ECT The Nation of Israel was not at the last supper

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Interplanner

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The new covenant was embraced at the last supper. It is Christ's sacrifice on behalf of mankind, and his followers become party to it by being in Him, and by proclaiming it.

It was not with the nation of Israel, nor meant to be. It looks that way in some OT passages but all things were meant to find their fulfillment in Christ and even then it would take the Spirit's work to guide the disciples into all truth.

But this is why Heb 8-10 has nothing about the land promise of Israel as such. Everything exposited about the new covenant there is about his 'the sacrifice of himself' and unless the MAD/D'ist gang here is out to fracture the Bible once again, that sacrifice is one and the same for all those who believe from among all nations.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
The distinction remains Jamie. It wasn't the nation, and that's on purpose. It was with those who lead his mission.

There is nothing to be done with the nation if Hebrews and Acts are any indication. For many, they are not.
 

jamie

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The distinction remains Jamie. It wasn't the nation, and that's on purpose. It was with those who lead his mission.

There is nothing to be done with the nation if Hebrews and Acts are any indication. For many, they are not.

The OT church was transformed into the NT church through Jesus Christ.

The current nations of Israel are not a church, but they exist.
 

northwye

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What New Testament scriptures deal with the question of whether the Old Covenant - and Old Covenant Israel - exist after the Cross or after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?
 

Tambora

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What New Testament scriptures deal with the question of whether the Old Covenant - and Old Covenant Israel - exist after the Cross or after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?
What New Testament scriptures deal with the question of whether the Covenant to Noah still exist after the cross or after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?
 

Danoh

New member
Yo, bookworm - you assert "The Nation of Israel was not at the last supper..."

Why then were it's Twelve Apostles promised the following; which is exactly the order of one Prince, or Head over each Tribe given by the LORD through Moses?

Matthew 19:28 And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Numbers 17:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and take of every one of them a rod according to the house of their fathers, of all their princes according to the house of their fathers twelve rods: write thou every man's name upon his rod.

Numbers 17:6 And Moses spake unto the children of Israel, and every one of their princes gave him a rod apiece, for each prince one, according to their fathers' houses, even twelve rods: and the rod of Aaron was among their rods.

Acts 1:15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,) 1:16 Men and brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus. 1:17 For he was numbered with us, and had obtained part of this ministry. 1:18 Now this man purchased a field with the reward of iniquity; and falling headlong, he burst asunder in the midst, and all his bowels gushed out. 1:19 And it was known unto all the dwellers at Jerusalem; insomuch as that field is called in their proper tongue, Aceldama, that is to say, The field of blood. 1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his bishoprick let another take. 1:21 Wherefore of these men which have companied with us all the time that the Lord Jesus went in and out among us, 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection. 1:23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. 1:24 And they prayed, and said, Thou, Lord, which knowest the hearts of all men, shew whether of these two thou hast chosen, 1:25 That he may take part of this ministry and apostleship, from which Judas by transgression fell, that he might go to his own place. 1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

Yea, sure, bookworm, you know your Bible.

Over the last twenty years, I've forgotten more of these exact kinds of specifics sprinkled throughout the Scripture than you have yet ever begun to get even a tip of the iceberg glimpse of in your entire forty-five years in your obvious over reliance on your endless books "about."

It is long since beyond high time you learn HOW TO study the Bible FROM the Bible ITSELF.

Isaiah 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Or as the writer of Hebrews had been inspired to write to such as your kind; where the things of the Lord and HIS Book are concerned...

Hebrews 5:11 Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. 5:14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

90 minutes a day in Scripture is all this requires.

Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11, 12.
 

Nang

TOL Subscriber
What New Testament scriptures deal with the question of whether the Covenant to Noah still exist after the cross or after the fall of Jerusalem in 70 A.D.?

The New Covenant is the promise of Grace from God which would be provided in His Saviour.

Noah found and was saved by this new promise of grace, and was spared judgment/destruction/death according to that very promise.

And you cannot find that same New Covenant of Promise in the NT?

C'mon! . . . tsk, tsk
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
He will never be able to be specific about anything in the Bible with the way he rewrites it.
Probably why he sticks to generalities and spiritualizing.





That is nonsense Tam. I'm talking here about what heb 9-10 actually says. What a stupid comment. There is nothing there about the land. It is all about justification from sins. If that's spiritual (and it is) then I'm going to read it for its spiritual truth.
 

Danoh

New member
That is nonsense Tam. I'm talking here about what heb 9-10 actually says. What a stupid comment. There is nothing there about the land. It is all about justification from sins. If that's spiritual (and it is) then I'm going to read it for its spiritual truth.

Rubbish - the "which covenant they brake" refers to the Old Covenant they'd been unable to keep because, though introduced "because of transgressions" or "that sin might appear sin" it is actually on God to enable them to keep it because, as Moses reminded Him; His earlier covenant is Unconditional, thus His having planned all along the promise of a New Covenant that will enable them to keep said Old.

This is His very point in such as Deuteronomy; Jeremiah; and Malachi - which is basically that "though you, Israel, drive me up a wall; I will nevertheless keep my Covenant unto Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob concerning you, because I AM the LORD YOUR God; and I change NOT- THEREFORE, I WILL enable you to do what I well know you can not..

That is similar this side of His Gentile Grace in this Mystery Age - but not the same.

duh-uh

Rom. 5:8
 

Tambora

Get your armor ready!
LIFETIME MEMBER
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That is nonsense Tam.
No it's not.

Both the OT and NT tell us point blank whom the New Covenant was made to.
Both the OT and NT tell us point blank that the New Covenant was made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Jeremiah gives details of what the New Covenant entails for the house of Judah and the house of Israel.



Jeremiah 31:31-40 KJV
(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Point blank whom it was made with.


(32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Still no doubt whom it is speaking about.
Notice it is not some spiritual entity, but the very nation of Israel that GOD freed from the land of Egypt.




(33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That's an amazing promise.
And it is still referring to a national Israel.




(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


Well, that hasn't happened, so the promise that Israel will never be permanently cast away still stands, and will continue to stand as long as those ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars stands, which they do.



(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.


Just a little more to show that it will never happen that GOD casts away Israel on any permanent basis.




(38) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
(39) And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
(40) And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.


Has not happened ....... yet.



The New Covenant was made with national Isreal.
GOD will keep His promise to the very ones he made the promise to ----- the whole of national Israel.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The New Covenant is the promise of Grace from God which would be provided in His Saviour.

Noah found and was saved by this new promise of grace, and was spared judgment/destruction/death according to that very promise.

And you cannot find that same New Covenant of Promise in the NT?

C'mon! . . . tsk, tsk

:chuckle:

From her SOF, not the Holy Bible.
 

Interplanner

Well-known member
No it's not.

Both the OT and NT tell us point blank whom the New Covenant was made to.
Both the OT and NT tell us point blank that the New Covenant was made to the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

Jeremiah gives details of what the New Covenant entails for the house of Judah and the house of Israel.



Jeremiah 31:31-40 KJV
(31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


Point blank whom it was made with.


(32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:


Still no doubt whom it is speaking about.
Notice it is not some spiritual entity, but the very nation of Israel that GOD freed from the land of Egypt.




(33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
(34) And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.

That's an amazing promise.
And it is still referring to a national Israel.




(35) Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
(36) If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.


Well, that hasn't happened, so the promise that Israel will never be permanently cast away still stands, and will continue to stand as long as those ordinances of the sun, moon, and stars stands, which they do.



(37) Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.


Just a little more to show that it will never happen that GOD casts away Israel on any permanent basis.




(38) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that the city shall be built to the LORD from the tower of Hananeel unto the gate of the corner.
(39) And the measuring line shall yet go forth over against it upon the hill Gareb, and shall compass about to Goath.
(40) And the whole valley of the dead bodies, and of the ashes, and all the fields unto the brook of Kidron, unto the corner of the horse gate toward the east, shall be holy unto the LORD; it shall not be plucked up, nor thrown down any more for ever.


Has not happened ....... yet.



The New Covenant was made with national Isreal.
GOD will keep His promise to the very ones he made the promise to ----- the whole of national Israel.





I read your first line, and once again you refuse to see what the NT is saying. There is nothing of the sort in the last supper. It is for the forgiveness of sins of many. That's why it is commemorated over at the 'gentile' Corinthian church, ch 11. That's why the new covenant is a ministry that ANY believer can work in. That's why Heb 9-10 comment on ch 8 is that it is about salvation from the death sentence of sin and says nothing about Israel in 9:26 in the 2nd coming.

Why are not able to see that you default to OT passages to comment on OT passages instead of NT passages?

There was a previous covenant and if a person did not get circ'd 'they would be cut off from their people.' Now there is a new covenant, and if a person does not listen to Christ and become a missionary to the nations 'they will be cut off from their people.' Gen 17:14 cp with Acts 3:23.

This is not abstract. It (Acts 3:23) meant the event of the destruction of Israel. But the 'Israel' that ministers to the nations goes on and flourishes. It follows the pattern of Dan 9.

You can pour through the rest of Hebrews (you never comment on this) and see that there is nothing happening in the land of Israel with the nation of Israel as a separate program in the future. and that's in HEBREWS.

It is in that sense--in the Messiah's mission to the nations--that the prophets meant their soaring words and visions. this is quite clear from isaiah and from how the NT uses Isaiah. Which you never mention, quote or comment upon. You always go direct to the old covenant's program and "Round 2" for it. That is not what the NT means by "new". It doesn't not mean 'another chance.' It meant Christ, who is the "yes" and "Amen" of all that God promised.
 
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