Can you admit that you might be wrong? Is that possible?
The Trinity
- Thread starter Bright Raven
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glorydaz
Well-known member
Yes, all throughout the OT, we see Jesus referred to....here as the Lord of Hosts in Isaiah. Also in that chapter you'll see Immanuel (God with us), the same name our Lord is called in Matthew.
Unfortunately, for many, He is the stone upon which they stumble....denying He is the Lord of Hosts, Creator, Redeemer, Immanuel, "OUR GOD", and Saviour.
Too bad they refuse to listen...unteachable and filled with stubborn pride. :nono:
Romans 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Isaiah 8:13 Sanctify the Lord of hosts himself; and let him be your fear, and let him be your dread. 14 And he shall be for a sanctuary; but for a stone of stumbling and for a rock of offence to both the houses of Israel, for a gin and for a snare to the inhabitants of Jerusalem. 15 And many among them shall stumble, and fall, and be broken, and be snared, and be taken.
Matthew 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Isaiah 8:8 And he shall pass through Judah; he shall overflow and go over, he shall reach even to the neck; and the stretching out of his wings shall fill the breadth of thy land, O Immanuel.
Unfortunately, for many, He is the stone upon which they stumble....denying He is the Lord of Hosts, Creator, Redeemer, Immanuel, "OUR GOD", and Saviour.
Too bad they refuse to listen...unteachable and filled with stubborn pride. :nono:
glorydaz
Well-known member
I love the way Clete cuts right to the chase. He's pretty good at telling when someone is a total waste of time. Dust off the sandals and move on.
The Word IS Jesus.
Keypurr, there's a difference between having a body prepared and having a human being prepared. Which does this verse say was prepared?
How does that go against what I've been saying? God the Father sent God the Son to live on this earth.
That agrees with what I've been saying this entire time, Keypurr.
Disagreeing with the truth makes you wrong, Keypurr. You can't argue with the truth. You'll lose every time. You really are emotionally invested in this. Otherwise you would have admitted you are wrong, at least on this point.
No, Keypurr, you answer my questions.
Yes, He did, and you cannot prove otherwise, yet I have shown you over and over again USING SCRIPTURE that the Son, the Word, and Jesus are the SAME PERSON.
Who better to make known God but God Himself, in fact, the best way for God to make Himself known would be to send the express image of His person, His Son, Jesus Christ, the living God.
Keypurr, if the Father is God, and Jesus is God, and the Father sends the Son, Has God not manifested Himself in the flesh?
Has not God made Himself known by the Father sending the Son?
Manifest means to show or to prove.
Jesus stated that "If you have seen Me you have seen the Father."
That's a statement of evidence. Jesus is living proof that God exists, because He IS God.
Keypurr, What would it take for a being to claim to be God and be correct?
What part of "The Word became flesh and dwelt among us" do you not understand?
No Keypurr. The Greek says "THE God." In fact, it says "the God" twice, once about the Son and once about someone else (either the Father or the Holy Spirit, and I'm leaning towards the Holy Spirit). Greeks were polytheistic, so saying "The God" can only be referring to the ONE TRUE GOD.
Because Elohim is Hebrew, and the passage was written in Greek. Hebrew wasn't used to write most of the New Testament, especially not this passage.
That's why.
This coming from someone who says that the Church has lied about Scripture.
Not only are you a liar, a heretic, stubborn, and probably not a Christian, but you're a hypocrite too.
ALL of my arguments have been purely Biblical, and you revert to using commentary from someone who is clearly not using Scripture as his guide to understanding scripture, but his own opinion.
You HYPOCRITE!
No, Keypurr, no assumptions. That's how logic works. If A=B and B=C, then A=C.
You have no argument, do you?
*facepalm*
Jesus was anointed BY the Holy Spirit, just like a prophet would anoint a king in the Old Testament.
Again there is no proof of a trinity, speculation at best. And you should not use a questionable verse to prove your point
The Spirit of God is the Holy Spirit, WHO IS GOD!
All you can do at this point is insult me, is that it? Because you have nothing to stand on.
What?
Both God the Father and God the Son are called "Redeemer" by SCRIPTURE.
No, It doesn't, Keypurr. Once again, you ignore the context in favor of your own theology.
FORGET YOUR THEOLOGY! Look at what scripture says, and believe that. Look at the context of what is being said, and don't try to read your ideas into Scripture. Let it speak for itself.
Keypurr, not only have I done so already, but I've done it MULTIPLE TIMES USING ONLY SCRIPTURE!!
I have already addressed this. It's not my fault you don't bother to read what I have said.
No, Keypurr. The Son IS GOD.
Read what I said again. If that verse says that the Son created all things, and Genesis 1 says that GOD (ELOHIM) created all things, they can't both have created all things unless they were the same person. If A=C and B=C, then A=B
No Keypurr. Not "a god." The God of the Universe.
The head of a household is the father, and the son submits to the father. Just like Jesus submits to His Father. But that does NOT mean that Jesus is not God. But all of that is irrelevant, because that's not what the passage is talking about. It's talking about Head coverings. (NO, not whether it's ok to wear a hat in church or not or if women should have long or short hair, but that a man is a covering for a woman, and Christ is the covering for man, that when another man looks at the woman, he sees the man, and when God looks at man, He sees Christ.) Don't try to rip things out of context Keypurr.
No, Keypurr, I embrace it for the reason I stated above.
So no comment on what I said about the baby in the womb?
Keypurr, Read Acts 10:38.
how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power, who went about doing good and healing all who were oppressed by the devil, for God was with Him. - Acts 10:38 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Acts10:38&version=NKJV
Where do you see the "Word" in that verse?
It's not there, is it?
There's the Holy Spirit, there's power, but no Word.
Then why in the world would you use John 14:10 to say that the Word was in Christ? If it says the Father (who is not the Word) is in Christ, then why change "Father" to "Word"? At best it's dishonest.
Yes, it does, Keypurr.
You can think that all you want, that doesn't make it a translation error. It was translated correctly.
The Word is Jesus (John 1:14). God is the Word (John 1:1). Therefore Jesus is God.
Why do you think that the Son and Jesus are two different people? Why? There's no proof of it, no evidence, and NO ONE ELSE BUT YOU BELIEVES IT.
Do you not plan on responding to the rest of my post, where I use Revelation to show that Jesus is the one calling Himself God? Or do you concede that point?
They prove his point quite well.
The word used for "power" is literally "power." there's no hidden meaning there.
If what is in your heart does not match what is required, then it won't matter if you have the best intentions in the world. If you're wrong, you will be ground into powder.
Keypurr, as far as I'm aware, no one here is denying that the church should be teaching more of the Bible than what they are currently.
But that's not the issue here. You seem to think that because one church is wrong, then they're all wrong.
As someone who has been debating you the last few weeks, even taking your age into consideration, I can say you do a horrible job with your answers.
Says the one who abandoned the church altogether in favor of his own understanding.
keypurr
Well-known member
We have one God. That's right. ONE.
One God, who is manifested in THREE PERSONS.
God the Father.
God the Son.
God the Holy Spirit.
keypurr
Well-known member
The Trinity
He was anointed with POWER. HE was given the power that was in the logos spirit. The spirit of God (logos) went IN him. God was IN by way of the logos.
Open your eyes JR, Jesus was NOT born the Christ, he became the Christ. That is when God said that this was his Son.
Your blinded by the dark traditions that your not letting the light into your life. No one love the Lord Jesus more than I do, but he is not God. He has a God, the logos was the first of all creation (creatures).
Read the scriptures, Christ is a creature, firstborn of all creation.
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They prove his point quite well.
The word used for "power" is literally "power." there's no hidden meaning there.
If what is in your heart does not match what is required, then it won't matter if you have the best intentions in the world. If you're wrong, you will be ground into powder.
Keypurr, as far as I'm aware, no one here is denying that the church should be teaching more of the Bible than what they are currently.
But that's not the issue here. You seem to think that because one church is wrong, then they're all wrong.
As someone who has been debating you the last few weeks, even taking your age into consideration, I can say you do a horrible job with your answers.
Says the one who abandoned the church altogether in favor of his own understanding.
He was anointed with POWER. HE was given the power that was in the logos spirit. The spirit of God (logos) went IN him. God was IN by way of the logos.
Open your eyes JR, Jesus was NOT born the Christ, he became the Christ. That is when God said that this was his Son.
Your blinded by the dark traditions that your not letting the light into your life. No one love the Lord Jesus more than I do, but he is not God. He has a God, the logos was the first of all creation (creatures).
Read the scriptures, Christ is a creature, firstborn of all creation.
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You have ignored every verse I have posted so far.
That does not conflict with the Trinity.
Try reading, for once:
And:
You have to prove that we are wrong, first. But you can't, because we use Scripture as our points. Therefore, you would have to refute Scripture, or at the very least, show that our interpretation of Scripture is wrong, to do so.
You haven't made any headway in that direction yet though...
Yeah, well, you've already been proven wrong, so it doesn't matter what you think. The only thing that matters here is Truth. Not opinion.
No one that I know of. I didn't say that, did you?
The point is that there are things that you do have to believe. You don't get to just believe anything you like and still meaningfully call yourself a Christian or rationally consider yourself to be saved.
If you think that this statement qualifies you as a saved Christian then you aren't saved either. The demons in Hell believe that Jesus is the Son of God, for crying out loud!
This is just so much juvenile silliness. You don't even do this! When you meet a Buddhist, do you presume him to be unsaved or do you leave that up to God to decide? When you drive by the meeting place of the cult that meets in your local area (Mormons or whatever) do you presume them all to be lost and separated from the true God or do you let God make that decision?
Words mean things, marhig! And I can read. The Christian faith is a whole lot more than a mere intellectual assent to the fact that Jesus is God's Son and our trying to submit ourselves to God's will. What a pathetically shallow understanding of the gospel. I agree that there are a wide range of varying beliefs within the Church and that some, if not most of them are minor differences that have little or no effect on whether that person is saved. But Christian doctrine is not so malleable that there isn't a point at which a line has been crossed taking one into place that can no longer rightly be called Christianity. Sometimes this line can be rather difficult to discern but most times it isn't hard at all and when there is a doubt, I give people the benefit of that doubt and presume that they are NOT saved. What good am I doing to someone who is on the wrong side of that line by presuming that they are saved or divorsing myself from the responsibility of even making the judment?
I'll ask you a question...
Why did it have to be Jesus who died? Why couldn't it have been someone or something else?
Resting in Him,
Clete
Wrong. The Holy Spirit anointed Him with power.
It doesn't say anything about God taking power from the Word and giving it to Jesus. Stop reading your theology into scripture.
Again, STOP READING YOUR THEOLOGY INTO SCRIPTURE.
The Holy Spirit alighted on Jesus. That's what Scripture says. It DOES NOT say that the Spirit "entered" Him.
Jesus became the Christ because "Christ" ("Christos") is Greek for Messiah, which is Hebrew for "anointed one." Jesus was anointed with Power.
"Christ" is not a separate person. It is a TITLE bestowed upon Jesus because Jesus was ANOINTED.
As for the timing of when God called Jesus His Son, IT'S IRRELEVANT! The entirety of Jesus' baptism happened in a few seconds, not minutes. SECONDS!
Leaning on your own understanding.
Arrogance, pride, boasting.
Anti-Christ.
Lies, deceit, twisting of scripture.
More twisting of Scripture to satisfy your theology.
None of those attributes come from Christians.
You are apparently blind. Forget imagination, you can't even see what's right in front of you.
Scripture calls Jesus GOD.
Yeah? Mormons say the same thing.
I'd have to agree with you on this one - for the most part.
Actually, no you're not right. Hitler and even Satan himself also had/have the courage of their convictions. It's only a virtue if your conviction are true.
So do Mormons and Jehovah Witnesses.
YOU ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN!
You don't have the faintest idea what the gospel is!
I agree that going to church doesn't make you a Christian but Sunday certainly isn't Satan's day and being saved has nothing to do with what we do. The doing of Christianity is an effect, not a cause.
Mormons express their love for God and for Jesus all day long and twice on Sunday's. They'll all burn in Hell.
All Trinitarians do the same, Keypurr! There is no proof text you can reference that will disprove the Trinity doctrine. It doesn't exist. You're disproving something in your mind that seems to have nothing to do with what the doctrine of the Trinity teaches. What's more is that you are not open to correction on this. You insist that the Trinity doctrine is some form of poly-theism and the simple fact is that it isn't.
Resting in Him,
Clete
You knew when you wrote this that this isn't what I was doing. That makes this yet another stupid thing you've said. You really need to think through what you're saying before you start shooting your mouth off. Make some effort to understand what someone is saying before jumping down their throat.
You should! Just exactly as do all Trinitarians.
I just repeated it. Still don't get it?
There isn't a Trinitarian alive (or dead) who would disagree!
What does that mean for your argument, marhig?
Think it through!
What does that mean?
The people on this site that are a complete waste of time outnumber everyone else by a large factor. I can't keep track of them all so I use the ignore list to segregate those who are not worth the time it takes to type these posts up (i.e. people who aren't interested in having rational, two-way conversations or who have proven incapable of it). So long as I can detect some iota of an attempt to be substantive, then there won't be a need to toss you in with the rest of the idiots that populate this website.
Right Divider
Body part
The LORD Jesus Christ was with God in the beginning.
John 17:5 (AKJV/PCE)
(17:5) And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.