The Hebrew Epistles: Where Do They Fit?

[john w]

You miss the point. I never expect anyone from the Neo-MAD crowd to answer anything.

But it is a lot fun to ask them questions and see what excuses they come up with in order to avoid answering simple questions!

No, I missed nothing. My point, and others, is that you are a condescending, ignorant blowhard, with an unteacheable "spirit," who is not here to learn, or teach others, but is here to "prove" that he is always right, and resorts to "arguments" of sophistry, deceit, when challenged, such as "Cannot answer...No one from the Neo MAD crowd answers me....They attack me...They run and hide.....," and yet, you demand an answer, and yet cannot produce one biblical reason, as to why we should, given the "intent" of your demands for an answer.


Chapter, verse, Jerry. You allegedly "woo" us with your biblical acumen-chapter,verse. Should be quite easy, since you are always right.

You:

 

[aikido7]

Yes, and those who received Hebrews had access into the heavenly sphere, a blessing that just applies only to those in the Body of Christ...

It's perfectly okay to describe the activity of the inspired authors and followers of oral tradition and textual preservation in theological phrases such as "excess to the heavenly sphere..."

But because that phrase is not in the Bible, you must be honest and admit that you are clearly adding to "the Word."

I don't understand how the rest of the theology you offer is pertinent to an evaluation and history of the Book of Hebrews.

 

[john w]

It's perfectly okay to describe the activity of the inspired authors ...

No scripture testifies that the "authors" were "inspired."

And the LORD God is the author.

All scripture is(not was) given by inspiration...

 

[aikido7]

No scripture testifies that the "authors" were "inspired."

And the LORD God is the author.

All scripture is(not was) given by inspiration...

I disagree. I am inspired by the gospels and I believe that the original authors were just as inspired.

You and I might have a difference of opinion as to what "inspired" actually means. I believe the gospel authors were people, not parrots. They were inspired (my opinion) to set down the life of Jesus as they knew it on paper.

I do not see them as some sort of "psychic channelers" who were walking Ouija Boards.

To me the idea that God actually wrote the Bible is true only in a metaphoric sense. The mere fact of the wide divergence in translations and between and among the gospels themselves tells me that there was no ONE author, but perhaps ONE inspirer.

Just as we do, they were mediating the Spirit of God and trying to communicate that to others.

 

[john w]

I disagree. I am inspired by the gospels and I believe that the original authors were just as inspired.

You and I might have a difference of opinion as to what "inspired" actually means. I believe the gospel authors were people, not parrots. They were inspired (my opinion) to set down the life of Jesus as they knew it on paper.

I do not see them as some sort of "psychic channelers" who were walking Ouija Boards.

To me the idea that God actually wrote the Bible is true only in a metaphoric sense. The mere fact of the wide divergence in translations and between and among the gospels themselves tells me that there was no ONE author, but perhaps ONE inspirer.

Just as we do, they were mediating the Spirit of God and trying to communicate that to others.

Made up. The biblical definition of "inspired," not the secular definition(i.e., your " I am inspired by the gospels," "He was so inspiring...!"...............), means "to breath life into." Survey Jobe-the law of "first reference:"



Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.

All scripture is given by inspiration.

 

[aikido7]

Made up. The biblical definition of "inspired," not the secular definition(i.e., your " I am inspired by the gospels," "He was so inspiring...!"...............), means "to breath life into." Survey Jobe-the law of "first reference:"



Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.

All scripture is given by inspiration.

I would only respond that the use of secular definitions is part of the scientific methodology of historical research.

History looks upon theological/spiritual/supernatural explanations as statements of faith, not of factually correct history.

Of course, it is "factually correct" that, say, Anselm of Canterbury first developed the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality. In other words, the theology was placed over the historical event of the crucifixion long after Jesus died.

 

[aikido7]

...Job 32:8 KJV But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.


No scriptures says that Moses, Paul....................(people)were "inspired," and you cannot produce one verse that says that they are.

All scripture is given by inspiration.[/QUOTE]I am confused. You say there are "no scriptures" that are inspired, yet you quote a verse from Job that says something different.

 

[john w]

I would only respond that the use of secular definitions is part of the scientific methodology of historical research.

History looks upon theological/spiritual/supernatural explanations as statements of faith, not of factually correct history.

Of course, it is "factually correct" that, say, Anselm of Canterbury first developed the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality. In other words, the theology was placed over the historical event of the crucifixion long after Jesus died.

My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.

 

[john w]

All scripture is given by inspiration.

I am confused. You say there are "no scriptures" that are inspired, yet you quote a verse from Job that says something different.[/QUOTE]


_____________________________________________________
Knock it off-I never said " there are "no scriptures" that are inspired


Learn how to quote properly. I did.

 

[aikido7]

My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.

Jesus dying as a blood sacrifice for sin was a later overlay put onto his life after he died.

The entire theology of the "blood sacrifice" was worked out 900 years after he died by the theologian Anselm of Canterbury.

Jesus--as did John the Baptizer--believed in coming before a God of mercy with repentance and a contrite heart. Even in the Lord's Prayer Jesus specifically says we are forgiven as we forgive.

Of course, the gospel of John and Paul's theology are different. They both describe a theology of spilled blood on the altar.


In fact, to assert that Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain for humankind's sins, the author of John had to move the day of his death a day earlier to the Day of Preparation. The other gospels report Jesus died on Passover proper.

I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.

Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

We Christians have a rich and diverse history of different traditions and theologies in the text. My own faith has been sanctified and deepened by learning what the original verses meant to those who first wrote them down.

 

[john w]

Jesus dying as a blood sacrifice for sin was a later overlay put onto his life after he died.

The entire theology of the "blood sacrifice" was worked out 900 years after he died by the theologian Anselm of Canterbury.

Jesus--as did John the Baptizer--believed in coming before a God of mercy with repentance and a contrite heart. Even in the Lord's Prayer Jesus specifically says we are forgiven as we forgive.

Of course, the gospel of John and Paul's theology are different. They both describe a theology of spilled blood on the altar.


In fact, to assert that Jesus was the Lamb of God that was slain for humankind's sins, the author of John had to move the day of his death a day earlier to the Day of Preparation. The other gospels report Jesus died on Passover proper.

I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.

Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

We Christians have a rich and diverse history of different traditions and theologies in the text. My own faith has been sanctified and deepened by learning what the original verses meant to those who first wrote them down.

"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you

The above is all we need to know about you, wolfie. Fraud, posing as a member of the boc.

You've been marked/exposed/idenified.

 

[aikido7]

My final authority: The scriptures, which are "true from the beginning"


Vs.

Your final authority:In my opinion..........



Contrasts.


You've been dismissed.....Judges 21:25 KJV



"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you


Vs.

"Religious Affiliation
Christian"-your page




Translated: another wolf, child of the devil, raud, has been marked/exposed/identified


Wolfie.

There is no reason to name-call on this board. If you cannot dialogue like an adult and respect others no matter what their beliefs, then you are always going to be at a serious disadvantage.

Going through life--especially a Christian life--continually judging and evaluating others and paying scant attention to the logs in your own eye first is merely taking you off the path of carrying your own cross in His footsteps.

Too many Christians and Muslims today are bigoted, hypocritical, authoritarian, patriarchal and other-worldly as it is.

It gives us a bad name in a time when we need the most converts.

 

[aikido7]

"the theology of Jesus dying as payment for human sins, but it is not reality."-you

The above is all we need to know about you, wolfie. Fraud, posing as a member of the boc.

You've been marked/exposed/idenified.

First of all, I am a Christian.

The norm of the Bible is simple: Jesus of Nazareth. All Christian faith flows through Jesus.

The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament.

I demand that you take Jesus seriously before dipping into any personal theology or later theological categorizations of Jesus.

And finally, the quotations from the gospels offered have to be acknowledged and at least read by you.

Bible Study is actually "Studying the Bible."

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

I see your point, but I'm convinced that the church of God refers to the "kingdom church" for lack of a better word.

There is only one congregation.

 

[1Mind1Spirit]

Yup!

Nope.

 

[heir]

Lol, more like go study out how to study a thing out... soundly.

I'm not going to hold my breath that he will, but I hope he does.

 

[heir]

Of course you will not answer. You want us to believe that 1 Corinthians was written to the so-called kingdom church where there are no members of the Body of Christ.

I believe the scriptures show that there was a mixed bag (as some say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

 

[john w]

The only way one can answer you is for both of us to recognize what exactly is IN the Bible as far as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament.

You are not in my league. Watch, as I expose you for the biblical illiterate that you are, a fraud, poser, humnist, just spamming, "In my opinion....I think..."


Acts 20:35 KJV I have shewed you all things, how that so labouring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than to receive.

Show us the chapter, verse, where the Lord Jesus ever said:

It is more blessed to give than to receive



Per your "as what Jesus says himself in the New Testament" "argument."


Fraud. Poser. Oprah-"In my opinion...."

 

[glorydaz]

I believe there was a mixed bag (as they say) at Corinth and all not necessarily became members of the one Body of Christ. Some did and some didn't.

Exactly. One of Jerry's problems is his idea that everyone in a particular assembly is cut from the same cloth. It's actually very naive of him and down right ignorant, IMO. It's why Paul says to examine yourself whether you be in the faith.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?​

 

[john w]

I see lots of contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible, but because they are there I am bound to study them honestly and take them seriously.

There are no contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible; do not confuse your lack of understanding, due to 2 Cor. 4:4 KJV/1 Cor. 2:124 KJV, and your lack of reading comprehension skills, for any alleged contradictions and discrepancies in the Bible. Millions before you, have tried to "prove" these "contradictions and discrepancies," and the bible, the hamer,has grounded them down/pounded them. Get saved/grow a brain, or get grounded down-your choice.

Because of my faith in God, I just do not feel threatened by the diversity.

False dichotomy.

You'd have no objective revelation of "God," and thus no faith in God, w/o the book by which he is objectively revealed. You reject that book. What the bible says, God says. The bible knows no such distinction.


Muslims can say "Because of my faith in God.."

And?

We Christians...

Strike "We"-you're a wolf, poser, fraud.