The Trinity

[Jerry Shugart]

Isaiah 45:5 - "I am the LORD and there is no other, there is no God besides me."
Isaiah 45:6 - "Men may know that there is none besides me. I am the LORD, there is no other."

Here we see a plurality in the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man in his own image" (Gen1:26,27).​

Here God is spoken of as being a plurality. This is a case of a "compound unity," a concept which is spoken of here:

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery" (Eph.5:31-32).​

This concept is above the reasoning of our finite minds and that is why Paul calls it a "mystery." Nevertheless, the concept of "compound unity" is found in the Bible and that same concept applies to the Godhead.

The Bible reveals that there is One God in three Divine Persons. That is why we read of the "name" (singular) of God here:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt.28:19).​

Now let us look at this verse again:

"And God('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Andrew Jakes writes the following about the name 'elohiym :

"This name then, (in Hebrew, 'elohiym,) is a plural noun, which, though first and primarily used in Holy Scriptures to describe the One true God, our Creator and Redeemer...First then this name, though a plural noun, when used of the one true God is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular. We are thus prepared, even from the beginning, for the mystery of a plurality in God, who, though He says, 'There is no God besides me,'and 'I am God, and there is none else,' says also, 'Let us make man in our image,after our likeness;' and again, 'The man has become like one of us;' and again at Babel,'Go to, let us go down and confound their language;' and again, in the vision granted to the prophet Isaiah, 'Whom shall we send, and who will go for us.' And this mystery, though hidden from an English reader, comes out again and again in the many other texts of the Holy Scripture.

"For 'Remember thy Creator in the days of they youth,' is literally, 'Remember thy Creators.' Again, 'None saith, Where is God my Maker?' is in the Hebrew, 'God my Makers,' " (Andrew Jakes, The Names of God [Grand Rapids, 1967], 16-17).​

 

[keypurr]

Well, you were created, but if you weren't? You.

WAAAAAY better than you. I am arrogant too but tend to know when I'm outclassed. You don't


You ARE your own image.

No, I am the subject of my image.

:nono: This is just you being stubborn and unable to give up an idea. An image reflects 'what is ALREADY there!'

The reflection itself is an image.

Er, so instead of listening to hundreds, thousands, millions, I should listen to just Keypurr and .05 of the church population?????????

Might be a good Idea Lon

I am intelligent. By the numbers, you think you are 99.05% better. That's arrogant. I know my IQ. I can tell your's within about 10 numbers.

Smarter and about 50 points higher as to IQ.

I question that. You more educated but I think you lack a lot for the education you have.

Right. God cannot exist unless He does. A father who is a husband, is the same person.

Apples and Oranges.

A mirror is NOT the image. It 'shows' the image. You are simply playing goofy to fit your ill-conceived doctrine. Images are not created. All media that show an image, are. I can paint an image of an apple. I did NOT create the apple or the image. Rather, it is said I 'captured' the image.

When you look in the mirror you have created an image in the mirror. when you walk away it goes too.
To paint an image of an apple you need to know what an apple looks like, right?

:chuckle: One of us did. You are so committed to error, you are redefining words and concepts to fit your preconceptions and notions. That
is NOT intelligence, or open to God and His teaching. That is cultic.

I completely disagree with you. You are not the only one that messes this up, but it is still wrong.


:doh: I and Right Divider explained why it doesn't support you at all.

The masses did not agree with Jesus either. Many are called but FEW are chosen. Are you chosen Lon?

 

[keypurr]

1 Timothy 3:16

1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.


manifest = to make known

God sent his Son, not himself.

 

[keypurr]

Here we see a plurality in the Godhead:

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God created man in his own image" (Gen1:26,27).​

Here God is spoken of as being a plurality. This is a case of a "compound unity," a concept which is spoken of here:

"For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. This is a great mystery" (Eph.5:31-32).​

This concept is above the reasoning of our finite minds and that is why Paul calls it a "mystery." Nevertheless, the concept of "compound unity" is found in the Bible and that same concept applies to the Godhead.

The Bible reveals that there is One God in three Divine Persons. That is why we read of the "name" (singular) of God here:

"Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit" (Mt.28:19).​

Now let us look at this verse again:

"And God('elohiym) said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness... So God ('elohiym) created man in his own image" (Gen.1:26,27).​

Andrew Jakes writes the following about the name 'elohiym :

"This name then, (in Hebrew, 'elohiym,) is a plural noun, which, though first and primarily used in Holy Scriptures to describe the One true God, our Creator and Redeemer...First then this name, though a plural noun, when used of the one true God is constantly joined with verbs and adjectives in the singular. We are thus prepared, even from the beginning, for the mystery of a plurality in God, who, though He says, 'There is no God besides me,'and 'I am God, and there is none else,' says also, 'Let us make man in our image,after our likeness;' and again, 'The man has become like one of us;' and again at Babel,'Go to, let us go down and confound their language;' and again, in the vision granted to the prophet Isaiah, 'Whom shall we send, and who will go for us.' And this mystery, though hidden from an English reader, comes out again and again in the many other texts of the Holy Scripture.

"For 'Remember thy Creator in the days of they youth,' is literally, 'Remember thy Creators.' Again, 'None saith, Where is God my Maker?' is in the Hebrew, 'God my Makers,' " (Andrew Jakes, The Names of God [Grand Rapids, 1967], 16-17).​

Jerry you only posts half truths.

You have no idea what I have been posting for the past five years.

The our/we/us in Genesis is God the Father and his spirit son.

In what way is man made in the image of God? God is a spirit.

Can you see God like you see a man?

 

[Lon]

No, I am the subject of my image.

watch:

No, I am .... my image.

"subject of" is the modifier of 'image." Do you understand English?
Do you understand why your addition is simply cognitive dissonance?

The reflection itself is an image.

Which is just reflexive, Keypurr see here You are simply saying "an image is an image."

Might be a good Idea Lon

I don't believe it wise.

I question that. You more educated but I think you lack a lot for the education you have.

It doesn't matter. I know what your academic prowess is.

Apples and Oranges.

:nono:

]When you look in the mirror you have created an image in the mirror.

It will serve no purpose to try to teach you contrary.

To paint an image of an apple you need to know what an apple looks like, right?

You are working so hard to dismiss me that you don't realize you are clinging and clingy. I think you honestly take pride in Unit-Arianism.

The masses did not agree with Jesus either.

The masses followed Jesus. He had 'crowds' wherever He went. Did you used to spend time with JW's?

Many are called but FEW are chosen. Are you chosen Lon?

You are allowing yourself a lie in arrogance. As far as chosen: If I am, I stand before my Maker. If not, I stand before my Maker. I honor the Son 'just as' I honor the Father. JW's don't. You don't and won't you say. We will stand before our Maker because of our choices, both stupid and/or right.

 

[JudgeRightly]

No it doesn't BR, the WORD, (logos) became flesh, not God.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The SON came to us BR.

He came to bring light and dwell in the Lamb of God.

Open your mind to the truth.

Keypurr, let's follow a line of logic, for a moment, that is based on scripture.

The Son of God is God (Heb. 1:8, Ps. 45:6)
God is the Word (John 1:1)
Therefore the Son of God is the Word.

Jesus was called Christ well before his baptism (Mat. 2:4)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mat. 16:16, Mat. 16:20, Mar. 1:1, Mar. 14:61-64)
The Son of God became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)
Therefore Jesus is the Son of God.

Ergo, Jesus is God.

Just a note about John 1:14 that most people don't even realize. The word used for "dwelt" in that verse is '?σκ?νωσεν', which literally means to tabernacle, or to live in a tent. This is only one of a few times this word is used in the New Testament. It's the only time it's used in John, and the other 4 times are in Revelation, and is not used anywhere else in the New Testament. In John 1:14, the Word (aka the Son of God, aka God, aka Christ) became flesh and tabernacled among us.

Keypurr, when does a new person (just talking about humans, for now) come into existence?
A) At conception, when the egg is fertilized by the sperm
B) At birth
C) At some point after birth

 

[JudgeRightly]

Nope it doesn't, it says he was born to Mary.

I think something you are forgetting is that "Jesus" (Greek "IESOUS") was just a name given to the Son of God. While, yes, there was a physical body "created" inside of Mary's womb, an image of God, because Man was created in God's image, the Son of God, who is one of the three eternal Persons of the Godhead, the Trinity, tabernacled, or made His tent, in the new body that was inside Mary's womb. In order for me to continue this line of thought, though, I need you to reply to the question in my previous post.

Philippians 2 is more about the logos than Jesus. The logos came in the likeness of man by dwelling in Jesus.

The Logos and Jesus are one and the same.

Jesus was the Lamb, the sacrifice for mankind and he HAD to be a MAN to do it.

See the segment below the line at the bottom of this post....

It does not say JESUS came down from heaven.

"Jesus," again, is just a name given to the Son of God. So yes the Bible does say that Jesus came down from heaven.

No man has seen God, it is the logos (spirit son) that dwelled IN Jesus that came down. This logos spoke and acted through Jesus.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? - John 14:7-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John14:7-9&version=NKJV

Jesus Himself says "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

Keypurr, the best way to know what the Father is like is to look at His Son.

Until you understand the express image in Hebrews 1 you will be confused on this matter.

Heb 1:1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Heb 1:4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.

I think you need to listen to this again, when you have time.
http://kgov.com/bel/20150813

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Keypurr, what is the price of sin? Can any man pay that price and have eternal life? No, because the price of sin is death (both physical and spiritual), but God's gift is eternal life.

Can that price be measured, or given any amount? No. It's price is too high for any man to even imagine, let alone think he can pay it off.

Keypurr, what is the most valuable thing in all of existence? Wouldn't that be God? So if the price of sin is too high for man (or any created being, for that matter), then wouldn't you think that the only thing (and I use that word loosely) that has infinite value be able to used as payment for sin? In other words, would God have to sacrifice Himself to pay the price?

But isn't that exactly what God did? By sending God the Son to die on a cross for us? See, by saying that "Jesus" is separate from "the Son" and is a separate creature, you undermine completely and absolutely the reason God sent His Son to Earth.

By saying the Son is not God, you completely and absolutely undermine God's sacrifice for us, and when you undermine that, you undermine the message of salvation.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Can you see God like you see a man?

Before the Lord Jesus was made a little lower than the angels He was in the form of God:

"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men" (Phil.2:5-6).​

The Greek word translated "form" means "the form by which a person or thing strikes the vision; the external appearance" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

So when those in heaven will see the ONE on the "Throne of God and of the Lamb" they will see both the Lord Jesus and God at the same time because He is God:

"And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him: And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads" (Rev.22:3-4).​

Here is how the Lord Jesus is described as He is now sitting in heaven:

"Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting. Now unto the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only wise God, be honour and glory for ever and ever" (1 Tim.16-17).​

The only wise God!

 

[keypurr]

Keypurr, let's follow a line of logic, for a moment, that is based on scripture.

The Son of God is God (Heb. 1:8, Ps. 45:6)
God is the Word (John 1:1)
Therefore the Son of God is the Word.

I only agree that the Son of God is a god or a created form of God.

Jesus was called Christ well before his baptism (Mat. 2:4)
Jesus Christ is the Son of God (Mat. 16:16, Mat. 16:20, Mar. 1:1, Mar. 14:61-64)
The Son of God became flesh and dwelt among us (John 1:14)
Therefore Jesus is the Son of God.

Matthew was written years after the fact. Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with the spirit son at his baptism. The spirit Son came down to become flesh in the body prepared for it, Jesus. It was then God declared that this was his Son.

Ergo, Jesus is God.

Assumption on your part.

Just a note about John 1:14 that most people don't even realize. The word used for "dwelt" in that verse is '?σκ?νωσεν', which literally means to tabernacle, or to live in a tent. This is only one of a few times this word is used in the New Testament. It's the only time it's used in John, and the other 4 times are in Revelation, and is not used anywhere else in the New Testament. In John 1:14, the Word (aka the Son of God, aka God, aka Christ) became flesh and tabernacled among us.

Your still assuming but I agree that he came to dwell in his tent, Jesus.

Keypurr, when does a new person (just talking about humans, for now) come into existence?
A) At conception, when the egg is fertilized by the sperm
B) At birth
C) At some point after birth

[/QUOTE]

What does Genesis say about that?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I go with B for person.

 

[JudgeRightly]

I only agree that the Son of God is a god or a created form of God.

Then you don't believe scripture.

Matthew was written years after the fact. Jesus became the Christ when he was anointed with the spirit son at his baptism. The spirit Son came down to become flesh in the body prepared for it, Jesus. It was then God declared that this was his Son.

His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it;but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances.So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him.Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart.And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. - Luke 2:41-52 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:41-52&version=NKJV

Keypurr, who is Jesus talking about when he says, "I must be about My Father’s business"?

Assumption on your part.

No, not an assumption. If A = B and B = C, then A = C.

Your still assuming but I agree that he came to dwell in his tent, Jesus.

I'm not assuming anything, Keypurr. See above.

And see my previous post, too.

What does Genesis say about that?

Gen 2:7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

I go with B for person.

So the baby in the womb is not a person?

 

[keypurr]

I think something you are forgetting is that "Jesus" (Greek "IESOUS") was just a name given to the Son of God. While, yes, there was a physical body "created" inside of Mary's womb, an image of God, because Man was created in God's image, the Son of God, who is one of the three eternal Persons of the Godhead, the Trinity, tabernacled, or made His tent, in the new body that was inside Mary's womb. In order for me to continue this line of thought, though, I need you to reply to the question in my previous post.

His Aramaic name is Y'shua.

God is a Spirit, in what way is he the image of God?

Show me three persons of the godhead in scripture.

The Logos and Jesus are one and the same.

I believe the logos was IN Jesus, it spoke and acted through the body prepared for it.

Jesus was the Lamb, the sacrifice for mankind and he HAD to be a MAN to do it.

Yes, we agree. Jesus the flesh son of God

segment below the line at the bottom of this post....

"Jesus," again, is just a name given to the Son of God. So yes the Bible does say that Jesus came down from heaven.

“If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also; and from now on you know Him and have seen Him.” Philip said to Him, “Lord, show us the Father, and it is sufficient for us.” Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? - John 14:7-9 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John14:7-9&version=NKJV

Jesus Himself says "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."

Keypurr, the best way to know what the Father is like is to look at His Son.

You must realize that the spirit son (logos) spoke through Jesus. The logos came down from heaven, not the man Jesus.

you need to listen to this again, when you have time.
http://kgov.com/bel/20150813

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

, what is the price of sin? Can any man pay that price and have eternal life? No, because the price of sin is death (both physical and spiritual), but God's gift is eternal life.

Amen

Can that price be measured, or given any amount? No. It's price is too high for any man to even imagine, let alone think he can pay it off.

My Lord paid the price for me.

Keypurr, what is the most valuable thing in all of existence? Wouldn't that be God? So if the price of sin is too high for man (or any created being, for that matter), then wouldn't you think that the only thing (and I use that word loosely) that has infinite value be able to used as payment for sin? In other words, would God have to sacrifice Himself to pay the price?

e into the world by a man and it took a man to overcome it.

But isn't that exactly what God did? By sending God the Son to die on a cross for us? See, by saying that "Jesus" is separate from "the Son" and is a separate creature, you undermine completely and absolutely the reason God sent His Son to Earth.

By saying the Son is not God, you completely and absolutely undermine God's sacrifice for us, and when you undermine that, you undermine the message of salvation.

No I do not undermine the importance of the Lamb, but there is more to the story than you present JR.

There is the flesh Son of God = Jesus
The spirit son on God = logos
And Jesus Christ = the uniting of the flesh of Jesus with the Spirit of the logos.

Jesus did not exist until he was born.
Logos was God's first creation, express image, for God created all through it.
The logos was sent to bring light about God himself to mankind.
Jesus was born to be the Lamb of God and to hold the logos within.

I know that it sounds kind of strange, but I see it as truth.

 

[keypurr]

Then you don't believe scripture.

I have been studying the Bible for over 70 years that's a of time to waste if I do not believe in it. What I do not believe in is man's interpretation of scripture.

His parents went to Jerusalem every year at the Feast of the Passover.And when He was twelve years old, they went up to Jerusalem according to the custom of the feast.When they had finished the days, as they returned, the Boy Jesus lingered behind in Jerusalem. And Joseph and His mother did not know it;but supposing Him to have been in the company, they went a day’s journey, and sought Him among their relatives and acquaintances.So when they did not find Him, they returned to Jerusalem, seeking Him.Now so it was that after three days they found Him in the temple, sitting in the midst of the teachers, both listening to them and asking them questions.And all who heard Him were astonished at His understanding and answers.So when they saw Him, they were amazed; and His mother said to Him, “Son, why have You done this to us? Look, Your father and I have sought You anxiously.”And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”But they did not understand the statement which He spoke to them.Then He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them, but His mother kept all these things in her heart.And Jesus increased in wisdom and stature, and in favor with God and men. - Luke 2:41-52 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke2:41-52&version=NKJV

Keypurr, who is Jesus talking about when he says, "I must be about My Father’s business"?

Consider that Jesus needed to grow in wisdom. Why would the son of God need to grow in wisdom when God says he laid the foundation of the universe? Christ means anointed of God, so why would you think he had the power of God before he was anointed?

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

Jesus became the Christ at his baptism, that is when the spirit Son (logos) went into Jesus and Jesus got the power.

No, not an assumption. If A = B and B = C, then A = C.

you math is flawed my friend.

I'm not assuming anything, Keypurr. See above.

And see my previous post, too.

I disagee

So the baby in the womb is not a person?

When do you think personhood begins?

Do you think a single cell is a person? Where do we draw the line?

I only have Gen 2 to consider.

There is a huge difference between life and personhood.

 

[keypurr]

watch:

"subject of" is the modifier of 'image." Do you understand English?
Do you understand why your addition is simply cognitive dissonance?


Which is just reflexive, Keypurr see here You are simply saying "an image is an image."
I don't believe it wise.



It doesn't matter. I know what your academic prowess is.

:nono:


It will serve no purpose to try to teach you contrary.

You and I are never going to agree on this Lon.

You are working so hard to dismiss me that you don't realize you are clinging and clingy. I think you honestly take pride in Unit-Arianism.

Your arrogance is showing again.

The masses followed Jesus. He had 'crowds' wherever He went. Did you used to spend time with JW's?

The bigger masses did not. I have spent time with many churches, JW was just one of many.

You are allowing yourself a lie in arrogance. As far as chosen: If I am, I stand before my Maker. If not, I stand before my Maker. I honor the Son 'just as' I honor the Father. JW's don't. You don't and won't you say. We will stand before our Maker because of our choices, both stupid and/or right.

I am ready to stand with my Lord to plead my case before his throne.
I trust the understanding that I have been blessed with.

You are sitting in judgement of all who disagree with you and the churches.

 

[Bright Raven]

No it doesn't BR, the WORD, (logos) became flesh, not God.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

The SON came to us BR.

He came to bring light and dwell in the Lamb of God.

Open your mind to the truth.

1 Timothy 3:16 also teaches this point Keypurr. You are so confused.

1 Timothy 3:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

 

[JudgeRightly]

His Aramaic name is Y'shua.

Ok, and? It was a name given to Him before He was born. It means Salvation, no?

Indeed the Lord has proclaimed To the end of the world: “Say to the daughter of Zion, ‘Surely your salvation is coming; Behold, His reward is with Him, And His work before Him.’” - Isaiah 62:11 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Isaiah62:11&version=NKJV

Who is that talking of, Keypurr? As I said above, a man cannot pay for salvation. Only God. Again, if Jesus is ONLY A MAN, then He is NOT the one talked about in this verse.

God is a Spirit, in what way is he the image of God?

"If you see me, you see the Father."

Keypurr, I feel like a broken record, having to repeat myself. If you want to know what the Father is like, you look at the Son, because He is the exact and perfect image of God.

Show me three persons of the godhead in scripture.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name [notice that "name" is singular]of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all things that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.” Amen. - Matthew 28:20 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew28:19-20&version=NKJV

Jesus Himself talks of the Trinity.

I believe the logos was IN Jesus, it spoke and acted through the body prepared for it.

Keypurr, there aren't four Persons in the Trinity. There are only three. The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. Jesus Christ, who is God the Son of the living God, is ONE PERSON. You are trying to add a fourth person.

The body that was birthed by Mary was the tent for the Son of God. There was no human soul-spirit in the womb of Mary, it was God Himself who indwelt the body prepared for him.

Jesus was the Lamb, the sacrifice for mankind and he HAD to be a MAN to do it.

Keypurr, only God is sufficient enough to pay for the sins. NO MAN can be the sacrifice.

Yes, we agree. Jesus the flesh son of God

Again, you're adding a person. There are only three Persons of the Trinity. Jesus is the Son of God.

You must realize that the spirit son (logos) spoke through Jesus.

Jesus is the NAME of the Son of God. The Son of God is our Salvation, not a human.

The Logos came down from heaven, not the man Jesus.

The logos tabernacled among us. He indwelt the body prepared for Him at the moment of conception within Mary's womb.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------

No I do not undermine the importance of the Lamb, but there is more to the story than you present JR.

Yes you do, Keypurr, and you're too stubborn to realize it. Read what I said again and think about it more.

There is the flesh Son of God = Jesus
The spirit son on God = logos
And Jesus Christ = the uniting of the flesh of Jesus with the Spirit of the logos.

They are all one person. Not two or three. ONE.

There are no verses in the Bible that says otherwise.

Jesus did not exist until he was born.

Incorrect. Jesus was not given His name until 8 days after He was born, ACCORDING TO THE LAW. Or what, did He not exist until 8 days after He was born? Keypurr, do you see how ridiculous you're stance is becoming?

Logos was God's first creation, express image, for God created all through it.

If ALL THINGS were created through the Son, and yet God says "I alone created, there was none beside me," wouldn't that make God or the Son a liar?

(That brings me back to another point I made elsewhere in this thread. Either Jesus is a liar, he's a lunatic, or he's LORD.)

The logos was sent to bring light about God himself to mankind.

The Logos was sent (and came willingly) to be the sacrifice for all mankind.

Jesus was born to be the Lamb of God and to hold the logos within.

The Son of God was conceived in Mary's womb. It was at the very moment of conception that God the Son indwelt the body prepared for Him.

I know that it sounds kind of strange, but I see it as truth.

It's strange because it's not supported by scripture. Keypurr, just because you think something is true doesn't make it true. "Let God be true and every man a liar."

I have been studying the Bible for over 70 years that's a of time to waste if I do not believe in it.

You don't believe the scriptures you have been given throughout this entire thread on this topic. Otherwise you would have realized that you're in the wrong.

I've been a Christian for coming up on 14 years now, but I've only been studying and learning the Bible on a daily basis for the past 3 years.

What I do not believe in is man's interpretation of scripture.

Keypurr, if you really mean that, then you should just reject any versions of the Bible that are not in the language of the original texts. Because man is the one who has translated from the original OT from Hebrew to Greek (the Septuagint, which is what Jesus Himself quoted from during his ministry) and the Old and New Testaments from the Greek and Hebrew to English, and to any other language.

Consider that Jesus needed to grow in wisdom. Why would the son of God need to grow in wisdom when God says he laid the foundation of the universe? Christ means anointed of God, so why would you think he had the power of God before he was anointed?

You failed to answer my question, Keypurr.

Who is "I must be about My Father's business" talking about?

Here is the answer to your questions:

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus,who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God,but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men.And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross. - Philippians 2:5-8 http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Philippians2:5-8&version=NKJV

Act 10:38 How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him.

The Holy Ghost (aka the Holy Spirit) is one of the Persons of the Trinity. So what's your point? Can God the Father, who can be wherever He wants to be, not be with His Son on Earth?

Jesus became the Christ at his baptism, that is when the spirit Son (logos) went into Jesus and Jesus got the power.

Keypurr, repeating something over and over again and again and again is not going to make it true. There are absolutely NO scripture verses that say that Jesus and Christ and the Son of God are distinct entities.

Tell me Keypurr, did the dove of the Holy Spirit enter Jesus? or did it alight on His shoulder?

you math is flawed my friend.

So if A = B, and B = C, then A =/= C? I think you need to go back to math class.

I disagee

Would you care to explain why?

When do you think personhood begins? Do you think a single cell is a person? Where do we draw the line?

We use the line God drew.

From the moment of conception, it's a human being. Even that one cell is made in God's image. Therefore it is a person, because God is a person.

Keypurr, before I give you a site to look at that has way more information about this than I can present here, You need to be rebuked.

By saying that it's not a human being until after birth, you immediately open the door for those who hate God to say that abortion is not wrong, because it's not a person, and therefore abortion isn't murder, because according to the Bible, you can't "murder" something that isn't human.

I only have Gen 2 to consider.

There is a huge difference between life and personhood.

There is NO DIFFERENCE WHATSOEVER between a human's soul-spirit at conception versus at birth, other than it's age.

Life begins at conception. This is a scientifically known FACT. And since life begins at conception, and man is made in God's image, then from the moment of conception, the embryo is a human being.

Keypurr, I will not continue talking to you about this until you go through americanrtl.org and learn what it means to be human.

 

[Lon]

You and I are never going to agree on this Lon.

No, but I'm not on an Arian or Unitarian website. I'm SELDOM interested in this conversation.

You? Can't help yourself.

Your arrogance is showing again.

:nono: You think you have some ownership here on TOL. I'm not on an Arian website!
You came to a Trinitarian website, knocked on the door, let yourself in, declared ▲"I'm not listening, I won't change" ▲ Then declared 'we' were wrong. :dizzy:

The bigger masses did not. I have spent time with many churches, JW was just one of many.

Yeah, they have a way of brain-washing and causing uneducated people to not be able to think critically anymore. I hate that about them.
One of my best friends was a JW. Smart as a whip but I couldn't get past his brain-washing.

I am ready to stand with my Lord to plead my case before his throne.
I trust the understanding that I have been blessed with.

You are sitting in judgement of all who disagree with you and the churches.

No. That man is you. You think you are 'smarter' etc. You've told me so.

I included 'myself' in the above and you say I'm sitting as judge? I put us both under His judgement where we both surely will stand or fall.

Sorry, that Judge isn't me. I do understand scriptures and believe you don't. There is no 'judgement' with that. It is the teacher in me. It is assessment and I'm pretty good at it, having the training for it. As good as I am or think I am (or am not), I'm not on an Arian Unitarian board.

This thread is about the Trinity. I'll leave you to talking about the subject.

 

[keypurr]

1 Timothy 3:16 also teaches this point Keypurr. You are so confused.

1 Timothy 3:16New King James Version (NKJV)

16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness:

God was manifested in the flesh,
Justified in the Spirit,
Seen by angels,
Preached among the Gentiles,
Believed on in the world,
Received up in glory.

Manifested in the flesh means to be made know. Christ made his God know while he was in the flesh.

I am not confused at all friend.


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[keypurr]

No, but I'm not on an Arian or Unitarian website. I'm SELDOM interested in this conversation.

You? Can't help yourself.


:nono: You think you have some ownership here on TOL. I'm not on an Arian website!
You came to a Trinitarian website, knocked on the door, let yourself in, declared â–²"I'm not listening, I won't change" â–² Then declared 'we' were wrong. :dizzy:


Yeah, they have a way of brain-washing and causing uneducated people to not be able to think critically anymore. I hate that about them.
One of my best friends was a JW. Smart as a whip but I couldn't get past his brain-washing.



No. That man is you. You think you are 'smarter' etc. You've told me so.

I included 'myself' in the above and you say I'm sitting as judge? I put us both under His judgement where we both surely will stand or fall.

Sorry, that Judge isn't me. I do understand scriptures and believe you don't. There is no 'judgement' with that. It is the teacher in me. It is assessment and I'm pretty good at it, having the training for it. As good as I am or think I am (or am not), I'm not on an Arian Unitarian board.

This thread is about the Trinity. I'll leave you to talking about the subject.

I would assume that Mr Knight sees things in a different manner.
What good is a forum if everyone agrees. Are you getting hotter Lon? Are you concerned that you just might learn something from an uneducated person like myself?

You only understand what your church told you, there is more to the story than that.

If your looking for a "yes" man you will not find him in my posts.

We both love God Lon but we both see him in different light. I stand on what I have been blessed to see. Your Traditions are blinding you.



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[Bright Raven]

Manifested in the flesh means to be made know. Christ made his God know while he was in the flesh.

I am not confused at all friend.


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Yes you are friend. You just do not realize it.

 

[JudgeRightly]

Manifested in the flesh means to be made know. Christ made his God know while he was in the flesh.

I am not confused at all friend.