God's Truth
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You are wasting your own time.
The Salvation of God
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You are wasting your own time.
Lon
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Better than that, I have worth for you too! :doh:
Listen, I am a child of royalty, of God very God. You are a god of a small kingdom of one. See the difference? I don't 'care' if I am worth something as much as I care if others understand their place in this world.
1) You are correct, we are born in sin and so must get back to something.
2) That something is re-union with life, love, hope, promise in the Father and Lord Jesus Christ.
3) It 'sounds' to me as if you were brow-beaten in a church. That church should have taught scripture. We are saved by grace.
4) We are not healed by self-diagnosis and treatment. If I need heart surgery, no naturopath or homeopath will take care of me when the situation is already dire.
5) It makes no sense to rely on self, when there is a God of the universe and who 'says' He is involved. Ignoring Him is sin, even with good intentions. "No thanks" to God is defiance and part of the same nature that has us already in trouble.
You can't have a self-worth unless your mother loves you. You cannot have a self-worth if everyone in your life avoids you. Why? Because our worth is measured by who 'we' value and touch. I am a horrible person if my kids hate me. I'm getting feedback all the time on who I am because I am a social animal. What could possibly give your self-worth more boost than knowing John 3:16?????
Prizebeatz1
New member
The Salvation of God
How can you measure self-worth by what others think of you? That is not self-worth. That is lack of self-worth. How can you possibly get self-worth from outside of yourself? By definition, self-worth comes from within the self. You call yourself a scholar yet you don't know the basic fundamentals. You are delusional and are not even aware of it. I am not going to entertain you anymore. You don't have any business even looking in my direction. Good luck to you.
How can you measure self-worth by what others think of you? That is not self-worth. That is lack of self-worth. How can you possibly get self-worth from outside of yourself? By definition, self-worth comes from within the self. You call yourself a scholar yet you don't know the basic fundamentals. You are delusional and are not even aware of it. I am not going to entertain you anymore. You don't have any business even looking in my direction. Good luck to you.
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Lon
Well-known member
If you are put down, I can see what you mean. I can even empathize, though have not experienced the world from your perspective. I think I see part of what you mean. I think, however, our self worth does come from being loved. Why? I think, the more loving and like Jesus I am, the more people value what they see. In addition, I see Him reflected in their eyes as I minister to them. What is not to love at that point? Perfection is a beautiful thing. Romans 8 says all creation longs for it.
I drove down to Pt. Defiance Park this week. I was greatly troubled by the trash. The beauty was still there, but the trash was a blight and didn't belong there. Sin does not belong in our lives. I know slums, so I appreciate the problematic of needing to embrace 'nothing but trash' so that we have to find self-worth amidst where we are BUT the God of the Universe sent His beautiful Son. He reaches into all places and pulls that beauty out of ashes. We can shine in dark places, in Christ. If He is lifted up, He says He will draw all men to Him. We are created for relationship with our God, not to go it alone without Him. We are a people that need relationship with the Living God. Only when we are doing what we were 'designed' to do, will we find a true self-worth. There is no glory in self-direction, no 'worth' but alone if we reject our created measure.
You are talking about assessment. What does it matter what my assessment of myself is? Everything in the New Testament screams "I love you" from God. How could I have a poor self-perception if the God of the Universe is love and chooses to love me? Or you? How can you do better than that? He is smarter than we are. Loves more than we do. Has purpose and plans for all who call on Him. How can my evaluation match that? Further, how is it not swallowed up? How can 'self' worth (estimation of me) compare to God worth (His estimation of you and me)???
Would you have another die on a cross for you? Love is love, by definition, because it esteems and values another. When it is done sacrificially, that love is greater than ourselves because we are receiving it. Because of that, I believe it supersedes our own self-worth.
Doesn't it have to? I am overwhelmed when someone forgives me. Why? Because someone else is valuing me beyond what I think I deserve. It may very well be beyond what they believe we deserve too! Yet the action lifts us up much much higher than self-worth alone. Self-worth can't conceive of that kind of love without letting go. I do recognize we get bad feedback too, but if I have the God of the universe thinking I'm great, there is no room for those negative hits upon me. 1 Corinthians 2:9
Don't I?
Give this a shot:
Prizebeatz1
New member
The Salvation of God
You don't know the true God, true salvation, true heaven, true love, or true self-worth because you don't know the soul. What you know is a cheap imitation of these things that depends on time, circumstances, events, and situations such as what others think of you and Jesus dying on the cross. The true version of these things are unconditional and omnipresent. What you have is the personality trying to emulate and approximate the genuine version of God through fabricated imitations and simulations which are man-made. Personality is an imitation of the true identity of the soul. It's no match, no contest.
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You don't know the true God, true salvation, true heaven, true love, or true self-worth because you don't know the soul. What you know is a cheap imitation of these things that depends on time, circumstances, events, and situations such as what others think of you and Jesus dying on the cross. The true version of these things are unconditional and omnipresent. What you have is the personality trying to emulate and approximate the genuine version of God through fabricated imitations and simulations which are man-made. Personality is an imitation of the true identity of the soul. It's no match, no contest.
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Lon
Well-known member
Buddhism (or any other Eastern mysticism) is not Christianity. You'd have a LOT more 'luck' with this over on a Buddhist site. All of Christianity is against your supposed enlightenment and understanding. We have enough converts from Buddhism that you need to realize that your gloss won't wash. You have purposefully come to a Christian website, selling your wares. Why? :idunno: It never makes sense to me. Then you turn around and tell me that I'm shallow? Nice. Not a very good emissary are you? Send in the next guy or the better guy...
lain:Self-love comes from unconditional love from another. Without it, we have no frame of reference for a tangible and real self-worth. Truth stands as incontrovertible or there is no such thing as it. If there is no absolute truth, then you have no absolute or tangible self-worth. I am worth something only because God sees worth. Without it, without Him, I'm nothing.
1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
Prizebeatz1
New member
Buddhism (or any other Eastern mysticism) is not Christianity. You'd have a LOT more 'luck' with this over on a Buddhist site. All of Christianity is against your supposed enlightenment and understanding. We have enough converts from Buddhism that you need to realize that your gloss won't wash. You have purposefully come to a Christian website, selling your wares. Why? :idunno: It never makes sense to me. Then you turn around and tell me that I'm shallow? Nice. Not a very good emissary are you? Send in the next guy or the better guy...
Self-love comes from unconditional love from another. Without it, we have no frame of reference for a tangible and real self-worth. Truth stands as incontrovertible or there is no such thing as it. If there is no absolute truth, then you have no absolute or tangible self-worth. I am worth something only because God sees worth. Without it, without Him, I'm nothing.
1Co 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.
1Co 13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.
1Co 13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver up my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.
It is not love that conquers but the source of love that does. Love alone will not do it because that neglects the total picture. Love is one of many aspects of the soul. I am here because I love humanity. I've been called to stand up and speak.
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Lon
Well-known member
But if it is against the One Who Loves, it isn't love. Trying to convert Christians from Christianity (their love for God and embrace of God's love for them/us) then it won't be seen as love, but an attack from a different religion that renounces the saving work of the Lord Jesus Christ.
Prizebeatz1
New member
The Salvation of God
If that is how people choose to see it then I don't have any control. The personality's job is to resist, protect and defend from anything that threatens it's identity and from fear of the unknown. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it's a necessary part of us. But it is overdoing it and does not know when to make an exception. I don't mean to offend you.
The soul is a process that takes time. I have a duty to teach others. It would be a huge disservice to mankind not to say anything. The more you find out about it the more you will see the soul is the actual substance of God dwelling within us. It is everything we've ever wanted and more. The universe rejoices when we recognize this. You will quickly and easily give up everything for it, no question, counting all else as worthless as Paul puts it. The soul is reality in itself. It is all there is. You do have to experience it for yourself however. Infinite treasure and eternal divinity is our birthright.
You might be a little shaky and doubtful at first but don't let that deter you. The enemy has had centuries to build up and fortify scare tactics against us going near the soul. It's profitable to keep people ignorant from knowing they are being manipulated into playing a role in their own destruction. I believe most are only doing the best they can with what they know. Hold on to what you believe until you're ready to let go. God's patience is infinite and you were made to reflect the same purest of qualities. In fact you are made exactly like our infinite and eternal God. The divinity of the living soul is proof.
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If that is how people choose to see it then I don't have any control. The personality's job is to resist, protect and defend from anything that threatens it's identity and from fear of the unknown. Nothing wrong with that. In fact it's a necessary part of us. But it is overdoing it and does not know when to make an exception. I don't mean to offend you.
The soul is a process that takes time. I have a duty to teach others. It would be a huge disservice to mankind not to say anything. The more you find out about it the more you will see the soul is the actual substance of God dwelling within us. It is everything we've ever wanted and more. The universe rejoices when we recognize this. You will quickly and easily give up everything for it, no question, counting all else as worthless as Paul puts it. The soul is reality in itself. It is all there is. You do have to experience it for yourself however. Infinite treasure and eternal divinity is our birthright.
You might be a little shaky and doubtful at first but don't let that deter you. The enemy has had centuries to build up and fortify scare tactics against us going near the soul. It's profitable to keep people ignorant from knowing they are being manipulated into playing a role in their own destruction. I believe most are only doing the best they can with what they know. Hold on to what you believe until you're ready to let go. God's patience is infinite and you were made to reflect the same purest of qualities. In fact you are made exactly like our infinite and eternal God. The divinity of the living soul is proof.
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Lon
Well-known member
This is your main point, and this far, I agree with you. Scriptures speak to this truth:
| Gen 1:26a Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Gen 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them. Gen 2:7 then the LORD God formed the man of dust from the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living creature. |
Imago Deo means 'image of God' and so you are correct that we have a soul in God's likeness, but it is nothing if we remove the One in Whose likeness we are made.
I won't fault you here either. Ecclesiastes 3:11 but it isn't supposed to be independent of God. We were created for relationship, with God and one another. This is why 'by this' (unity) will men know 'we belong to God.'
It is an idea. Jim Carrey embraces this kind of thought pattern, but the problem with it is that it divorces from the God who made us. "Everything as it is" is not the ideal. I can rejoice that this is the day the Lord has made and be glad in it, but this isn't the fulfillment. I can't fully rejoice while kids are dying.
Again, quite a few of your sentiments are scriptural, but not apart from scripture. We need God. Colossians 1:17 and John 15:5 make that clear to me. 1 Corinthians 2:9 2 Corinthians 5:17
Two authors, well one, but one who scribbled over perfection and so an embrace of the scribbles too, is an embrace of marring. I will not accept that my sin is supposed to be here. I will not embrace that my selfishness at another's expense is good. I embrace what God says is 'very good' Genesis 1:31. It may be that we have some agreement but you must necessarily talk about what you embrace from scriptures. I know that you reject a bit of it especially as related to the consequences of sin. I believe they exist and must be eliminated.
"All there is..." I can't agree on this one. Look to my sig of Ephesians and also above to 2 Corinthians 5:17 then to Revelation 21:4
Again, I'm not wholly disagreeing with your ideas, but rather where the fulfillment of them is found. Scripture is 100% correct without question.
Atheists say the same thing to me. ...and Mormons.
Again, sounds like a problematic church you grew up in. I barely spanked my kids and would have chosen to never do it, if I had it to do over. I didn't go to a church that was into brow-beating. We have to be shown, not beaten.
:nono: "Like" not identical. As I said, Jim Carrey believes like you too. We are not our own gods.
Well, I agree, but "He" is not "me." We are definitely His expression, but must see the limit of our creation. We are finite beings. We all have manufacture dates. We all without exception, will die. I do not believe we were originally designed to die.
The Lord Jesus Christ conquered death. It is part of the curse. Again, God was not the only author. "The serpent was more crafty..." We agree on that point, but disagree what is all contained in the lie. -Lon
Ben Masada
New member
The Salvation of God comes to us only after we decide to set things right with Him so that our sins, from scarlet red become as white as snow through repentance and return to the obedience of God's Law. (Isaiah 1:18,19) I think it was from this quote that Jesus presented that parable of the rich man and Lazarus because he used the same theme to listen to "Moses" aka the Law in order to achieve salvation. (Luke 16:29-31)
Prizebeatz1
New member
Lon
Well-known member
:nono: No dice. It is you against God. And again, I am studied. There is absolutely no chance you are going to make headway with assertion. Hebrews 13:8 John 8:58 Colossians 1:17 Revelation 1:8 John 17:5 Which of us is rationalizing? Not me :nono:
:sigh: Name the verse.
:sigh: And again, show me. Any fool can accuse. Satan is the great accuser. You should REALLY hold off on such. It is a grievous accusation. I didn't come to your website, you came to mine.
Scripture fools you? Did your pastor before me 'fool you?' What is the point? I didn't come to you. You came here. I don't get a dime talking about the word of God. I pray to always say the right thing and to correct the wrong thing. Remember you telling me that something (truth as I assess it) can make one uncomfortable at first?
Truth absolutely can.
Like following Christ? Denying self?
:think:
:think:
:doh: -->
Which God? You don't. SO, YOUR God doesn't either....
lain:lain: :nono:
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Prizebeatz1
New member
The Salvation of God
Why would you try to place conditions on what is unconditional? Those who push the literal interpretation of Christianity do so at the expense of neglecting the soul which encourages separation from the real God, self-worth, heaven and salvation. Why should one agree to give donations so they can increase feelings of disconnection? Do you think God likes it when someone profits off of discouraging people away from him? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." If we take the traditional approach this refers to Jesus's beginning. Therefore Jesus is not eternal because that which is eternal has no beginning. You are the scholar so figure it out.
Why would you try to place conditions on what is unconditional? Those who push the literal interpretation of Christianity do so at the expense of neglecting the soul which encourages separation from the real God, self-worth, heaven and salvation. Why should one agree to give donations so they can increase feelings of disconnection? Do you think God likes it when someone profits off of discouraging people away from him? "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God..." If we take the traditional approach this refers to Jesus's beginning. Therefore Jesus is not eternal because that which is eternal has no beginning. You are the scholar so figure it out.
In the beginning of human history was the Word. He was already there at the beginning. Without him there would not have been a beginning.
Prizebeatz1
New member
The Salvation of God
That's not what it says. It says the word was there in the beginning and the word was God which means that the word had a beginning which means that God had a beginning too. The literal translation is good only when it's convenient huh?
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That's not what it says. It says the word was there in the beginning and the word was God which means that the word had a beginning which means that God had a beginning too. The literal translation is good only when it's convenient huh?
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Lon
Well-known member
:nono: I love others because God loves me. I'm not as caught up in 'me' as you seem to be in 'you.' I am a willing agent of self-negation. It is of my deepest...my profound belief...that I have self-worth when I love. We are born, as you say, loving ourselves, and most sadly, at the expense of others. Have you ever read the Satanic Bible? "First do no harm, then do as you will." It goes on to say that there is nothing wrong with harming another, just that it will get in the way of you doing 'as you will' down the road. Self-love is self-interest. I can't and won't live that way 'Beats.
Dude! Three kids live today because of my donations! Others may as well, but directly from my donations, I know of three. I realize you are probably talking about your messed up church[es] again. Ditching Christianity isn't the answer though. I'd love to see churches just meeting in homes and loving neighbors where the community in that home is just encouraging one another, sharing a bit, but not too caught up in building funds or a salary. There are actually churches exactly like this. Don't throw Jesus out with the bathwater.
I have always looked for ones that don't. One had a giving slot in the back of the church and never passed the plate, never asked for money. If I were a pastor and we needed to give up the church, I'd do that. Paul started working when the $ wasn't coming in. Meeting in a house or two is okay if it comes to that.
Read a couple of commentaries. This was never the 'traditional' approach. The creeds were always against the idea, and these orthodox ones were the ones that said 'beginning.' They don't mean what you think. Two of my professors were those who wrote the NIV and NASB. They wrote 'beginning' but didn't mean what you think. It was a literary way of introducing 'arxa.'
I just gave you a good many scriptures that said otherwise.
I did. Let me try again. "In the beginning" -whatever this day was, it was a long long time ago, if indeed it were a day or whether it is just hypothetically 'on a given day' like once upon a time. Let me give it to you for a moment. Let's say it is a specific day and it is indeed a 'beginning.' Okay so far? Next then: "...the Word was with God..." Look --> "was" that is a verb that means 'in the beginning, the Word already 'was." Do you see that? Otherwise it would have been "In the beginning, the Word began to be with God." It doesn't say that and can't be translated to say that. Do you understand then, why on this point you aren't right? "was" is an important verb of existing prior to "the beginning." See why 'beginning' then is but a literary device? That day doesn't mean anything in particular, but that God was about to become flesh from John 1:14.
Next: "And the Word was with God AND was God." Did God ever have a beginning? Logically, something exists that never has had a beginning. For eternity, logically, something has always always always always always always always existed. That being, in both of our estimations has to be God. The Word was not only with God, but was God.
Prizebeatz1
New member
God made them willing to recieve it but it appears to the unregerates that it was done by men's free will apart from God's involvement.