The Heretics Message to the World:Be Baptized to be Saved! (HOF thread)

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by Freak
Who perfects your faith? Is it water or Jesus?????

Jesus is the Author and Finisher of my faith -- the same faith leads me to obey to Lord in baptism in water for the remission of sins. I have no reason to deny the faith for only it provides me an unlimited measure of spiritual benefits. I tust the Lord in what He said. You trust your feelings and your denominational connections. This makes all the difference.


JustAChristian
:angel:
 

Freak

New member
Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Jesus is the Author and Finisher of my faith --

Leave it at that. Jesus perfects your faith not some water.

the same faith leads me to obey to Lord in baptism in water for the remission of sins.

God have mercy on you. Jesus is God and only God can forgive sins not some water.

I have no reason to deny the faith for only it provides me an unlimited measure of spiritual benefits.

You say this in light of Ephesians 1 that tells us we have been "blessed with every spiritual blessing" in Christ?

You trust your feelings and your denominational connections.

I belong to the body of Christ. I trust Christ not some water.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by Freak
Leave it at that. Jesus perfects your faith not some water.



God have mercy on you. Jesus is God and only God can forgive sins not some water.



You say this in light of Ephesians 1 that tells us we have been "blessed with every spiritual blessing" in Christ?



I belong to the body of Christ. I trust Christ not some water.

Just like I said, you trust your denominational Calvanistic teaching and not Jesus Christ.

JustAChristian
 

Freak

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Just like I said, you trust your denominational Calvanistic teaching and not Jesus Christ.

JustAChristian

I do not belong to a denomination so....your wrong!!!:p
 

Freak

New member
JustWater--

You have a losing battle.

I promote Jesus. You promote water. Jesus is God. Water is something He created. Jesus saves, water merely gets you wet.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by Freak
I do not belong to a denomination so....your wrong!!!:p

Since you do not believe what the Bible teaches, you can not be a part of the Lord's church for Jesus will only add to His church such as have been immersed for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-47). Whatever you call yourself it can not be in harmony with the Lord.

JustAChristian

Acts 2:47 Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved.
 

Freak

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Since you do not believe what the Bible teaches, you can not be a part of the Lord's church for Jesus will only add to His church such as have been immersed for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38-47).

More cultic teaching. God's Word tells me:

"...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

I am a member through Jesus Christ not through water.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by Freak
More cultic teaching. God's Word tells me:

"...you also, like living stones, are being built into a spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, offering spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ."

I am a member through Jesus Christ not through water.

Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness but you don't seem to see righteousness in His act. He set the example but you "crucify Him afresh and set Him to an open shame" by your arrogence and denial. I am afraid for you.

JustAChristian
 

Freak

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Jesus was baptized to fulfill all righteousness

Water did nothing for Christ for He is God. I pity your poor knowledge of Jesus.

Btw, who perfects your faith Christ or water?
 
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JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by Freak
Water did nothing for Christ for He is God. I pity your poor knowledge of Jesus.

Btw, who perfects your faith Christ or water?



And I knew him not: but that he should be made manifest to Israel, therefore am I come baptizing with water. (John 1:31 AV)

And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: (Matthew 3:16 AV)

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (John 3:5 AV)

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mark 16:15-16 AV)

And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Matthew 28:18-20 AV)

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and BE BAPTIZED every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call...And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart, Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. (Acts 2:38-47 AV)

But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. (Acts 8:12 AV)

Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus. And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized? And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing. (Acts 8:35-39 AV)

You say that water did nothing for Jesus. In all these verses water is mentioned and is directly or indirectly related to the teaching and actions of Jesus. Water is God’s chosen medium for contact with the blood of Christ (Romans 6:3-5). You feel there is no need to go down into the water for baptism, but Philip was not willing to leave the eunuch with going into the pool a baptizing him. Peter was not willing to leave the question asked by those on Pentecost without telling them they must be baptized. Jesus did not add anyone to His church who had not first been baptized. He made baptism a part of the new birth. We don’t become a part of God’s family, the church, with obeying the command to be baptized for the remission of sins. Why you don’t see and accept the simple and important of baptism can only be because you are afraid of the Bible and what it actually says. You must repent of your attitude and believe the gospel.

JustAChristian
_______________________________________

The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also NOW SAVE US(not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God,) by the resurrection of Jesus Christ: (1 Peter 3:21 AV)
 

Freak

New member
Your user name is quite misleading. It should be JustWorks or JustWater, because Just Christ doesn't work for you does it?
 
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JustAChristian

New member
Wrong User Name?

Wrong User Name?

Originally posted by Freak
Your user name is quite misleading. It should be JustWorks or JustWater, because Just Christ doen't work for you does it?

My User Name is Just perfect. Your's is the one that should be changed. How about HERETIC ? (Titus 3:10). Yeah, that would be just perfect for you.

JustAChristian :angel:

________________________________

Peter had something to say about heretics...
2 Peter 2:1 "But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction."
:devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :freak:
 
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Aimiel

Well-known member
Just a Sprinkling of Lies

Just a Sprinkling of Lies

JustAChristian,

Why haven't you trusted Jesus' instructions for receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

You're not helping your case by saying that you are 'holier than' Jay, you need to speak unto the edification of the saints, to be 'accepted in the beloved.'
 

shilohproject

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
Since you do not believe what the Bible teaches, you can not be a part of the Lord's church...
Perhaps this should rather be stated, "Since you do not agree with what I believe about what the Bible teaches..":cool:

(It is fairly common, here and elsewhere, to confuse one's personal understanding/opinion with absolute truth.)
 

HopeofGlory

New member
Just,

quote:
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Where did Jesus tell you to be baptized in water?
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We learn in several ways how things are to be done. There is the "direct statement." We learn "by example." And, we can learn by "implication." When Jesus said, "Go into all the earth and preach the gospel..."(Mark 16:15), this was a direct statement and explained the expanse of venturing with the gospel.

We learn that we are to honor and respect God. This is a parental responsibility. Parents must teach their children respect for God. The best way to do this is by example. Showing respect for God and his word, parents can give their children training that will go with them throughout life. Making sure that the Bible is studied often helps to establish God's word as the rule. When children learn the principles taught in the Bible, and then observe those same principles in the lives of their parents, great things are going to take place where purity of life is practiced.

As I have stated, the Bible teaches by implication. By implication we mean that which the Bible clearly teaches without directly stating it. Gen. 12:10 clearly teaches by direct statement that Abram went down into Egypt. Gen. 13:1 just as clearly and plainly teaches that Lot also went down into Egypt; but there is no direct statement to that effect. The statement is to the effect that Lot came up out of Egypt. Since there was a time previous to this when Lot was not in Egypt, and since it is now stated that Lot came up out of Egypt, it necessarily follows that Lot had gone down into Egypt. Though there is no direct statement to the effect that Lot went into Egypt, the Bible teaches as emphatically that Lot went into Egypt as it teaches that Lot came out of Egypt.

Though we may not find a direct statement said by Jesus that water must be used in baptism, we learn from His direct statement that believers were to be baptized. We learn by example that many obeyed that command or statement, and by implication we learn that the element of concern was water. The book of Acts more than satisfies the willing individual to the intent and purpose of baptism. To deny its essentiality is futile.

You have built your doctrine on what you assume Jesus implied and not on what He expressly stated. That supposition is your basis for scripture interpretation. The Baptist water baptized for remission before the cross and the apostles continued at Pentecost with the same doctrine. Jesus stated that He had a greater witness than that of John the Baptist and His witness was not preached at Pentecost.

quote:
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Water baptism in the name of Jesus began with the Baptist under the law, it is no longer required.
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Things required of the Law of Moses are not required of Christians unless included in the Law of Christ. Baptism for the remission of sins was not in the Law of Moses, nor of the prophets. It was introduced by John the baptizer in the wilderness of Judea. It was further required by Jesus for those entering the Kingdom of Heaven. It is still essential for that purpose today.

This statement is yet another example of your ignorance of the scriptures. Water baptism has its roots in Judaism well before John the Baptist. Christ was born under the law and obeyed it completely thus His baptism. Faith in the blood of the new testament for remission is the only essential requirement for entering the kingdom.

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I believe the gospel of Christ, that He died for my sins, and I have been baptized by the Spirit without the law.
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Many believe in Spirit baptism and depend upon it today, but the Holy Spirit baptism was never intended to cleanse of sins. It was to impart spiritual gifts and to provide the power of God to do the work of God. Baptism in water for spiritual cleansing is required for believers then and now (Mark 16:16; Acts 22:16).

Your conclusion is built on your assumption that the gift of the Holy Ghost with power at Pentecost is baptism by the Spirit. Water baptism can not spiritually cleanse, only faith in the testimony of Christ cleanses the heart of sinners.

quote:
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He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. Mark 16:16
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True

It is Christ that baptizes by the Spirit the moment we believe.
quote:
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For John truly baptized with water; but (on the contrary) ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. Acts 1:5
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To all these that Jesus spoke the Holy Spirit was to overwhelm them and provide the power to do God's work (John 14:16;14:26;15:26; 16:7). They were then to proclaim the Gospel of Salvation taught to them by Jesus and brought to their remembrance by the Holy Spirit which requires baptism for the remission of sins and cleansing of the soul of man.

The Pentecostal experience of power is not baptism by the Spirit. Jesus gave the apostles a new testament for remission and they did not mentioned it at Pentecost but continued preaching a baptism of repentance for remission as did the Baptist before the cross. Water baptism does not cleanse the soul only God can. Jesus made that clear when He said...

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

Notice that it was the "words" He spoke that have the power to give life if we believe. His words are the "living water" that cleanses a sinner by faith therefore cleansing the flesh with water is not needed.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Just a Sprinkling of Lies

Re: Just a Sprinkling of Lies

Originally posted by famousGandalf7
JustAChristian,

Why haven't you trusted Jesus' instructions for receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.

You're not helping your case by saying that you are 'holier than' Jay, you need to speak unto the edification of the saints, to be 'accepted in the beloved.'

Why haven't you trusted Jesus' instructions for receiving the baptism of the Holy Spirit?

There is not a single command to receive the baptism of the Holy Spirit. There is not even an example of anyone receiving the Holy Spirit baptism except the apostles and the household of Cornelius. The Spirit is given to those who obey the Lord in immersion for the remission of sins (Acts 2:38), was only imparted to baptized believers with the laying on of the apostles hands (Acts 8:14-17; 19:1-6) and ceased in manifestation when the apostles died. You and I and all who would believe are commanded to be immersed for the remission of sins. This is the only baptism in effect today (Eph. 4:5).

Romans 8:9
But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.

Do you see anything here about being baptized by the Holy Spirit? If you do then you are a poor interpreter of scripture.

Luke 11:13
If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

Again I ask, Do you see anything here about being baptized by the Holy Spirit?

Acts 19:2
He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost.


Do you see anything here about being baptized by the Holy Spirit? Receiving the Holy Spirit and being baptized with the Holy Spirit are not the same. Was the Ethiopian eunuch baptized with the Holy Spirit or in water?

You're not helping your case by saying that you are 'holier than' Jay, you need to speak unto the edification of the saints, to be 'accepted in the beloved.'

There is no where I have ever stated to be holier than anyone. I am just being honest with the scriptures. I call ‘um like I see ‘um!

JustAChristian
:angel:
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By the two verses below, anyone should be able to see that the Holy Spirit is the agent in baptism for the remission of sins and not the element. As the agent of God, He places one into the body of Christ. We have access to the Father by the HolySpirit. It is really not that hard to understand...

1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Ephesians 2:18 For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father.
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by shilohproject
Perhaps this should rather be stated, "Since you do not agree with what I believe about what the Bible teaches..":cool:

(It is fairly common, here and elsewhere, to confuse one's personal understanding/opinion with absolute truth.)

I do not want to appear overly blunt, but what I have said I believe is correct. The bible can be understood with a heart intent on understanding. Would God give us a book that is impossible to understand and judge us by our octions by that same book? Would that be fair? No, I don't think He would. We must study and rightly divide the scriptures. Both are commandments. How can we do so unless we can properly understand it? With all due consideration, I stick with what I said.

JustAChristian
 

shilohproject

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by JustAChristian
I do not want to appear overly blunt, but what I have said I believe is correct.
Well, there you have it , folks. No other opinions need apply.

God Bless.
 

JustAChristian

New member
How Does "The Words" Cleanse of Sins?

How Does "The Words" Cleanse of Sins?

Originally posted by HopeofGlory

HopeofGlory says...

You have built your doctrine on what you assume Jesus implied and not on what He expressly stated. That supposition is your basis for scripture interpretation. The Baptist water baptized for remission before the cross and the apostles continued at Pentecost with the same doctrine. Jesus stated that He had a greater witness than that of John the Baptist and His witness was not preached at Pentecost.

What does that have to do with my statement? You do not disprove the requirement for immersion for the remission of sins. You only interject further declamation without purpose.

This statement is yet another example of your ignorance of the scriptures. Water baptism has its roots in Judaism well before John the Baptist. Christ was born under the law and obeyed it completely thus His baptism. Faith in the blood of the new testament for remission is the only essential requirement for entering the kingdom.

Divers washings have their roots in the Law and Prophets, but that is not what I said. I was talking about baptism for the remission of sins. There was and remains a difference in the act.

Your conclusion is built on your assumption that the gift of the Holy Ghost with power at Pentecost is baptism by the Spirit. Water baptism can not spiritually cleanse, only faith in the testimony of Christ cleanses the heart of sinners.

In no way do I conclude that the gift of the Holy Spirit was the baptism with the Holy Spirit! You say that water baptism can not spiritually cleanse. You are correct if you don't have the faith that you speak about. Jesus made it the point of cleansing (Acts 22:16); the point where the heart of man contacts the blood of Christ (Romans 6:3-5), and where salvation is found (1Peter 3:21; Mark 16:16). Faith alone will not save; the same faith you hold to.

It is Christ that baptizes by the Spirit the moment we believe.

You do not find a single example of this in the New Testament. Did the Apostle exercise any belief prior to there experience with the baptismal measure of the Spirit? Did the believers at Pentecost experience and intervention by Jesus to baptize them with the Spirit? Jesus only baptized on two occasions. At the waiting of the apostles on Pentecost and at the household of Cornelius. Find any other occasion and my case is hopelessly lost!

The Pentecostal experience of power is not baptism by the Spirit. Jesus gave the apostles a new testament for remission and they did not mentioned it at Pentecost but continued preaching a baptism of repentance for remission as did the Baptist before the cross. Water baptism does not cleanse the soul only God can. Jesus made that clear when He said...

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. John 6:63

Notice that it was the "words" He spoke that have the power to give life if we believe. His words are the "living water" that cleanses a sinner by faith therefore cleansing the flesh with water is not needed.

When Jesus said, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved," wasn't this his words? How do the words cleanse? Cleansing comes when the words are properly applied to and obeyed from the heart (Romans 6:17-18; 1 Peter 1:22-23). If not, why not? New life comes by doing what the words of Christ require. Baptism for the remission was His requirement after He sent the apostles into all the world (Matthew 28:18-20).

JustAChristian
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Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, (Ephesians 5:25-26 AV)
 

JustAChristian

New member
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: More Rhetoric...

Originally posted by shilohproject
Well, there you have it , folks. No other opinions need apply.

God Bless.

I am sorry, but nowhere are we expected to obey opinions! Opinions are like noses, we all have one! Jesus said, "Ye shall know the truth (not opinions) and the truth shall make you free" ( John 8:32)

JustAChristian
:angel:
 
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