ECT Things known for ages--Acts 15

[Lighthouse]

Here are your words exactly:

"The other writers when referring to whom they were writing in their salutations said it was to the 12 tribes."

So you did say that the other writers addressed their letters to the 12 tribes. I was right - only James did.

You have a reading comprehension problem. Do you not know the meaning of the word "when"? Read it again.

LH said specifically that the other writers (besides Paul) had specifically addressed their epistles IN THEIR SALUTATIONS to the 12 tribes. I called the bluff, at which time LH claimed to have not said that.

No, I didn't. Read it again.

LH made a very specific claim that wasn't true. Wasn't true then, isn't true now. The claim was that Peter, John, Jude, and the author of Hebrews addressed their epistles to the 12 tribes "IN THEIR SALUTATIONS".

That is not what I said. Read it again.

I've posted it several times. LH's exact words were:

"The other writers when referring to whom they were writing in their salutations said it was to the 12 tribes."

Again, note that the part of the statement I challenged was "in their salutations".

And you completely ignored a word. Read it again.

LH stated that Jude and other stated specifically in their salutations that their letters were "to the 12 tribes".

No I didn't. Read it again.

 

[SimpleMan77]

You have a reading comprehension problem. Do you not know the meaning of the word "when"? Read it again.


No, I didn't. Read it again.


That is not what I said. Read it again.


And you completely ignored a word. Read it again.


No I didn't. Read it again.

I think I see now the way you meant it. A couple of commas, placed in the correct places, would have really helped. I think you meant to say:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing in their salutations, said it was to the 12 tribes."

Still wouldn't have been perfect grammatically, but the commas would have helped. Here's how I read it:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing, in their salutations said it was to the 12 tribes."






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[Interplanner]

I think I see now the way you meant it. A couple of commas, placed in the correct places, would have really helped. I think you meant to say:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing in their salutations, said it was to the 12 tribes."

Still wouldn't have been perfect grammatically, but the commas would have helped. Here's how I read it:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing, in their salutations said it was to the 12 tribes."






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They are unable to accept the advanced meaning of tribes.

 

[SimpleMan77]

They are unable to accept the advanced meaning of tribes.

James addressed Christians within the literal 12 tribes of Israel.

However, in the epistles, specific instructions that are general in nature apply to all Christians. In other words, if Paul is addressing the church at Galatia, it applies to us today. If James is addressing Jewish Christians, it applies to us today.





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[SaulToPaul 2]

They are unable to accept the advanced meaning of tribes.

:chuckle:

"the advanced meaning"

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The reaching of the Gentiles for salvation was known for ages. It was happening before the apostles eyes.

No, according to prophecy the Gentiles would be saved through the agency of Israel:

"Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you...Surely you will summon nations you know not, and nations that do not know you will hasten to you, because of the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, for he has endowed you with splendor" (Isa.55:3,5).

Paul makes it plain that the salvation of the Gentiles was happening as a result of Israel's fall:

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" (Ro.11:11-12).

You need to learn to distinguish between things prophesised and things kept secret, between prophecy and mystery. Otherwise, you will remain confused.

 

[patrick jane]

:chuckle:

"the advanced meaning"

IP thinks it's a video game :rotfl:

 

[steko]

:chuckle:

"the advanced meaning"

Tribes of the Avant-garde!


View attachment 24954

 

[Interplanner]

No, according to prophecy the Gentiles would be saved through the agency of Israel:

"Give ear and come to me; hear me, that your soul may live. I will make an everlasting covenant with you...Surely you will summon nations you know not, and nations that do not know you will hasten to you, because of the Lord your God, the Holy One of Israel, for he has endowed you with splendor" (Isa.55:3,5).

Paul makes it plain that the salvation of the Gentiles was happening as a result of Israel's fall:

"I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy. Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?" (Ro.11:11-12).

You need to learn to distinguish between things prophesised and things kept secret, between prophecy and mystery. Otherwise, you will remain confused.

The Isaiah quote is about Christ; most of the last half of Isaiah is. Anyway your verse serves my point that reaching the Gentiles was known for ages. I thought you were going to quote something where it was not known.

As for the fall, the fall is not what caused it. It was an occasion for it, but the reason for going to the Gentiles with the promise give to Abraham is as far back as Gen 12. And some Jews who did not fall brought in many non-Jews (Paul, Apollos).

You need to reset your theology after realizing who is mixed up in Gal 3:17. Who replaced and voided the promise? Why? Get that sorted out and you'll see what is going on.

 

[Lighthouse]

I think I see now the way you meant it. A couple of commas, placed in the correct places, would have really helped. I think you meant to say:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing in their salutations, said it was to the 12 tribes."

Still wouldn't have been perfect grammatically, but the commas would have helped. Here's how I read it:

"The other writers, when referring to whom they were writing, in their salutations said it was to the 12 tribes."

Do you get the point?

James addressed Christians within the literal 12 tribes of Israel.

However, in the epistles, specific instructions that are general in nature apply to all Christians. In other words, if Paul is addressing the church at Galatia, it applies to us today. If James is addressing Jewish Christians, it applies to us today.

How so and based on what?

Does this stand if they contrast?

 

[Interplanner]

Do you get the point?


How so and based on what?

Does this stand if they contrast?

The whole sound of the NT about it as a community is undivided. Eph 4, which happens to be based on 1-3. There are no divisions, there are no Jewish this or Gentile that. 2P2P is fraudulent theology all through.

 

[SaulToPaul 2]

The whole sound of the NT about it as a community is undivided. Eph 4, which happens to be based on 1-3. There are no divisions, there are no Jewish this or Gentile that. 2P2P is fraudulent theology all through.

:chuckle:

Poor IP, still obsessed, fighting straw men.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The Isaiah quote is about Christ; most of the last half of Isaiah is. Anyway your verse serves my point that reaching the Gentiles was known for ages. I thought you were going to quote something where it was not known.

Yes, reaching the Gentiles was known for centuries, but the way that they were being reached at the time of Acts 15 was NOT according to prophecy. Instead it was a secret or a mystery truth. It was also a mystery truth that blindness in part would happen to Israel:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Ro.11:25).

The events of the present dispensation of the grace of God were kept secret and are not found in the OT and that explains the fact that the present dispensation is referred to as the "dispensation of the mystery."

 

[Lighthouse]

The whole sound of the NT about it as a community is undivided. Eph 4, which happens to be based on 1-3. There are no divisions, there are no Jewish this or Gentile that. 2P2P is fraudulent theology all through.

There is no Jew or Gentile within the Body; that doesn't mean the distinctions don't exist outside the Body.:dunce::duh:

 

[SimpleMan77]

What's the difference in these two scriptures?

Acts 3:18
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

These two scriptures say the same thing - the things spoken in the prophets foretold the mystery of what God was going to do in Christ.


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[Danoh]

Yes, reaching the Gentiles was known for centuries, but the way that they were being reached at the time of Acts 15 was NOT according to prophecy. Instead it was a secret or a mystery truth. It was also a mystery truth that blindness in part would happen to Israel:

"For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in" (Ro.11:25).

The events of the present dispensation of the grace of God were kept secret and are not found in the OT and that explains the fact that the present dispensation is referred to as the "dispensation of the mystery."

Actually, the mystery in that passage has to do with how long.

It's an answer to "how long?"

It's an answer to the question asked in Acts 1:6, as is 1 Thess. 5:1...

Both of which were first revealed to and through Paul after the Lord returned unto the Father and then appeared unto Paul to save him and commission him with the gospel of the UNcircumcision he himself was saved by.

Unbelieving Israel's temporary hardening was long prophesied.

How long, was not.

Paul is asserting the revelation through him now that said temporal hardening is "until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in."

By the way; how is your health?

Be well, brother. I was far too hard on you.

Yours in Him,

Eph. 4:16

 

[Lighthouse]

What's the difference in these two scriptures?

Acts 3:18
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

These two scriptures say the same thing - the things spoken in the prophets foretold the mystery of what God was going to do in Christ.

No. That Christ should suffer was not the mystery. See my response in the other thread as well.

 

[Danoh]

What's the difference in these two scriptures?

Acts 3:18
But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Romans 16:25-26
Now to him that is of power to stablish you according to my gospel, and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery, which was kept secret since the world began, but now is made manifest, and BY THE SCRIPTURES OF THE PROPHETS, according to the commandment of the everlasting God, made known to all nations for the obedience of faith:

These two scriptures say the same thing - the things spoken in the prophets foretold the mystery of what God was going to do in Christ.


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Depends on which Mid-Acts Dispensationalist you ask.

 

[SimpleMan77]

Depends on which Mid-Acts Dispensationalist you ask.

My point is that those MADs who say there is a difference between what Peter is saying in Acts 3:18 and what Paul is saying in Romans 16:25 like to say "Peter said the prophets had foretold this and Paul said it is a mystery that's been kept secret since the beginning".

They conveniently stop before verse 26, where Paul says that this mystery is now made known by the preaching of the scriptures of the prophets.

They are both pointing back to the prophets, and saying "you didn't understand what these scriptures in the prophets meant, but they were talking about Jesus Christ, the exalted Messiah".


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[Jerry Shugart]

Unbelieving Israel's temporary hardening was long prophesied.

Where in the OT do we read that Israel's status as "a people above all people" was going to be done away with? And where in the OT does it say that the Gentiles would come to the Lord due to Israel's fall?

Thanks!