sherman

 

[Trumpetfolker]

Abraham lead his servants in just war.

Gen 14:18 And Melchizedek king of Salem brought forth bread and wine: and he was the priest of the most high God.
19 And he blessed him, and said, Blessed be Abram of the most high God, possessor of heaven and earth:
20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.

To have a just war, one of the combatants must be just- not just arguably less unjust.
"Get the log out of your own eye, first"sort of thing.

 

[Sherman]

In doing so, they saved the Japanese civilization. And for the record...I think you need to review right and wrong.

Deuteronomy 20

13 And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which the Lord your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them

Ecclesiastes 3

1To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:

8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.

Nick pretty much stole my thunder, defining a just war from scripture. Today people have gone all soft and 'PC'. As a result we in recent times we have terrorist regimes being repeat offenders.

Certain conditions have to be met for the country to be able to wage a just war. As another poster stated, the nation waging the war needs to have just laws.

 

[Nick M]

But you can't do evil so that good may come from it.

War isn't evil. Neither is killing. It is the reason behind it. When Florida strapped Ted Bundy to the chair and threw the switch, they were being just, not evil.

Just to give you an example.

 

[zippy2006]

Agreed. I don't believe an evil was done. :e4e:

Really?! Let's look at the act, not the consequence, since that's to the point: you drop some bombs and kill 200,000 innocent civilians. Is that an evil act or not? :think: Related: was what happened on September 11th necessarily evil?

 

[Tambora]

War isn't evil. Neither is killing. It is the reason behind it. When Florida strapped Ted Bundy to the chair and threw the switch, they were being just, not evil.

Just to give you an example.

Amen.

 

[annabenedetti]

War isn't evil. Neither is killing. It is the reason behind it. When Florida strapped Ted Bundy to the chair and threw the switch, they were being just, not evil.

Just to give you an example.

I would agree with that example with regards to the death penalty being justified, but war is different by the nature of its collateral civilian casualties.

So yes, when war is justified, and it can be, it's critically important that it's engaged for the right reasons, that's all.

 

[Lighthouse]

You might as well ask if there is such a thing as a just fight, or just killing.

Of course there is.

It was just to go to war against the NAZIS because of what they were doing to innocent people, for instance.

For the same reason George punches Biff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=So2yJzFOJeo

I tried to find one of George knocking Biff out, but no luck.

 

[HisServant]

You might as well ask if there is such a thing as a just fight, or just killing.

Of course there is.

It was just to go to war against the NAZIS because of what they were doing to innocent people, for instance.

I tried to find one of George knocking Biff out, but no luck.

So its justified to kill people when church leaders and Christians failed doing the right thing?

Most people don't realize that most of the Nazi's were raised Christian and many thought they were doing God's work by exterminating the race that killed Jesus.

If the Church did the right thing and taught their members to be pacifist, Hitler could never have raised an army.

Not to mention that it was the Christian nations of the west that set the perfect stage for Hitlers rise with the way they settled World War I.

 

[Lighthouse]

So its justified to kill people when church leaders and Christians failed doing the right thing?

Most people don't realize that most of the Nazi's were raised Christian and many thought they were doing God's work by exterminating the race that killed Jesus.

If the Church did the right thing and taught their members to be pacifist, Hitler could never have raised an army.

Not to mention that it was the Christian nations of the west that set the perfect stage for Hitlers rise with the way they settled World War I.

You're an idiot.

 

[HisServant]

You're an idiot.

No.. I am a student of history.

Maybe you should do some reading on Bonhoeffer and Barth.

This is a good read also

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_Reich_Church

 

[Lighthouse]

No.. I am a student of history.

Maybe you should do some reading on Bonhoeffer and Barth.

And this is how I know you're an idiot; you don't even realize what you posted that sparked my comment.

Do you honestly think it was your comments on history?

 

[HisServant]

And this is how I know you're an idiot; you don't even realize what you posted that sparked my comment.

Do you honestly think it was your comments on history?

Depends.. there are all sorts of loons on this site, so trying to guess what you were commenting on is very difficult to determine.

Was it my comments on pacifism?... how is killing your fellow human compatible with loving and forgiving them?

 

[Lighthouse]

Depends.. there are all sorts of loons on this site, so trying to guess what you were commenting on is very difficult to determine.

Was it my comments on pacifism?... how is killing your fellow human compatible with loving and forgiving them?

:bang:

Sometimes executing someone is the most loving thing you can do for them, and for the rest of humanity. And just because you execute someone that doesn't mean you can't forgive them first. However, Christ commanded we only forgive those who repent.

And if you think Jesus was a pacifist you need to read the story of the moneychangers in the temple.

 

[Nick M]

So yes, when war is justified, and it can be, it's critically important that it's engaged for the right reasons, that's all.

Nobody would say otherwise. The right reasons are one government to overthrow another because it profanes God.