This day have I begotten you

[Wick Stick]

When the Most High speaks to Moses, in Exodus 6:3, He says that He made appearances unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, literally "in El Shaddai", (באלשדי), and Luke by way of the testimony of Stephen tells us who that concerns; for Stephen himself says in the following passage quoted below, "the God of the Glory", (not just "the God of glory"), and we know by many passages who is the express image and the Glory of the Father:

Shaddai is a fun word. It gets translated Almighty in all our Bibles, but with different vowel pointings it can mean "my strength," "my familiar spirit," or even "my daemon." Positively scandalous!

My default view on vowel pointings is that the ambiguity is intentional, and all possible meanings are intended.

-Jarrod

 

[freelight]

Living manna........

Living manna........

When the Most High speaks to Moses, in Exodus 6:3, He says that He made appearances unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, literally "in El Shaddai", (באלשדי), and Luke by way of the testimony of Stephen tells us who that concerns; for Stephen himself says in the following passage quoted below, "the God of the Glory", (not just "the God of glory"), and we know by many passages who is the express image and the Glory of the Father:

Acts 7:2 W/H
2 ο δε εφη ανδρες αδελφοι και πατερες ακουσατε ο θεος της δοξης ωφθη τω πατρι ημων αβρααμ οντι εν τη μεσοποταμια πριν η κατοικησαι αυτον εν χαρραν
2 And he said, Brethren and fathers, hearken: the El of the Glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran:

The El of the Glory is thus El Shaddai whom the Father beforetime, (before Moses according to Exodus 6:3), made His appearances unto the patriarch-fathers IN or THROUGH, (by way of, because the Father is non-corporeal Spirit). So the heavenly Father made appearances in El Shaddai who is the El of the Glory of the Father, (His express image who is also His Word).

The Master expounds the difference between himself and Meshiah in several related passages. If you follow the corrupt Textus Receptus you will be misled but from the W/H this is plainly expounded:

John 13:13 W/H
13 υμεις φωνειτε με ο διδασκαλος και ο κυριος και καλως λεγετε ειμι γαρ
13 You call me "the Teacher", (ο διδασκαλος), and "the Master", (ο κυριος), and you say well, because I am.

Matthew 23:8-10 W/H
8 υμεις δε μη κληθητε ραββι εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο διδασκαλος παντες δε υμεις αδελφοι εστε
9 και πατερα μη καλεσητε υμων επι της γης εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο πατηρ ο ουρανιος
10 μηδε κληθητε καθηγηται οτι καθηγητης υμων εστιν εις ο χριστος

Matthew 23:8-10 (W/H rendering)
8 But you shall not be called "Rabbi", for one is your Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος - John 13:13), and you are all brethren.
9 And "Father" shall you not call yourselves [or call or be called] upon the earth, for one is your Father: the Heavenly [Father].
10 Neither shall you be called καθηγηται-guide-leader-commander: for one is your καθηγητης-Guide-Leader-Commander: the Meshiah.

Thus our Rabbi-Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος), is not the exact same as our Leader, Commander, and Guide, (our καθηγητης who is ο χριστος). And according to John 13:13 our Rabbi-Teacher is likewise the Master, (ο κυριος, which most often when employed with the article is not the Tetragrammaton). So we have in the above two passages the teaching that our Rabbi-Teacher is a man, (now resurrected), and Meshiah is our Guide, (the Word), and our Guide ultimately brings us back and restores us to our one and only Heavenly Father.

Now therefore please read carefully:

Matthew 28:2-7
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake: for Malak YHWH descended from the heavens, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat thereon.
3 His countenance was like lightning and His raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of Him the watchers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the Malak answered and said to the women, Fear not, for I know that you seek Ι̅H who was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said; come, see the place where he laid.
7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and behold, he goes before you into the Galilees; there shall you see him: behold, I have told you.

Mark 16:5-7
5 And entering into the tomb, they saw a νεανισκον-young man seated on the right side, invested all about in a long white stole; and they were utterly astonished.
6 And he said to them, Be not astonished; you seek Ι̅H the Nazarene who was crucified: He is risen; He is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that He goes before you into the Galilees: there shall you see Him, just as He told you.

What therefore does Thomas mean when he says, "my Master and my El? :chuckle:

May YHWH bless, uplift and inspire....our hearts to acknowledge and praise. The teacher or Messiah is within, the Son of Man, Son of God...is invested in us, as we partake of the Anointed, his living word and spirit, to the glory of the Father, in whose light our sonship heralds.

One Messiah is our teacher,...one anointed word, and one teacher, the prophet within. As you say, the testimony of Messiah is Spirit. Spirit is life. There is breath, word and voice. These three are living speech. The word is breathed,....the logos is made flesh,...the Spirit, the water and blood all bear witness,....to the Spirit of God, or the Messiah in Man. We are his new Man, his new creation, his Messiah-Son,...his tabernacles.


Bless you!

 

[Notaclue]

Again, TESTIMONY IS SPIRIT, and he who was Anointed to speak the Word in the Gospel accounts is not himself that TESTIMONY. He clearly tells you so himself. This is the same thing again and again which the likes of Jerry Shugart, Evil.Eye, (and all the others from the thread which is now closed, The Logos-Word), refuse to acknowledge or accept because it utterly annihilates their false doctrine. The Testimony IS the Son of Man because it is both spoken and written by MAN from Genesis to the Revelation of Messiah. The Son of Elohim descended from the heavens in the bodily form of a dove: He is the Spirit of the Father, Ruach Elohim, who is Ruach Meshiah, because He is the Word of the Father, because TESTIMONY IS SPIRIT, because the Testimony of the Anointed One is SPIRIT and LIFE. Again, this is precisely why the Anointed One never calls himself the Son of Man but ALWAYS speaks of the Son of Man in the third person. There is only one place where he appears to do so and it is contested because it has clearly been altered in the Textus Receptus, (because no doubt someone saw the problem with the Anointed One NEVER once calling himself the Son of Man).

Again, the plain simple flow of systematic logic straight from the Testimony:

The words of the Anointed One are Spirit:

John 6:62-63
62 What then if you should behold the Son of Man ascending up to where he was before?
63 It is the Spirit that quickens; the flesh profits nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit, and they are Life.

The Father judges no one but has committed all judgment to the Son:

John 5:22
22. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment unto the Son:

The Anointed One does not testify of himself and therefore does not claim to be Elohim:

John 5:31
31 If I testify of myself, my testimony is not true.

The Anointed One emphatically states that he himself judges no one:

John 8:15
15. You judge after the flesh: I judge no one.

There is only one who judges and he is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 8:50
50. And I seek not mine own glory: one there is, the Seeker and Judge. [Rev 2:23]

The Logos-Word is the Seeker and the Judge:

John 12:47-48
47. And if anyone hear my words, and believe not, I judge him not: for I came not to judge the world, but that the world might be delivered.
48. He that rejects me, and receives not my words, has one that judges him: the LOGOS-WORD that I have spoken, THAT ONE shall judge him in the last day [Rev 19:11-16].

The Logos-Word the Anointed One speaks is not his own:

John 14:24
24. He that loves me not, keeps not my sayings: and the Logos-Word which you hear is not of me, but of the Father who sent me.

The Father judges no one, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One judges no one, (John 8:15, John 12:47-48).
The Father has committed all judgment unto the Son, (John 5:22).
The Anointed One does not testify concerning himself, (John 5:31).
The Anointed One testifies concerning the Father and the Son.
The Son is therefore the only Judge.

The Father is not the Judge.
The Anointed One is not the Judge.
The Logos-Word the Anointed One speaks is the Judge.
The Anointed One therefore cannot be the Logos-Word himself.
The Logos-Word is the only begotten Elohim-Son of Elohim, (John 1:18).
The Testimony of the Anointed One is never going to pass away, (Mt 24:35, Mk 13:31, Lk 21:33).
(Condensed from "The Logos-Word" Post#2 and previous posts also in this thread).

Hi daqq,


#3056. logos
Strong's Concordance
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.
HELPS Word-studies
3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.

[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) with regards to a person sharing a message (discourse, "communication-speech"). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning "reasoning expressed by words."]


#4487. rhéma
Strong's Concordance
rhéma: a word, by impl. a matter
Original Word: ῥῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: rhéma
Phonetic Spelling: (hray'-mah)
Short Definition: a thing spoken
Definition: a thing spoken, (a) a word or saying of any kind, as command, report, promise, (b) a thing, matter, business.
HELPS Word-studies
4487 rhḗma (from 4483 /rhéō, "to speak") – a spoken word, made "by the living voice" (J. Thayer). 4487 /rhḗma ("spoken-word") is commonly used in the NT (and in LXX) for the Lord speaking His dynamic, living word in a believer to inbirth faith ("His inwrought persuasion").


Heb.4:12 (Y.L.T.) for the reckoning of God is living, and working,


and sharp* above* every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart

#3056
Word of God.


Eph.6:17(Y.L.T.) and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,


*#4087
saying of God,


Jn.12:48 (Y.L.T.)'He who is rejecting me, and not receiving my

#4087
sayings, hath one who is judging him, the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day,

#3056
word that I have spoken,

Heb.12:19 (Y.L.T.) and a sound of a trumpet, and a voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a word might not be added to them,

#4087
Sayings


Jn.6:63(Y.L.T.) the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

#4087
sayings that I speak to you are spirit,



Food for thought.


Peace Friend.

 

[daqq]

Hi daqq,


#3056. logos
Strong's Concordance
logos: a word (as embodying an idea), a statement, a speech
Original Word: λόγος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: logos
Phonetic Spelling: (log'-os)
Short Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy
Definition: a word, speech, divine utterance, analogy.
HELPS Word-studies
3056 lógos (from 3004 /légō, "speaking to a conclusion") – a word, being the expression of a thought; a saying. 3056 /lógos ("word") is preeminently used of Christ (Jn 1:1), expressing the thoughts of the Father through the Spirit.

[3056 (lógos) is a common term (used 330 times in the NT) with regards to a person sharing a message (discourse, "communication-speech"). 3056 (lógos) is a broad term meaning "reasoning expressed by words."]


#4487. rhéma
Strong's Concordance
rhéma: a word, by impl. a matter
Original Word: ῥῆμα, ατος, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: rhéma
Phonetic Spelling: (hray'-mah)
Short Definition: a thing spoken
Definition: a thing spoken, (a) a word or saying of any kind, as command, report, promise, (b) a thing, matter, business.
HELPS Word-studies
4487 rhḗma (from 4483 /rhéō, "to speak") – a spoken word, made "by the living voice" (J. Thayer). 4487 /rhḗma ("spoken-word") is commonly used in the NT (and in LXX) for the Lord speaking His dynamic, living word in a believer to inbirth faith ("His inwrought persuasion").


Heb.4:12 (Y.L.T.) for the reckoning of God is living, and working,


and sharp* above* every two-edged sword, and piercing unto the dividing asunder both of soul and spirit, of joints also and marrow, and a discerner of thoughts and intents of the heart

#3056
Word of God.


Eph.6:17(Y.L.T.) and the helmet of the salvation receive, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the saying of God,


*#4087
saying of God,


Jn.12:48 (Y.L.T.)'He who is rejecting me, and not receiving my

#4087
sayings, hath one who is judging him, the word that I spake, that will judge him in the last day,

#3056
word that I have spoken,

Heb.12:19 (Y.L.T.) and a sound of a trumpet, and a voice of sayings, which those having heard did entreat that a word might not be added to them,

#4087
Sayings


Jn.6:63(Y.L.T.) the spirit it is that is giving life; the flesh doth not profit anything; the sayings that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life;

#4087
sayings that I speak to you are spirit,



Food for thought.


Peace Friend.

Have you ever noticed that the Angels are generally said to speak Rhema?

This is the Malak Gabriel speaking:

Luke 1:37
37 οτι ουκ αδυνατησει παρα του θεου παν ρημα
37 for with all-every Rhema of Elohim nothing shall be impossible.

More food for thought:

Luke 3:1-2
1 Moreover in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Yhudah, and Herod being tetrarch of the Galilees, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene:
2 upon the chief-priesthood of Annas and Kaiaphas, the Rhema of Elohim came unto Yohanan the son of Zachariah in the desert.

Peace.

 

[S-word]

When the Most High speaks to Moses, in Exodus 6:3, He says that He made appearances unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, literally "in El Shaddai", (באלשדי), and Luke by way of the testimony of Stephen tells us who that concerns; for Stephen himself says in the following passage quoted below, "the God of the Glory", (not just "the God of glory"), and we know by many passages who is the express image and the Glory of the Father:

And you believe the testimony of Stephen, do you?

 

[daqq]

Have you ever noticed that the Angels are generally said to speak Rhema?

This is the Malak Gabriel speaking:

Luke 1:37
37 οτι ουκ αδυνατησει παρα του θεου παν ρημα
37 for with all-every Rhema of Elohim nothing shall be impossible.

More food for thought:

Luke 3:1-2
1 Moreover in the fifteenth year of the reign of Tiberius Caesar, Pontius Pilate being governor of Yhudah, and Herod being tetrarch of the Galilees, and his brother Philip tetrarch of the region of Ituraea and Trachonitis, and Lysanias tetrarch of Abilene:
2 upon the chief-priesthood of Annas and Kaiaphas, the Rhema of Elohim came unto Yohanan the son of Zachariah in the desert.

Peace.

So perhaps, [MENTION=16748]Notaclue[/MENTION], it is kind of like so: we fill up on the Rhema of Elohim but do not have the full reasoning of it all right from the start. And as we continue the Logos begins to form in us by way of the Testimony of the Master, (which expounds all things), and the reasoning behind the Rhema begins to take shape. This is why our faith is not a blind faith but truly based in sound reason and logic. When the Master says to certain ones that they did not have the Logos of the Father in them it does not mean they did not have the Rhema of Elohim. They were in fact full of the Rhema of Elohim but had no understanding of it for lack of Logos, the Reasoner and the Guide, which is Meshiah, the Light. The following from the previous page lays this out better than anything else I could say at this point:

The Master expounds the difference between himself and Meshiah in several related passages. If you follow the corrupt Textus Receptus you will be misled but from the W/H this is plainly expounded:

John 13:13 W/H
13 υμεις φωνειτε με ο διδασκαλος και ο κυριος και καλως λεγετε ειμι γαρ
13 You call me "the Teacher", (ο διδασκαλος), and "the Master", (ο κυριος), and you say well, because I am.

Matthew 23:8-10 W/H
8 υμεις δε μη κληθητε ραββι εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο διδασκαλος παντες δε υμεις αδελφοι εστε
9 και πατερα μη καλεσητε υμων επι της γης εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο πατηρ ο ουρανιος
10 μηδε κληθητε καθηγηται οτι καθηγητης υμων εστιν εις ο χριστος

Matthew 23:8-10 (W/H rendering)
8 But you shall not be called "Rabbi", for one is your Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος - John 13:13), and you are all brethren.
9 And "Father" shall you not call yourselves [or call or be called] upon the earth, for one is your Father: the Heavenly [Father].
10 Neither shall you be called καθηγηται-guide-leader-commander: for one is your καθηγητης-Guide-Leader-Commander: the Meshiah.

Thus our Rabbi-Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος), is not the exact same as our Leader, Commander, and Guide, (our καθηγητης who is ο χριστος). And according to John 13:13 our Rabbi-Teacher is likewise the Master, (ο κυριος, which most often when employed with the article is not the Tetragrammaton). So we have in the above two passages the teaching that our Rabbi-Teacher is a man, (now resurrected), and Meshiah is our Guide, (the Word), and our Guide ultimately brings us back and restores us to our one and only Heavenly Father.

 

[daqq]

And you believe the testimony of Stephen, do you?

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone; but by every ρηματι proceeding out of the mouth of Yah. And looking intently at Stephano, all that were seated in the Sanhedrin saw his countenance as if it were the countenance of an Angel. Why therefore would I not believe his testimony?

 

[S-word]

It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone; but by every ρηματι proceeding out of the mouth of Yah. And looking intently at Stephano, all that were seated in the Sanhedrin saw his countenance as if it were the countenance of an Angel. Why therefore would I not believe his testimony?

Stephen, a Greek speaking Jew, of who it is said, was filled with the Holy Spirit, who had been dragged before the Jewish authorities by Saul, in defence of his faith before being stoned to death, stated in acts 7: 4, that it was after Terah HAD DIED that his son Abraham obeyed God’s command and went to live in the land of Canaan.

But the record in Genesis makes it plain that after Terah had turned 70 not 75 or 80, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor, and Haran, and that Abraham was 75 when he travelled to Canaan, leaving his father with his younger brother “Nahor,” and that his father died at the age of 205, 60 years after Abraham had gone into the land of Canaan. Stephen‘s word’s here are seen to be untrue.

Stephen who was filled with the Holy Spirit also states in Acts 7: 15-17, that Abraham bought the grave site for Sarah in the land of Shechem from Hamor, whereas Genesis 23: shows that Abraham bought the grave site from Ephron the Hittite at Machpeleh east of Mamre, which is way to the south of Shechem. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

It is also said by Stephen in the same verse, that Jacob and his sons were buried at Shechem, when in fact, it was only the remains of Joseph which was buried there, see Joshua 24: 32. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

Jacob and his other sons were buried at Mamre and concerning the burial of Jacob, it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.” Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

So if you believe the testimony of Stephen, you must deny the Words of the Lord.

 

[daqq]

Stephen, a Greek speaking Jew, of who it is said, was filled with the Holy Spirit, who had been dragged before the Jewish authorities by Saul, in defence of his faith before being stoned to death, stated in acts 7: 4, that it was after Terah HAD DIED that his son Abraham obeyed God’s command and went to live in the land of Canaan.

But the record in Genesis makes it plain that after Terah had turned 70 not 75 or 80, he became the father of Abraham, Nahor, and Haran, and that Abraham was 75 when he travelled to Canaan, leaving his father with his younger brother “Nahor,” and that his father died at the age of 205, 60 years after Abraham had gone into the land of Canaan. Stephen‘s word’s here are seen to be untrue.

Stephen who was filled with the Holy Spirit also states in Acts 7: 15-17, that Abraham bought the grave site for Sarah in the land of Shechem from Hamor, whereas Genesis 23: shows that Abraham bought the grave site from Ephron the Hittite at Machpeleh east of Mamre, which is way to the south of Shechem. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

It is also said by Stephen in the same verse, that Jacob and his sons were buried at Shechem, when in fact, it was only the remains of Joseph which was buried there, see Joshua 24: 32. Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

Jacob and his other sons were buried at Mamre and concerning the burial of Jacob, it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.” Again Stephen’s words are untrue.

So if you believe the testimony of Stephen, you must deny the Words of the Lord.

Ah, I see, so it is you who does not believe the testimony of Stephano. And what is even worse is that you count the Masoretes and their pointed text as "the Words of the Lord", (translated into English I suppose), when that text came a thousand years after the fact; and you should already know better, seeing how most all of the apostolic writers quote from the Septuagint or a very similar more ancient version thereof which is no longer extant. I'm not interested in trying to rebut all of your claims made from a standpoint of disbelief. If you want to argue the validity of the NT writings please go start your own thread on that topic.

 

[S-word]

Ah, I see, so it is you who does not believe the testimony of Stephano. And what is even worse is that you count the Masoretes and their pointed text as "the Words of the Lord", (translated into English I suppose), when that text came a thousand years after the fact; and you should already know better, seeing how most all of the apostolic writers quote from the Septuagint or a very similar more ancient version thereof which is no longer extant. I'm not interested in trying to rebut all of your claims made from a standpoint of disbelief. If you want to argue the validity of the NT writings please go start your own thread on that topic.

I am not arguing the validity of the NT writings, I'm here to confirm that they are correct.

Question...... How old was Terah when Abraham was born? How old was Abraham when he left the town of Haran and travelled to Canaan? How old was Terah when he died?

Could Stephen have been correct in saying that it was after Terah had died that God made Abraham move into the land of Canaan? See Acts 7: 4.

Most Christians seem to believe that if someone is filled with the holy spirit, they must therefore have all truth: Acts 7; proves otherwise.

Stephen was neither a teacher nor a preacher, but was a newly converted Greek speaking Jew, and because the widows of this group were being neglected in the daily distribution of funds, he with six others were chosen to handle the finances, and although he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he did not speak the truth because he did not know the truth, for knowing the truth has nothing to do with the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

The world is filled with wonderful people who are a blessing to the communities in which they live, and who are ignorant to the truth of God’s word, (Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe) these people are not filled with knowledge of the truth that is revealed in scripture, but they are filled with the love the compassion and the power of the holy Spirit.

 

[Lazy afternoon]

I am not arguing the validity of the NT writings, I'm here to confirm that they are correct.

Question...... How old was Terah when Abraham was born? How old was Abraham when he left the town of Haran and travelled to Canaan? How old was Terah when he died?

Could Stephen have been correct in saying that it was after Terah had died that God made Abraham move into the land of Canaan? See Acts 7: 4.

Most Christians seem to believe that if someone is filled with the holy spirit, they must therefore have all truth: Acts 7; proves otherwise.

Stephen was neither a teacher nor a preacher, but was a newly converted Greek speaking Jew, and because the widows of this group were being neglected in the daily distribution of funds, he with six others were chosen to handle the finances, and although he was filled with the Holy Spirit, he did not speak the truth because he did not know the truth, for knowing the truth has nothing to do with the blessings of the Holy Spirit.

The world is filled with wonderful people who are a blessing to the communities in which they live, and who are ignorant to the truth of God’s word, (Blessed are they who do not see, and yet believe) these people are not filled with knowledge of the truth that is revealed in scripture, but they are filled with the love the compassion and the power of the holy Spirit.

It was the Angel of the Lord speaking to the Jewish governing people.

not Steven.

Carry on.

 

[daqq]

It was the Angel of the Lord speaking to the Jewish governing people.

not Steven.

Carry on.

Please do not feed the troll.
That discussion is now continued in his own thread, here.

 

[S-word]

It was the Angel of the Lord speaking to the Jewish governing people.

not Steven.

Carry on.

So, according to you, it was the angel who lied and said that Abraham did not enter Canaan until his Father Terah died at the age of 205, which would mean that Abraham who was born when Terah was 70, was 135 when he went into the land of Canaan, and not 75 years old as stated in the scriptures, and that his son Isaac was born 35 years before his father 'Abraham', even went into the land of Canaan.

And you believe that it was the angel and not Stephen who lied, when he said that Jacob and all his sons were buried in Shechem, when in the Holy Scriptures it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.”

The angel that you speak of must have been Satan the father of all lies, am I correct?

 

[daqq]

So, according to you, it was the angel who lied and said that Abraham did not enter Canaan until his Father Terah died at the age of 205, which would mean that Abraham who was born when Terah was 70, was 135 when he went into the land of Canaan, and not 75 years old as stated in the scriptures, and that his son Isaac was born 35 years before his father 'Abraham', even went into the land of Canaan.

And you believe that it was the angel and not Stephen who lied, when he said that Jacob and all his sons were buried in Shechem, when in the Holy Scriptures it is written in Genesis 50: 13, “They carried the body of Jacob to Canaan and buried it in the cave at Machpelah east of Mamre in the field which Abraham had bought from Ephron the Hittite.”

The angel that you speak of must have been Satan the father of all lies, am I correct?

This also will be placed in your own dumpster thread.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I am not arguing the validity of the NT writings,

Then shut up.

I'm here to confirm that they are correct.

 

[S-word]

Then shut up.

You could no more stop me from speaking the truth, than you could stop the tides from going in and out.

 

[daqq]

You could no more stop me from speaking the truth, than you could stop the tides from going in and out.

Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

 

[freelight]

The Son of Man's 2nd coming?

The Son of Man's 2nd coming?

Thank goodness the truth has already been fully expounded in this thread concerning the topic.

Hi daqq,

If/when Jesus returns, assuming you believe in a physical return? (I don't know if you interpret that figuratively in some sense)...will Jesus be accompanied by the Holy Spirit, Logos-Word, Son of Man mantle?,....will he be different in any way from how he was during his earthly ministry, perhaps just now with a glorified, immortalized body? Is Jesus 'Sonship' still the same in nature, quality and attributes, and is his identity or relationship to the title 'Son of Man' or 'Messiah' the same? I understand some things are to be figuratively understood, by analogy, allegory or esoterically,....I do a lot of that myself, but was just curious if and how you would respond to this inquiry. (the divine decree of Sonship of Jesus the Messiah,....does it stand forever, and will we see him again in like 'form' and 'personality' as he was on earth, IF and WHEN he returns to earth. I guess this brings up the question of the whole '2nd coming' belief or theory. Did the holy spirit dove mantle that came upon him at his baptism only come upon him during his earthly ministry, or is it still upon him?

 

[daqq]

Hi daqq,

If/when Jesus returns, assuming you believe in a physical return? (I don't know if you interpret that figuratively in some sense)...will Jesus be accompanied by the Holy Spirit, Logos-Word, Son of Man mantle?,....will he be different in any way from how he was during his earthly ministry, perhaps just now with a glorified, immortalized body? Is Jesus 'Sonship' still the same in nature, quality and attributes, and is his identity or relationship to the title 'Son of Man' or 'Messiah' the same? I understand some things are to be figuratively understood, by analogy, allegory or esoterically,....I do a lot of that myself, but was just curious if and how you would respond to this inquiry. (the divine decree of Sonship of Jesus the Messiah,....does it stand forever, and will we see him again in like 'form' and 'personality' as he was on earth, IF and WHEN he returns to earth. I guess this brings up the question of the whole '2nd coming' belief or theory. Did the holy spirit dove mantle that came upon him at his baptism only come upon him during his earthly ministry, or is it still upon him?

Like so:

When the Most High speaks to Moses, in Exodus 6:3, He says that He made appearances unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, literally "in El Shaddai", (באלשדי), and Luke by way of the testimony of Stephen tells us who that concerns; for Stephen himself says in the following passage quoted below, "the God of the Glory", (not just "the God of glory"), and we know by many passages who is the express image and the Glory of the Father:

Acts 7:2 W/H
2 ο δε εφη ανδρες αδελφοι και πατερες ακουσατε ο θεος της δοξης ωφθη τω πατρι ημων αβρααμ οντι εν τη μεσοποταμια πριν η κατοικησαι αυτον εν χαρραν
2 And he said, Brethren and fathers, hearken: the El of the Glory appeared unto our father Abraham, when he was in Mesopotamia, before he dwelt in Haran:

The El of the Glory is thus El Shaddai whom the Father beforetime, (before Moses according to Exodus 6:3), made His appearances unto the patriarch-fathers IN or THROUGH, (by way of, because the Father is non-corporeal Spirit). So the heavenly Father made appearances in El Shaddai who is the El of the Glory of the Father, (His express image who is also His Word).

The Master expounds the difference between himself and Meshiah in several related passages. If you follow the corrupt Textus Receptus you will be misled but from the W/H this is plainly expounded:

John 13:13 W/H
13 υμεις φωνειτε με ο διδασκαλος και ο κυριος και καλως λεγετε ειμι γαρ
13 You call me "the Teacher", (ο διδασκαλος), and "the Master", (ο κυριος), and you say well, because I am.

Matthew 23:8-10 W/H
8 υμεις δε μη κληθητε ραββι εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο διδασκαλος παντες δε υμεις αδελφοι εστε
9 και πατερα μη καλεσητε υμων επι της γης εις γαρ εστιν υμων ο πατηρ ο ουρανιος
10 μηδε κληθητε καθηγηται οτι καθηγητης υμων εστιν εις ο χριστος

Matthew 23:8-10 (W/H rendering)
8 But you shall not be called "Rabbi", for one is your Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος - John 13:13), and you are all brethren.
9 And "Father" shall you not call yourselves [or call or be called] upon the earth, for one is your Father: the Heavenly [Father].
10 Neither shall you be called καθηγηται-guide-leader-commander: for one is your καθηγητης-Guide-Leader-Commander: the Meshiah.

Thus our Rabbi-Teacher, (ο διδασκαλος), is not the exact same as our Leader, Commander, and Guide, (our καθηγητης who is ο χριστος). And according to John 13:13 our Rabbi-Teacher is likewise the Master, (ο κυριος, which most often when employed with the article is not the Tetragrammaton). So we have in the above two passages the teaching that our Rabbi-Teacher is a man, (now resurrected), and Meshiah is our Guide, (the Word), and our Guide ultimately brings us back and restores us to our one and only Heavenly Father.

Now therefore please read carefully:

Matthew 28:2-7
2 And behold, there was a great earthquake: for Malak YHWH descended from the heavens, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat thereon.
3 His countenance was like lightning and His raiment white as snow:
4 And for fear of Him the watchers did shake, and became as dead men.
5 And the Malak answered and said to the women, Fear not, for I know that you seek Ι̅H who was crucified.
6 He is not here: for he is risen, as he said; come, see the place where he laid.
7 And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and behold, he goes before you into the Galilees; there shall you see him: behold, I have told you.

Mark 16:5-7
5 And entering into the tomb, they saw a νεανισκον-young man seated on the right side, invested all about in a long white stole; and they were utterly astonished.
6 And he said to them, Be not astonished; you seek Ι̅H the Nazarene who was crucified: He is risen; He is not here: behold the place where they laid him.
7 But go your way, tell his disciples and Peter that He goes before you into the Galilees: there shall you see Him, just as He told you.

What therefore does Thomas mean when he says, "my Master and my El? :chuckle:

John 1:18a
18a No one has seen Elohim at any time:

1 John 4:12a
12a No one has beheld Elohim at any time:

^{In the Gospel of Peter the stone rolls away of its own accord, (no one out of over 500 actually saw the Malak seated over above).}

 

[daqq]

John 14:22 W/H
22 λεγει αυτω ιουδας ουχ ο ισκαριωτης κυριε τι γεγονεν οτι ημιν μελλεις εμφανιζειν σεαυτον και ουχι τω κοσμω
22 Says to him Yhudah, (not the Ysakariot), Adoni, what has come to pass that you are about to exhibit yourself to us and not to the world?

The question, "What has come to pass", or, "What has happened", is like saying, "What has changed", but it is not scripturally correct to say it that way because Elohim does not change. That is likely why it is worded the way it is; but the whole statement in the context in which it is found reveals a hidden kernel of truth. Some imagine a two hundred percent "God-Man", (one hundred percent God and one hundred percent Man, as they say), walking upon the water in one hundred percent material human physical flesh. Others imagine merely a one hundred percent human being walking upon the water in one hundred percent material human physical flesh. Still yet others read of something like a Phantasma walking upon the water, since that is indeed what is in the text and what the disciples and apostles thought they saw, and when they see this in the text they realize it is imagery, taken from the natural creation of Elohim, (though rare when it comes to ball lightning, St. Elmo's fire, Castor and Pollux, and such things, but well known to sailors from ancient times), and they "see" that the natural creation of Elohim is likely being used to describe supernal and supernatural things, such as Light, and Spirit, and Life: things which cannot actually be "seen" except in the sense of "seeing" by way of understanding, or perhaps more visually by way of night visions and dreams, (imagery). And they remember that it is written, No one has seen or beheld Elohim at any time.