The Trinity

[glorydaz]

Wait... if the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us... who is it making intercession towards?

I thought there was one mediator between God and men? Christ Jesus.

So if the Spirit makes intercession for us,
But Jesus is the mediator between God and men,

That just equated the Spirit with Jesus.

1 Timothy 2:5 KJV
(5) For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;


What does a mediator do? It intercedes on behalf of one to the other.

Let's just look at what a mediator actually does.....he makes peace. CHRIST gave Himself a ransom on behalf of all mankind's sin.

1 Tim. 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

Yes, Christ was mediator as man and as God. He qualified.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.​

As for the intercession in Hebrews it's as to the priesthood....not as mediator.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​ Heb. 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

When Jesus was resurrected, He sent the Holy Spirit to make intercession for us.

 

[marhig]

It's called "incognito." Marhig, pretend for a moment that God came to earth and said "I am the LORD your God" and proved it by tossing a few bolts of lightning about and swallowing a few cities into the earth. Now step forward in this thought experiment for a moment. Would they have crucified him?

Incognito? Jesus Christ shows us to he's not the father!

And the following makes it clear that Jesus isn't the father.

He came to do the father's will
He was sent by the father
He said that the father had given him work to finish and that he does his work.
He says that the father has given him power over all flesh.
He was anointed by the father
He prayed to the father and not only prayed but fell on his face and prayed to him.
He is set on the right hand of the father.
He is set in his father's throne. With the father.
He said he and the father will make their abode in us.
He said that without the father he could do nothing and that the father is greater than he.
He said that he was going to be with his father.
He says he came from the father.
He taught us to pray to our father.
As he prayed to the father, He said eternal life is to know you the only true God as Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
He asked the father to forgive those who crucified him.
He said nobody comes to the father except through him.
He spoke to the father and said into your hands I commend my Spirit.
He said that he has been given authority over all heaven and earth, from whom? The father.

And there's these verses

Matthew 11

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

John 5

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set himat his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:And hath put al things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

And all of John 17 makes it pretty clear that Jesus isn't the father!

 

[MichaelCadry]

You call yourself a prophet after saying that?

Do you not know God the Father is Spirit?

Do you not know Jesus is the Spirit?

There is only one Spirit, it proves that they are three and the same.

Dear God's Truth,

I won't even bother addressing you about this. You just don't get it. Yes, there are three and yes they are the same. I never said they weren't.

Michael

 

[MichaelCadry]

Dear All,

The Spirit of God, the Father, was in Jesus' soul. That is how He can be called the 'mighty God' or the 'everlasting Father.' This does not separate the fact that the Father was different from the Son. Some of you just aren't seeing this. And the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, is the same as God, but He is different and the same also. The Holy Spirit is in God, the Father, and in Jesus, the Son. You just don't see things the way that the Father wanted you to. I give up on you. Find out when you go to Heaven and face the Father, and the Son, and the Holy Ghost; three separate but One, beings, who are the same in Spirit.

With God's Grace,

Michael

 

[popsthebuilder]

Baphomet comes to mind. You can Google that if need be, I don't want to post a picture on this forum. Or if you use "she" then Venus or "the Goddess" is the next association.

God always presents himself as "he" even with "I am he" as identification. I really don't want to resort to the hammer approach here. Do you understand why when God says "I am he" you shouldn't be saying "God is she?"

Either provide the scripture saying we must refer to almighty GOD, the One Creator GOD, as he, or please desist altogether. I've made it clear, or tried, to make it clear, that I am looking for scripture that stated we are to refer to GOD ALMIGHTY as he. Or scripture saying not to refer to GOD as IT or she would too work. Even scripture saying GOD (Spirit) has a sexuality at all would suffice.
Without those, the topic is dead in the water.



I don't care that GOD is referenced as he, I want the command. Wait... Wait.... There isn't one, so please do stop after you explain why you referred to pagan god's when you know good and well I am not.

Hammer? I like hammers

 

[popsthebuilder]

Words matter.....Genesis 22:8 And Abraham said, My son, God will provide himself a lamb for a burnt offering: so they went both of them together.

Uhm, I'm not sure Abraham lying to his son is a reference of Jesus being GOD. That was a keen inference though.

 

[God's Truth]

Dear God's Truth,

I won't even bother addressing you about this. You just don't get it. Yes, there are three and yes they are the same. I never said they weren't.

Michael

The trinity doctrine says they are distinct/different.

However, the Bible shows us that they are the exact same.

 

[God's Truth]

You just live in your own little world, don't ya?:dead:

You live in your own little world. You are going to argue now that you are not going against me for preaching that we have to believe and obey to get saved and to stay saved? HAHAHAHAHAAAAA
You ALWAYS do that. Over all these years that we have been debating you always say that.

Faith alone is DEAD and it CANNOT SAVE anyone; James 2:14, 17, 20, 22, 24.

That is your beliefs is it not? Did you forget? You preach faith alone and go against me for saying we have to obey. Did you forget?

 

[God's Truth]

No duh? :chuckle:

Look at that Rossenritter, she says 'no duh' when you said she doesn't understand.
She thinks she can twist it to make what we say twisted and strange.
Some craftiness I would say. Now the one without understanding is bragging that she doesn't understand and is trying to humiliate you for understanding.

 

[God's Truth]

Golly, could it possibly be that He'd already explained about sending the Spirit to dwell in us?

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;​

I know....do yourself a favor and read the entire chapter. Then I won't have to keep spelling this out for you, and you'll be spared the effort of telling me I don't understand perfectly.

The Holy Spirit isn't a proxy for the Father and Jesus. Jesus is the one Spirit who is also the Father.

 

[God's Truth]

Thanks, but I asked for scripture specifically saying basically what you just said; that it is wrong to do so.

As far as your analogies are concerned; you sound like one of the polytheists attempting to squirm out of admitting that GOD isn't limited to a person, or three, or the attributes or attitudes there of, yet that is what they try to convince others of, then when you say you understand and agree with the trinity doctrine , just not the coeternal nature of the material son, they say oh you don't understand, you don't get it. To which I should say "no ads, I get it, ibis you who equates man and the material vessel to the almighty GOD. What I am saying is that your analogy is not really applicable here.

What name did I ascribe to GOD almighty by declaring it isn't a he or she technically?

We are not to go beyond what is written. We are not to add or subtract. God calls Himself 'Father'. Why would you ever say 'Mother' or 'She' when the Bible says that nowhere? The Bible says it nowhere, and, it is not revealed by careful consideration. God the Father is not an 'It' or a 'She'.

 

[God's Truth]

:rotfl:

And there could have been Martians, too.

The Bible does not say 'Martians'. The Bible explains that there were angels before humans, and, the angles were called sons of God.

 

[God's Truth]

Let's just look at what a mediator actually does.....he makes peace. CHRIST gave Himself a ransom on behalf of all mankind's sin.

1 Tim. 2:6 Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.​

Yes, Christ was mediator as man and as God. He qualified.

Galatians 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.​

As for the intercession in Hebrews it's as to the priesthood....not as mediator.

Hebrews 7:25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​ Heb. 7:24 But this man, because he continueth ever, hath an unchangeable priesthood. 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.​

When Jesus was resurrected, He sent the Holy Spirit to make intercession for us.

Your explanation to save the false trinity doctrine makes the Bible inconsistent and confusing.

There is only ONE MEDIATOR. There is only ONE INTERCESSOR.

That Spirit living inside the saved---that Spirit is Jesus Himself.

Jesus says that he HIMSELF will live in the saved.

John 17:26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."


Nothing there about a proxy Holy Spirit, or should I say ANOTHER SPIRIT doing the living for Jesus in the saved.

There is ONLY ONE MEDIATOR, there is ONLY ONE SPIRIT. The Lord IS the Spirit.

That is truth revealed in the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

Incognito? Jesus Christ shows us to he's not the father!

And the following makes it clear that Jesus isn't the father.

He came to do the father's will
He was sent by the father
He said that the father had given him work to finish and that he does his work.
He says that the father has given him power over all flesh.
He was anointed by the father
He prayed to the father and not only prayed but fell on his face and prayed to him.
He is set on the right hand of the father.
He is set in his father's throne. With the father.
He said he and the father will make their abode in us.
He said that without the father he could do nothing and that the father is greater than he.
He said that he was going to be with his father.
He says he came from the father.
He taught us to pray to our father.
As he prayed to the father, He said eternal life is to know you the only true God as Jesus Christ whom you have sent.
He asked the father to forgive those who crucified him.
He said nobody comes to the father except through him.
He spoke to the father and said into your hands I commend my Spirit.
He said that he has been given authority over all heaven and earth, from whom? The father.

And there's these verses

Matthew 11

All things have been handed over to Me by My Father; and no one knows the Son except the Father; nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and anyone to whom the Son wills to reveal Him.

John 5

The Father loves the Son and has given all things into His hand.

Ephesians 1

That the God of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of glory, may give unto you the spirit of wisdom and revelation in the knowledge of him: The eyes of your understanding being enlightened; that ye may know what is the hope of his calling, and what the riches of the glory of his inheritance in the saints,And what is the exceeding greatness of his power to us-ward who believe, according to the working of his mighty power, Which he wrought in Christ, when he raised him from the dead, and set himat his own right hand in the heavenly places, Far above all principality, and power, and might, and dominion, and every name that is named, not only in this world, but also in that which is to come:And hath put al things under his feet, and gave him to be the head over all things to the church, Which is his body, the fulness of him that filleth all in all.

And all of John 17 makes it pretty clear that Jesus isn't the father!

When you see Jesus, you can say, "I see the Father".

 

[popsthebuilder]

We are not to go beyond what is written. We are not to add or subtract. God calls Himself 'Father'. Why would you ever say 'Mother' or 'She' when the Bible says that nowhere? The Bible says it nowhere, and, it is not revealed by careful consideration. God the Father is not an 'It' or a 'She'.

I am not going beyond what is written by the influence and Spirit of GOD.

Is this a division among us? I have clearly made my request to you and others.
I do not doubt that the title Father brings about inferences that the Spirit is a he, but I do recall you yourself saying the observable qualities of GOD can equally be too ascribed to male and female characteristics, or something very similar.

Does a male alone beget life of itself or is the seed needed? But GOD is One and need no thing; so is the capacity to produce within GOD alone?

Is male alone long suffering and often merciful?

Does male alone nurture and bring up?

Does male sustain the infant with milk?

I ask one last time for you to substantiate your words against my very faith with the sacred writ we hold with such esteem, and do look to for straightening and edification.

Please show me within context that the Spirit requires us to refer to IT as a male and nothing but.

If you cannot do this, then I ask that you please consider your next post, if you are with me or not. For my words are in no way against the Spirit, and if they are, may GOD be so gracious and merciful as to make it evident and manifest through HIS written Word.

peace

 

[God's Truth]

Either provide the scripture saying we must refer to almighty GOD, the One Creator GOD, as he, or please desist altogether. I've made it clear, or tried, to make it clear, that I am looking for scripture that stated we are to refer to GOD ALMIGHTY as he. Or scripture saying not to refer to GOD as IT or she would too work. Even scripture saying GOD (Spirit) has a sexuality at all would suffice.
Without those, the topic is dead in the water.



I don't care that GOD is referenced as he, I want the command. Wait... Wait.... There isn't one, so please do stop after you explain why you referred to pagan god's when you know good and well I am not.

Hammer? I like hammers

God says plainly that He is the 'Father'.

Those who go outside what the Bible says and says God is a she too, and a mother, or an it, those people are adding and subtracting from what is written. You do know that we are warned not to do that?

 

[popsthebuilder]

When you see Jesus, you can say, "I see the Father".

And we see Jesus in Spirit, not in the flesh of another.

 

[popsthebuilder]

God says plainly that He is the 'Father'.

And to you that means He lacks the seed, or capacity to produce of Itself?

 

[God's Truth]

I am not going beyond what is written by the influence and Spirit of GOD.

Is this a division among us? I have clearly made my request to you and others.
I do not doubt that the title Father brings about inferences that the Spirit is a he, but I do recall you yourself saying the observable qualities of GOD can equally be too ascribed to male and female characteristics, or something very similar.

No. I went against you when you said God had feminine qualities.
How is it that you give kindness and gentleness a female, or feminine characteristic?
As if when Paul cried, or when Jesus himself cried it was the female side of him.
No. God is love, and love is God. The Father is love, and you don't try to say that is another side not spoken of in the Bible.

Does a male alone beget life of itself or is the seed needed? But GOD is One and need no thing; so is the capacity to produce within GOD alone?

Right, so why are you trying to add another half to God that is not there?

Is male alone long suffering and often merciful?

Again, is that a feminine quality?
No, it is not reserved for credit to the female race.

Does male alone nurture and bring up?

A male who nurtures is not more feminine.

Does male sustain the infant with milk?

God does not need breasts to feed us and give us milk. He is God and calls Himself 'He' and 'Father'.

I ask one last time for you to substantiate your words against my very faith with the sacred writ we hold with such esteem, and do look to for straightening and edification.

Easy. Do. not. go. beyond. what. is. written.

1 Corinthians 4:6 Now, brothers and sisters, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, "Do not go beyond what is written." Then you will not be puffed up in being a follower of one of us over against the other.

Do not add or subtract:

Deuteronomy 4:2; Revelation 22:19.

Do not lean to the left or to the right:

Proverbs 4:27.

Do not make for yourself your own traditions.

Mark 7:13.

Please show me within context that the Spirit requires us to refer to IT as a male and nothing but.

The Spirit is referred to as a 'He'.

The Spirit came as a male child and grew to be a Man.

To say that God is also a Mother is not in the scriptures.

 

[God's Truth]

And we see Jesus in Spirit, not in the flesh of another.

The scriptures tell us that when you see Jesus, you can say I see the Father.

As for you saying we see Jesus in Spirit and not in the flesh of another...I have no idea what you mean.

God's truth is for little children, and it does not cause confusion.

I think that you are getting confusing.