The Wonderful Dispensation of Grace

[Bob Hill]

As I spent hours in the Bible in the years after I was saved, 1951, I had so many questions that I didn’t know what the Bible was really trying to tell us. When I went to college, I had a large amount of time to do whatever I wanted to do. I wanted to study the Bible, and I did for hours and hours.

I found that the most important truth the Bible shows is the progressive revelation over many dispensations (literally, house rules) and many years.

What man had to believe, essentially, has changed from dispensation to dispensation, or administration (oikonomia means house rule).

For instance, we see that Peter was saved, but the Scripture shows that early in Christ’s ministry, Peter did not understand that the death and resurrection of Christ was what was necessary for his salvation.

Later Paul was inspired by God to show how to be saved in our present dispensation, the Dispensation of Grace. 1 Co 15:1-4: “Moreover, brethren, I declare to you the gospel which I preached to you, which also you received and in which you stand, 2 by which also you are saved, if you hold fast that word which I preached to you - unless you believed in vain. 3 For I delivered to you first of all that which I also received: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the Scriptures.”

This salvation for us in this present dispensation of grace depended on believing certain things. Paul wrote, under inspiration, that the gospel of salvation in the Dispensation of Grace rested on the death, resurrection, and ascension of Christ.

In addition to understanding the finished work of Christ on the Cross and our salvation by faith, His grace and no works on our part, do we have to be water baptized in this present dispensation of grace, to have our sins forgiven? No!

But, under the dispensation when the 11 were presenting the message to the Jews after Christ’s resurrection, but before the body of Christ started with the salvation of Paul, Peter said they had to be water baptized to be saved.

Act 2:38 Then Peter said to them, Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

When Paul wrote to the Corinthians after the Dispensation of Grace had started, he explained to them, since he had been to Corinth, that it was Spirit baptism, now.

1 Co 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body - whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free - and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

The 12 apostles under the Gospel of the Circumcision preached that they had to be water baptized to be saved.

That is in great contrast to the message that God gave Paul to write and preach.

Paul wrote in 1 Co 1:17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.

Safe and secure in Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[lightninboy]

lightninboy,

Where?

Bob Hill

I appreciate you teaching eternal security for us today (Isn't your idea of eternal security rather Perseverance of the Saints, however?), and I am using this opportunity to learn more about salvation before the Church Age or the Days Of Grace or whatever.

John 6:47. John 3:16. Classic gospel verses.

http://faithalone.org/news/y1989/89jan3.html
http://faithalone.org/news/y1989/89feb3.html
http://faithalone.org/news/y1990/90nov2.html
http://faithalone.org/news/y1990/90oct1.html
http://faithalone.org/news/y1990/90may1.html

 

[Bob Hill]

lightninboy,

Your passages, John 6:47 and John 3:16 look good, but in that dispensation, even after they believed, they could fall away. We can’t. We are sealed unto the day of redemption.

When we look at John 5:24 & John 11:25,26, we see a different conclusion.

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

We must look at the underlying Greek. Daniel Wallace, a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, who believes similarly to you, wrote in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp. 620,621, “everyone (His bold, Greek, and italics.) who believes.

Here’s the important part.

“The idea seems to be both gnomic and continual: “everyone who continually believes.” This is not due to the present tense only, but to the use of the present participle of (pisteuw), especially in soteriological contexts in the NT.”

Then in the f.n. 22, he wrote, “The aspectual force of the present (ho pisteuwn) seems to be in contrast with ho pisteusas. . . The present occurs six times as often (43 times), most often in soteriological contexts (cf. John 1:12; 3:15, 16, 18; 3:36; 6:35, 47, 64; 7:38; 11:25; 12:46; Acts 2:44; 10:43; 13:39; Rom 1:16; 3:22; 4:11, 24; 9:33; 10:4, 11; 1 Cor 1:21; 14:22 [bis]; Gal 3:22; Eph 1:19; 1 Thess 1:7; 2:10, 13; 1 Pet 2:6,7; 1 John 5:1, 5,10, 13). . . The present was the tense of choice most likely because the NT writers by and large saw continual belief as a necessary condition of salvation.”

That’s why it is significant that God inspired Paul to write additional statements about the believer’s security by being sealed and predestined.

I also would like to include a passage from God’s writer of the book of James, and my response.

James was very clear about continuing in belief and doing the Law.

Jam 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty [the Mosaic law] and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law [the Mosaic law] according to the Scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [Then he threw in the clincher. He showed that they were still under the Mosaic Law. Paul wrote that we are not under the Law but under grace. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

The extended context of these writings of the Circumcision Apostles, especially John in the book of Revelation, showed they were under the Law, while Paul’s writings show we are not under the Law.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[lightninboy]

[quote from Pastor Hill's website] After you trusted Christ as your savior, we find that you were sealed by the Holy Spirit. How long were you sealed? Until you sinned? Until you fell away? No! It says in Ephesians 4:30 that you were sealed until the day of redemption. After the day of redemption, we’ll be home in glory. We won’t need to be sealed any more.

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not1 the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 6:47
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Pastor Hill, even if saving faith is described as continuous, God must honor His word by giving everlasting life to one who believes upon Christ for it. Salvation is instantaneous. Jesus indeed said that whosoever believeth on Him has everlasting life.

http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1997/97nov1.html
http://www.faithalone.org/news/y2004/wilkin5.html

Okay, read this:
This is a problem of association. Four major ministries of the Holy Spirit occur today at the moment one believes in Christ. I remember it with the acronym RIBS: regeneration, indwelling, baptizing, and sealing.
Today, RIBS. Prior to Pentecost, RS. After the Rapture, RIS. But one thing has been true and will be true in every dispensation: all who believe that the Messiah guarantees everlasting life to all who simply believe in Him are regenerate people (R). Regeneration bridges every dispensation.

http://www.faithalone.org/news/y2004/wilkin2.html

 

[Bob Hill]

lightninboy wrote:

[quote from Pastor Hill's website] After you trusted Christ as your savior, we find that you were sealed by the Holy Spirit. How long were you sealed? Until you sinned? Until you fell away? No! It says in Ephesians 4:30 that you were sealed until the day of redemption. After the day of redemption, we’ll be home in glory. We won’t need to be sealed any more.

John 3:36
"He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not1 the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."

John 6:47
"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life."

Pastor Hill, even if saving faith is described as continuous, God must honor His word by giving everlasting life to one who believes upon Christ for it. Salvation is instantaneous. Jesus indeed said that whosoever believeth on Him has everlasting life.

However, it says in Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

They had it and could lose it. We have it and cannot lose it because we are sealed unto the Day of Redemption.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

John 15:1-6 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. :doh:

They did not have eternal security like we have in the Dispensation of Grace.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

lightninboy,

When we look at the use of the word, born, or begotten, we see that people who believe are born of God. John 1:12,13, “But as many as received [Aorist tense, completed action.] Him, to them He gave the authority/power to become children of God, to those who are believing [present participle] in His name: 13 who, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God were born.” [My translation.]

The New Testament always conditions personal salvation upon faith or belief on the part of the recipient. Does John 1:12 say: “But as many as Christ died for, to them gave He power to become the sons of God, even to them who were elected,” or, “But as many as received him, to them He gave power to become children of God, to those who are believing in His name?”

Did Paul tell the Philippian jailer: “Christ died for you, hence you are saved,” or, “Believe [This is an aorist, active, imperative.] on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shall be saved?” There is no hint in the New Testament that the efficacy of the death of Christ is ever applied to a sinner apart from personal faith and trust in Jesus Christ.

Zeroing in on John 1:12: “But as many as received Him, to them He gave the authority/power to become children of God, to those believing in His name.”, we must look at the Greek underlying this passage.

Daniel Wallace, a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, who believes an Acts 2 beginning of the church, wrote in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp. 620,621, “everyone (His bold, Greek, and italics.) who believes.” The idea seems to be both gnomic and continual: “everyone who continually believes.” This is not due to the present tense only, but to the use of the present participle of pisteuw, especially in soteriological contexts in the NT.” Then in f.n. 22, he wrote, “The aspectual force of the present [participle] ho pisteuwn seems to be in contrast with ho pisteusas. . . The present occurs six times as often (43 times), most often in soteriological contexts (cf. John 1:12; 3:15, 16, 18; 3:36; 6:35, 47, 64; 7:38; 11:25; 12:46; Acts 2:44; 10:43; 13:39; Rom 1:16; 3:22; 4:11, 24; 9:33; 10:4, 11; 1 Cor 1:21; 14:22 [twice]; Gal 3:22; Eph 1:19; 1 Thess 1:7; 2:10, 13; 1 Pet 2:6,7; 1 John 5:1, 5,10 [twice & 1 perfect], 13). . . The present was the tense of choice most likely because the NT writers by and large saw continual belief as a necessary condition of salvation.”

It's only in our present Dispensation of Grace that we have eternal security.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Nomad]

Bob, in an some other place you mentioned that the dispensationalism helped you understand that Bible? I was wondering what parts are inexplicable without it? If you could address that here or start a new thread for that, that would be great

-Nomad

 

[Bob Hill]

When we look at John 5:24 and John 11:25,26, and look at the underlying Greek, we see a different translation than what most translations say.
John 5:24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.
John 11:25,26: Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in Me, though he may die, he shall live. 26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die.

Do you believe this?” We must look at the underlying Greek. Daniel Wallace, a professor at Dallas Theological Seminary, who believes similarly to those of you who are not Mid-Acts Dispensationalists. Wallace wrote in his Greek Grammar Beyond the Basics, pp. 620,621, “everyone who believes The idea seems to be both gnomic and continual: “everyone who continually believes.” This is not due to the present tense only, but to the use of the present participle of pisteuw, especially in soteriological contexts in the NT.” Then in the f. n. 22, he wrote, “The aspectual force of the present ho pisteuwn seems to be in contrast with ho pisteusas . . . The present occurs six times as often (43 times), most often in soteriological contexts (cf. John 1:12; 3:15, 16, 18; 3:36; 6:35, 47, 64; 7:38; 11:25; 12:46; Acts 2:44; 10:43; 13:39; Rom 1:16; 3:22; 4:11, 24; 9:33; 10:4, 11; 1 Cor 1:21; 14:22 [bis]; Gal 3:22; Eph 1:19; 1 Thess 1:7; 2:10, 13; 1 Pet 2:6,7; 1 John 5:1, 5,10, 13). . . The present was the tense of choice most likely because the NT writers by and large saw continual belief as a necessary condition of salvation.”

That’s why it is significant that God inspired Paul to write additional statements about the believer’s security by being sealed and predestined.

:tunes: :tunes:

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Nomad,

It clarified the problems of salvation being by faith works or faith alone. In the gospels, they had to have faith and works. In the Dispensation of Grace, we have to trust in Christ as our savior. When we do, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We cannot lose our salvation like they can in other dispensations.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Nomad]

Nomad,

It clarified the problems of salvation being by faith works or faith alone. In the gospels, they had to have faith and works. In the Dispensation of Grace, we have to trust in Christ as our savior. When we do, we are sealed by the Holy Spirit. We cannot lose our salvation like they can in other dispensations.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

wait, why did they need to have works and faith in the Gospels?

 

[Bob Hill]

Nomad,

I also would like to include a passage from James and my response. James was very clear about continuing in belief and doing the Law.
Jam 1:22 But be doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves. 23 For if anyone is a hearer of the word and not a doer, he is like a man observing his natural face in a mirror; 24 for he observes himself, goes away, and immediately forgets what kind of man he was. 25 But he who looks into the perfect law of liberty [the Mosaic law] and continues in it, and is not a forgetful hearer but a doer of the work, this one will be blessed in what he does. 2:8 If you really fulfill the royal law [the Mosaic law] according to the Scripture, You shall love your neighbor as yourself, you do well; 9 but if you show partiality, you commit sin, and are convicted by the law as transgressors. 10 For whoever shall keep the whole law, and yet stumble in one point, he is guilty of all. 11 For He who said, Do not commit adultery, also said, Do not murder. Now if you do not commit adultery, but you do murder, you have become a transgressor of the law. [Then he threw in the clincher. He showed that they were still under the Mosaic Law. Paul wrote that we are not under the Law but under grace. 12 So speak and so do as those who will be judged by the law of liberty.

The extended context of these writings of the Circumcision Apostles showed they were under the Law, while Paul’s writings show we are not under the Law.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Nomad]

But James there isn't talking about salvation (as I've understood it), he is talking post-salvation and arguing for the intimate relationship with loving Christ and loving the Law.

James later writes: 2: 14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

Paul in 1 Corinthians 9:21To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God's law but am under Christ's law), so as to win those not having the law
[From when Paul's talking about being all things to all people for the purpose of Christ]

What is Paul talking about in reference to 'God's law'?

 

[Bob Hill]

Acts 10:34-37 Then Peter opened his mouth and said: “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. 35 But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him. 36 The word which God sent to the children of Israel, preaching peace through Jesus Christ - He is Lord of all - 37 that word you know, which was proclaimed throughout all Judea, and began from Galilee after the baptism which John preached."

"whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him." That's not what God requires in this present Dispensation of Grace.

In the Dispensation of Grace, God does not require works for our salvation, He requires that we, individually, believe that Christ died for us.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

 

[Bob Hill]

Nomad,

You need to answer some of my questions before you expect me to keep answering your questions.

Bob

 

[Nomad]

Nomad,

You need to answer some of my questions before you expect me to keep answering your questions.

Bob

What questions?

edit: and I'll be out for a bit

 

[lightninboy]

Your passages, John 6:47 and John 3:16 look good, but in that dispensation, even after they believed, they could fall away.

Jesus said that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:16 is The Gospel In A Nutshell. The whosoevers are all mankind, not just the people alive at the time He said it.

We are sealed unto the day of redemption.

That piece about RIBS I showed you said that Old Testament saints were sealed unto the day of redemption too.

However, it says in Heb 6:4-6 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Here is an alternative interpretation.
http://faithalone.org/news/y1992/92july3.html

John 15:1-6 “I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Here is an alternative interpretation.
http://www.faithalone.org/news/y1994/94may3.html

The New Testament always conditions personal salvation upon faith or belief on the part of the recipient.

Did I say that it didn’t?

It's only in our present Dispensation of Grace that we have eternal security.

What about after Jesus said John 3:16, if not before that?

In the gospels, they had to have faith and works.

Abraham, David, John the Baptist, the thief on the cross, and Cornelius and his household, were all saved by grace through faith in Christ, plus nothing.

 

[aikido7]

When you talk about having to assent to a list of requirements, you're not talking about grace.

 

[Lon]

Thanks again Bob

Thanks again Bob

Lonster,

I just made a post, but now I saw your post. Thank you for your kind words.

When I was saved, I was discipled by two strong Calvinists. Yes, I became a Calvinist.

As I really began studying on my own, it wasn't too long before my Calvinistic armor had holes in it.

Fifty five years later, I have changed my mind on portions and parts of the Bible about 5,000 times.

I'm still open and an Open theologian.

In Christ,
Bob

I'm in the same theological boat.

Wouldn't most dispensationalists see your point? or would they consider it a form of hyper-dispensation? I'm still working on this aspect of Theology btw and have some Covenant Theology ideas still circling so I'm in no way resolved on this subject.
As to Calvinist though, I have the same shot-up armor but I think that it's a good thing because some Calvinists, while remaining Calvinists are doing some pretty good assessment.

 

[Lon]

Predestined

Predestined

The circumcision epistles of Peter, James and John do not apply to us in the area of salvation.

Both of these sets of principles are of God who shows mercy. But, although the methods of salvation are different for the different dispensations, the means of God’s grace is always the same. It is the death of Jesus Christ His Son. 1 John 1:7 “But if we walk in the light as He is in the light, we have fellowship with one another, and the blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin.”


Therefore our salvation is not predestined at all in this passage. What is predestined is the whole process of salvation after we have the faith - when we believe. Rom 8:29,30 “For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.”

God determined everyone who believed in Christ in this Dispensation of Grace, would be justified and glorified.

In Christ,
Bob Hill

How do Hebrews and Jude play into that list if at all?

I can see that point well and appreciate it for it's exegesis but I'd have to make a great move from a Covenant/dispensational hodgepodge of my understanding to concede. I'll work over those scriptures though so thank you for the thoughtful post.

I had to cut down the size to post the quote but left the ideas I latched onto. Thank you

In Him