toldailytopic: A just war. What are some morally acceptable circumstances that might

Nathon Detroit

Nathon Detroit

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The TheologyOnline.com TOPIC OF THE DAY for April 26th, 2012 09:24 AM


toldailytopic: A just war. What are some morally acceptable circumstances that might make a country go to war.



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Traditio

Traditio

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Link.

"In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:

"1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

3. there must be serious prospects of success;

4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition" [CCC 2309]."
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

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The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

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"Insofar as men are sinful, the threat of war hangs over them, and hang over them it will until the return of Christ" (Gaudium et Spes).
 
H

HisServant

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No war is ever justified.

The "just war theory" was invented when Rome was caught embracing a new religion that was strictly pacifist... how could it defend itself if its citizens refuse to fight?

Before Romanization of Christianity... if you served in the military, you had to serve an equal time in penance, during which you were expected to pray and fast and you were not allowed to teach or serve in a position of leadership.
 
ICameBack

ICameBack

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HisServant said:
No war is ever justified.

The "just war theory" was invented when Rome was caught embracing a new religion that was strictly pacifist... how could it defend itself if its citizens refuse to fight?

Before Romanization of Christianity... if you served in the military, you had to serve an equal time in penance, during which you were expected to pray and fast and you were not allowed to teach or serve in a position of leadership.
Click to expand...

So are you a pacifist?
 
Nick M

Nick M

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satan'sServant said:
No war is ever justified.

The "just war theory" was invented when Rome was caught embracing a new religion ...
Click to expand...

Deuteronomy 20

16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them: the Hittite and the Amorite and the Canaanite and the Perizzite and the Hivite and the Jebusite, just as the Lord your God has commanded you, 18 lest they teach you to do according to all their abominations which they have done for their gods, and you sin against the Lord your God.

Ecclesiastes 3

1To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:

8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.
 
kmoney

kmoney

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annabenedetti said:
The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
Click to expand...

Has the Church said which wars have qualified for this?

I'm curious how these things are defined in actual situations.
For instance, did the atomic bombs fail the last item?
 
R

rexlunae

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Traditio said:
Link.

"In this regard Just War doctrine gives certain conditions for the legitimate exercise of force, all of which must be met:

"1. the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;

2. all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;

3. there must be serious prospects of success;

4. the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition" [CCC 2309]."
Click to expand...

annabenedetti said:
The strict conditions for legitimate defense by military force require rigorous consideration. The gravity of such a decision makes it subject to rigorous conditions of moral legitimacy. At one and the same time:
  • the damage inflicted by the aggressor on the nation or community of nations must be lasting, grave, and certain;
  • all other means of putting an end to it must have been shown to be impractical or ineffective;
  • there must be serious prospects of success;
  • the use of arms must not produce evils and disorders graver than the evil to be eliminated. The power of modern means of destruction weighs very heavily in evaluating this condition.
These are the traditional elements enumerated in what is called the "just war" doctrine. The evaluation of these conditions for moral legitimacy belongs to the prudential judgment of those who have responsibility for the common good.
Click to expand...

The right answer, twice in one minute.
 
Town Heretic

Town Heretic

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kmoney said:
Has the Church said which wars have qualified for this?

I'm curious how these things are defined in actual situations.
For instance, did the atomic bombs fail the last item?
Click to expand...

Depends on what projection you believe. The Allies thought many more would die, civilians and military included, if they were forced to fight street to street and house to house to subdue the Japanese. They'd shown remarkable bravery and tenacity in that sort of situation.
 
Nick M

Nick M

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annabenedetti said:
Yes, because they were dropped on civilian targets.
Click to expand...

In doing so, they saved the Japanese civilization. And for the record...I think you need to review right and wrong.

Deuteronomy 20

13 And when the Lord your God delivers it into your hands, you shall strike every male in it with the edge of the sword. 14 But the women, the little ones, the livestock, and all that is in the city, all its spoil, you shall plunder for yourself; and you shall eat the enemies’ plunder which the Lord your God gives you. 15 Thus you shall do to all the cities which are very far from you, which are not of the cities of these nations.

16 “But of the cities of these peoples which the Lord your God gives you as an inheritance, you shall let nothing that breathes remain alive, 17 but you shall utterly destroy them

Ecclesiastes 3

1To everything there is a season, A time for every purpose under heaven:

8 A time to love, And a time to hate; A time of war, And a time of peace.
 
annabenedetti

annabenedetti

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Nick M said:
In doing so, they saved the Japanese civilization. And for the record...I think you need to review right and wrong.
Click to expand...

But you can't do evil so that good may come from it.

I don't have it all completely sorted out. It took me a long time to question the history I learned, and a lot longer to consider a different view.

I have relatives who fought in that war, and I know it needs careful consideration.

BTW - I'm not a pacifist. There will be times when it is a time for war, and the war must be fought.
 
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