Lon
Well-known member
You sort of bring it on yourself, with overt challenging and inane ridicule. Perhaps you don't mean to, but as I'm reading, I've noted this (also why I refrained and offered prayer instead - that and it was off-topic from the thread intent in your and my case).I will tolerate a little bit of name calling here and there and a few cheap jabs maybe, but you carry on the way you are and our discussions will stop. There is simply no need for such rudeness in a adult conversation, either fix up and pull yourself together or refrain from talking to me.
You don't have to reply to any of this, just observations about delivery rather than substance debated....
To me, a bit pressed, a bit too persnickety. It took me a bit to get E.E's writing style. At times, he's still a bit global rather than concrete sequential. I think, like my post to you here, that you are talking more about delivery than substance. I'm not sure it needs to challenged this overtly when the topic material is more important. Does it matter, in the end, if he is quoting scripture or using his own words? Try this: "Can you explain your use of scriptures here to me, a bit further than just pasting them?" It this a sit-down or yell-posturing out the window between the Kingdom Hall and the Evangelical church across the street? I'm not really accusing, just trying to get a conversation between you two going. It 'seems' a taunt from across the street to me. If that is all you are looking for, it may have some purpose, I'm just asking.You did not use your words, you simply quoted scripture in reply to particular point I made. I can copy and paste the conversation if you like or you can stop your pointless lying. I suggest that the trinity teaches that Jehovah is one and you quoted three scriptures, Deuteronomy 6:4, Genesis 1:26 and 1 Thessalonians 5:23, you made no personal comments when doing so. Therefore I don't know how "you totally used words"???
All debates have purposes. If you can 1) Figure out the other guy's and 2) figure out what you want from the discussion, somewhere from the outset, you'll be more happy, I think, with the results. As far as most "God is not Triune" threads, It is generally just posturing. Some of it helps others who are studying a matter out, perhaps, but generally they do not change sides. I'm horrible (for my introspection by example) at being arrogant with Arians/Unitarians. It isn't entirely my fault, I've literally known too many and know their academic prowess. It taints conversations.So when I said you are unable to defend your own beliefs I wasn't wrong, I asked you numerous questions and raised numerous issues, your rebuttal and answer to those was to show me a link :Letsargu: A discussion works two ways, you talk I talk, you ask I answer, I ask you answer.
Why are showing me a link? Can't you defend what you believe to be true yourself instead of copy and pasting a post you made regarding a general topic of the anti-Christ? You expect a lot from me but give nothing in return... apart from your cheap insults.
However, "I'll pray" is a good way to get out of my own impatience and not express it (like I've done here). Generally I come to these threads 1) after being asked to address something in particular 2) I am reading along what a friend or acquaintance has written. 3) Sometimes, just to give the orthodox perspective and as I said, to pray for people.
:up: Try to remove 'failed' from your sentence and I think this is a better approach.Here are some points and questions you failed to address in my last post to you, you're under no obligation to answer. However a discussion, as already mentioned, generally involves listening, asking questions and answering questions. If you're incapable of any one of these I suggest you quit while you're ahead.
Spoiler
If there can be ONLY saviour how is it possible that Othniel (Judges 3:9) and Ehud (Judges 3:15) are referred to as saviour using exactly the Hebrew term as applied to God in Isaiah 43:11 that you mentioned? According to Judges 3:9,15 does scripture allow for their to be more than one Savior?
When God the Father subjected "all things" or gave "all authority" to Jesus, was God the Father himself included? Whether a yes or no please give an explanation, even if it's brief, so I can better understand your position.
If the classical trinitarian teaching is that Jehovah is one, who is three persons, and also that Jehovah is one according to Deut 6:4, why is it you claimed I'm telling lies when stating this? Am I incorrect, if so how?
Thanks for referring me to your thread.
Hold up there, not everyone on TOL is capable of exegesis. Generally, however well we do in language, that is our ability to diagram sentences and use context to answer questions. You'd want to simply 'do' exegesis' and do more leading. I generally talk about what a sentence means, and refer back and further into a text for its contextual placement. Sometimes I'll post a Greek sentence and translate it simply if the objection is over the structure of the sentence, just so people know what is and is not there in a word-for-word conveyance.Why am I not surprised that you again refer to someone else's writing and not produce your own exegesis regarding the scriptures I use along with my reasoning.
We can call names, without calling names, and the slight is not missed. Sometimes we invite what we get.Says the person who can only copy and paste, use reasoning relevant to the discussion.
Laughable.
Is it true he can 'only' copy/paste? What kind of person 'can only' copy/paste? When we say such is 'laughable' what does that convey regarding 'can only copy/paste?'
I do this condescending thing too, and am always trying to edit it out of my posts before I submit. I'm not trying to get a response and again no need to respond. I'm just giving you a sounding board, if it helps. People don't generally do this for me, but I always appreciate when they do, and so I try to return that, for good. That's my only agenda. If it doesn't help, at least you know my attempt.The only thing worth mentioning that I read in what you posted
It is an accusation. I'm sure it is understood and justified from your perspective. For me? Trying to get involved further would start me engaging your topic, and that isn't my intent. Obviously there is disagreement and so posturing on this particular.was in when comparing Isaiah 45:23 and Phil 2:10,11. You make the claim that since Isaiah 45:23 says "To me every knee will bend, Every tongue will swear loyalty" in regards to Jehovah and Phil 2:10,11 has "every knee" bending to Jesus, that Jesus must be the Jehovah of Isaiah 45:23.
What you fail to understand is the position Jesus holds in relation to worship and God the Father. We worship God the father THROUGH Jesus, "no one comes to the Father, except through me" (John 14:6), to deny Jesus is to deny the father since Jesus is the representative of the Father. Much like the Jews rejected God as King when rejecting Samuel as Judge over Israel (1 Samuel 8:7), by rejecting Jesus you reject the Father who sent Jesus.
Scriptures work. Anyone can look them up and double-check as a Berean and study the matter out. It is my go-to as much and as often as I can muster it. Often, I will only post a scripture. Proverbs 18:24 for instance. I'm not sure how two uncompromising sides can do so across the street out the window. For me, prayer had to be my response. Neither of us are going anywhere.As stated we worship the Father, not Jesus, by worshipping through Jesus. Thus we have Phil 2:10,11 that shows the Father Jehovah is the one who receive ultimate worship. We can clearly see Jesus words in John 14:6 being applied by every knee bending to Jesus, but that praise and glory doesn't go to Jesus, but rather through him and to the Father.
Since the Father is the one who ultimately receives the glory from the bending of the knee it is proper that knee in effect bend to Father, but through Jesus. Therefore what is said in Isaiah 45:23, if applicable, presents no issue, since, it simply qualifies the final outcome of glorification that goes to the Father Jehovah, leaving out the means by which it got there.
(Isaiah 64:8) "..But now, O Jehovah, you are our Father.."
(Isaiah 45:23) "..By myself I have sworn; The word has gone out of my mouth in righteousness, And it will not return: To me every knee will bend, Every tongue will swear loyalty.."