SaulToPaul 2
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That's an interesting analysis, Rockfish.
ECT The whole Tribulation period is the wrath of God
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That's an interesting analysis, Rockfish.
Oh, that's real funny, Mayor. Why don't you go down to your local police station, with your "made in the back seat" of your car business card, posing as an FBI agent, proving it, with "the" FBI handshake, and getting your photo taken, in "Glamour Shots?" I'd bet that would cause old J. Edgar, to ROFLOL,in his grave, Mayor.
SaulToPaul 2
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As long as I get to eat dinners with and kiss Beth Davenport while receiving free legal representation, it is worth it saint john!
Well, I suppose chicks dig you, like Jimmy, as it is quite amazing, that you can get hit on your head in working out, by those 215 pound weights, and, like a cartoon character, and Jimmy, not be affected at all. You and your Firebird seem to be bullet proof.
SaulToPaul 2
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How is it then that Jimmy took a pistol to the back of the neck in every episode, and went out like a light?
It's a mite curious. And I saw an episode just recently, where Rocky was pummeled, hit in the head at least 3 times, punched in the gut, thrown on the floor, and then, 1 minute later, he's doing his Jesse Owens impression, running down the crooks. And, after the crooks throw him into a ditch, when Jimmy finds him, he apologized, with his usual , "I'm sorry, Rocky,....," and a few hours later, it seems that both of them were seen doing their Marl Spitz/Michael Phelps impression, diving off 200 feet high diving boards, and participating in another round of Nascar races locally.
There was/is no delay in God bringing in the Kingdom of God with all of the resurrected saints ruling over all of the earth.
It has not happened yet--
Rev 11:11 And after three days and an half the Spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
Rev 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
Rev 11:14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Rev 11:16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
Rev 11:17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the sayings of the prophecy of this book.
Rev 22:8 And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things.
Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
LA
whitestone
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lol,you just like to crow Tet,,,they were asking him when he was going to come(1st coming=Luke 19:38 KJV) not the lords coming="2nd coming",,,they didn't understand he was going to leave and then return,they thought he was there to stay and quizzing him on how he would fulfill the "one coming/king" if those buildings would be destroyed like he was saying.
Interplanner
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Right, as far as them thinking he was there to stay. But they didn't think the whole world needed to be destroyed/remade, and they thought (by their concern about the buildings) that there had to be a Judaistic theocracy.
Yes, they had been bought up with, and almost completely surrounded with, that way of thinking.
One must put aside all mans thinking and hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
It requires the sacrifice of oneself to achieve that.
Salvation requires not only that Christ died but that we should die with Him.
_(beginning with willingness to place self on the altar, as did Abraham with Isaac, in giving back to God what He has made us, not for the use of self but for His use.
Then we will hear the promises of God in their true light, as Abraham did.
LA
Interplanner
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'what the spirit says to the churches'? How about just listening to Christ in contrast to what Judaizers and Judaizing zealots wanted to do?
Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.
Get a clue, Interplanner...
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Gal 3:29 And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
LA
SaulToPaul 2
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:chuckle:
Interplanner
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The clue would be the fulfillment of this in Christ. In Judaism they thought it was fulfilled through the law which they were so strict about in the Intertestament period and beyond. So in the gospel of John, they are quite insensed to hear that He, Christ, is the manna of life instead of the Law, etc.
Thanks to LA for quoting Gal 3 on this, which is NEVER mentioned that I know of in 2 years of MAD trying to explain themselves. How incompetent and mentally deficient are they?
whitestone
Well-known member
I find it fascinating that when their is a discussion about the Lords coming we all differ in what we think about it. In Matt.24 some say it is past to us others future,others as partial ect. in it's fulfillment. At first this is frightful because as Christians, we,we would think would hold to a similar position on these events,but we don't.
Considering that these are prophecies(eschatology),and that we are resolving(or trying to) their fulfillment's and ascribing a time/event to them results in the many "camps" that exist in Christianity today. It is to me though fascinating to read through the many takes on them by different individuals.
That said though,Many among the forums on the www today use one method or another, using it as some type of system to categorize,separate,organize ect. the different subjects in the bible. We say before and after the deluge and after the flood but before Abraham. To us there is before the law of Moses and we see a point before the old and new covenants,some holding one date past and others future.
I say this because I note that you often say of Matthew 24 "parts A and B...". I am not offended by it,I note that others do this(Catholics,A,B,C.D. ect.) but many others also. I suppose this depends on which method of learning/school they attended and the instructors style.
I myself have an system that I employ but mine to others might seem primitive. I am not learned in the different schooling's(schools) as to their methods,I did not finish high school nor attend any collage.
As for me I as I read in scripture bare in mind that it's division into verses and chapters and the way it is bound into an bible are things that were later added as a type of method,system,order ect.
Seeing this I am compelled to read it as though looking for a change from one subject matter to another (in this case Matthew 24:3 KJV =the three questions) and so then following along from the time they ask in verse three until Jesus ends addressing the three questions in Matthew 25:46 KJV ,that is there is an closing statement of subject change in Matthew 26:1 KJV.
Now the importance of what the "disciples" themselves were thinking when they ask the three questions out weighs any of our opinions(in this case "coming=1st"). Jesus had tried to explain that he would suffer,die and be taken up ect. but the disciples did not understand it but they always seemed to think he was there to stay and as king establish a theocracy on earth and that they would not be under the rule of Rome,Greece,Egypt ect. but that those nation's would bow down to their authority so to them I think thats what they were asking. In the other Gospels there are only two questions but the answers from Jesus are similar as to "coming" so I take it that the parallels to Matthew 24:3 KJV in the others are worded different but they not understanding the concept of "second coming" also intended the same questions being ask to Jesus.
In my mind I see them entering into the golden gate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_Gate_(Jerusalem) and them singing Luke 19:38 KJV (the word "cometh") http://biblehub.com/greek/3952.htm .
And then they went back out through the same gate, walked down into the Kidron valley,crossed the brook and went up into the olive trees on the mount and the disciples turned around and pointed back to the gate and the buildings and Matthew 24:1 KJV ( that is they could see the gate and the buildings from there).
The word "come,coming,cometh,came ect." the Lord uses in an continuing fashion in his answer all the way through until the subject is changed in Matthew 26:1 KJV ,,,"at my coming","shall come in his glory",,"son of man cometh",,"delayeth his coming","the coming of the son of man be" ect. but Jesus from the beginning of his address is answering verse Matthew 24:3 KJV all the way through to Matthew 25:46 KJV based on the usage of the word "coming". But what he described is not what they were thinking at that time.
In Acts 1:6 KJV they ask him the same thing about the restoration of the kingdom to Israel so they still saw it that same way. Jesus then said what was actually going to happen to them in Acts 1:8 KJV so they(the disciples) still did not understand this.
In John 14:26 KJV they were told that the comforter would "teach them,bring into remembrance" all the things Jesus had said. Now the Lord had said to them the things about the kingdom and his DBR but they did not understand it until the comforter came. The thing is in Acts 3:20-21 KJV Peter still thinks that if that the Lord would be sent to establish the "restitution". So even after the day of Pentecost the Jewish theocratic nation and the King(Jesus) is what he(Peter) thought to be "coming",or that it would be "sent".
That word "coming" I note does not mean "going" as if we "go to it" as in when we die we "go to it in the afterlife" in Heaven. Instead "coming" infers that it is to come "from" somewhere(Heaven),and that it is "sent" somewhere(earth). And so both before and after Peter and the others received the comforter it was a restored kingdom on earth in their minds.
Anyway I realize that we all may see these things differently(lol) so I thought I would give my thoughts on it and why. I apologize for the lengthily response.
Whitestone, regarding YOUR conclusion that Peter is clueless in Early Acts...
You are actually asserting that the Spirit was clueless.
Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
There is that issue.
And then there is this one.
Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
Notice that Peter does not understand what that vision was about.
The Spirit was not correcting Peter, rather; He was updating him on a change in things on God's part.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Note the next passage - this WITNESS OF a change in the order of things midway through Acts TOWARDS what God would BEGIN doing among the Gentiles through Paul, had not yet reached them all.
11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Note what happens next.
Acts 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 11:23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
You are actually asserting that the Spirit was clueless.
Matthew 10:17 But beware of men: for they will deliver you up to the councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues; 10:18 And ye shall be brought before governors and kings for my sake, for a testimony against them and the Gentiles. 10:19 But when they deliver you up, take no thought how or what ye shall speak: for it shall be given you in that same hour what ye shall speak. 10:20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.
Acts 4:1 And as they spake unto the people, the priests, and the captain of the temple, and the Sadducees, came upon them, 4:2 Being grieved that they taught the people, and preached through Jesus the resurrection from the dead. 4:3 And they laid hands on them, and put them in hold unto the next day: for it was now eventide. 4:8 Then Peter, filled with the Holy Ghost, said unto them, Ye rulers of the people, and elders of Israel,
There is that issue.
And then there is this one.
Acts 10:17 Now while Peter doubted in himself what this vision which he had seen should mean, behold, the men which were sent from Cornelius had made enquiry for Simon's house, and stood before the gate, 10:18 And called, and asked whether Simon, which was surnamed Peter, were lodged there. 10:19 While Peter thought on the vision, the Spirit said unto him, Behold, three men seek thee. 10:20 Arise therefore, and get thee down, and go with them, doubting nothing: for I have sent them. 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men which were sent unto him from Cornelius; and said, Behold, I am he whom ye seek: what is the cause wherefore ye are come?
Notice that Peter does not understand what that vision was about.
The Spirit was not correcting Peter, rather; He was updating him on a change in things on God's part.
Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
Note the next passage - this WITNESS OF a change in the order of things midway through Acts TOWARDS what God would BEGIN doing among the Gentiles through Paul, had not yet reached them all.
11:19 Now they which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen travelled as far as Phenice, and Cyprus, and Antioch, preaching the word to none but unto the Jews only.
Note what happens next.
Acts 11:22 Then tidings of these things came unto the ears of the church which was in Jerusalem: and they sent forth Barnabas, that he should go as far as Antioch. 11:23 Who, when he came, and had seen the grace of God, was glad, and exhorted them all, that with purpose of heart they would cleave unto the Lord. 11:24 For he was a good man, and full of the Holy Ghost and of faith: and much people was added unto the Lord. 11:25 Then departed Barnabas to Tarsus, for to seek Saul: 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.
whitestone
Well-known member
Actually thats part of what I did consider is Matthew 10:17 KJV compared to the scriptures up to Acts,9,10,11. Why I say this is that if they were told to "take no thought" about what they would say and that they would be "given in the same hour" the things to say then they didn't know until then.
As it seems though they believed that the Lord would be sent to return to the earth and establish the kingdom on earth if they repented and confessed Jesus as the Messiah Acts 3:19-21 KJV (so they were preaching the kingdom message and if Israel would have repented he would have returned then),,,
Now but they did not repent and confess the Messiah so by Acts 9(Paul)then is separated out and his Gospel begins. At the same time Peter has the vision in Acts 10,recounts it to the disciples in 11 then by 15 they are having council because of it.
This is why I see it that way(I'm open for correction if in error) but it seems to me that the kingdom was offered to Israel(on earth) up to Acts 9,10 and the Kingdom message will resume when they fulfill Luke 19:38 KJV (repent and confess Jesus as the one coming/King.
I think that will not happen until they do and that they are blinded in part until the times of the gentiles are full Luke 21:24 KJV Romans 11:25 KJV (they still are awaiting the false Messiah,2016,,and don't accept Jesus).
As in the O.P. the Gospel of Grace will have concluded(1st Resurrection,rapture)and then they will resume from the point that Peter was stating in Acts 3:20 KJV . This is the hurdle Galatians 1:8 KJV 2 Corinthians 11:4 KJV that is what will they think in that day when they are told Paul's Gospel is no longer in effect and that the Gospel of the kingdom(kingdom on earth) has now began again? A year ago or so me and you spoke of this a little I referred to it as an overlapping similar to then but it will be in reverse when this disp.ends and the mill. begins.
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Yep.
Nor at Jerusalem.
Luke 21:28 And when these things begin to come to pass, then look up, and lift up your heads; for your redemption draweth nigh.
Luke 24:21 But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.
24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken: 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory? 24:27 And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself.
1 Peter 1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Jesus Christ: 1:8 Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls. 1:10 Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you: 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow. 1:12 Unto whom it was revealed, that not unto themselves, but unto us they did minister the things, which are now reported unto you by them that have preached the gospel unto you with the Holy Ghost sent down from heaven; which things the angels desire to look into. 1:13 Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;
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