The Eternal Purpose of creation !

[beloved57]

All things were made for and by Christ His redemptive purpose !

Col 1:14-17

¹⁴ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

All things created by Him and for Him includes adam in the beginning. Adam was made by Him for His redemptive purpose, from sin. Gods Highest Honor and Glory was to be through the redemptive work of Christ and not in adam as an innocent.

Proverbs agrees Prov 16:4

⁴The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The LORD here is the Triune Godhead, which includes Christ, and so He Christ made Adam for Himself, for a redemptive purpose from sin.

 

[Nanja]

All things were made for and by Christ His redemptive purpose !

Col 1:14-17

¹⁴ In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:


¹⁵ Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:


¹⁶ For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:


¹⁷ And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

All things created by Him and for Him includes adam in the beginning. Adam was made by Him for His redemptive purpose, from sin. Gods Highest Honor and Glory was to be through the redemptive work of Christ and not in adam as an innocent.

Proverbs agrees Prov 16:4

⁴The Lord hath made all things for himself: yea, even the wicked for the day of evil.

The LORD here is the Triune Godhead, which includes Christ, and so He Christ made Adam for Himself, for a redemptive purpose from sin.

Amen, two of the "all things" that Christ Created Col. 1:16-17 were the dominions of sin Rom. 6:14 and death Rom. 6:9, so that Adam and His posterity in him, Created in the Image and Likeness of God, the Seed of Christ Eph. 1:4-7, predestinated to be conformed to the Image of His Son Rom. 8:29, would sin in Adam and be redeemed from eternal death Rom. 6:23 by the Redemptive Work of His Cross. And the Lord also Created the wicked Prov. 16:4, whom He never loved Ps. 5:5, for a suitable Purpose in Christ Acts 2:23.

 

[beloved57]

Eternal Life through Christ was promised before Adam was Created Titus 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Rom 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The point here that needs to be made is that this Eternal Life was never to be through Adam, but always through Christ, and that through redemption. At best Adam even if he never sinned would only have had for us natural life, which is far inferior to the Heavenly Eternal Life God promised for His People before the world began. The Heavenly Kingdom God designed and promised could not be inherited by flesh and blood which was what Adam was. 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Matt 25:34

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

 

[Nanja]

Eternal Life through Christ was promised before Adam was Created Titus 1:2

In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began;

Rom 6:23

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Jn 2:25

And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

1 Jn 5:11

And this is the record, that God hath given to us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.

The point here that needs to be made is that this Eternal Life was never to be through Adam, but always through Christ, and that through redemption. At best Adam even if he never sinned would only have had for us natural life, which is far inferior to the Heavenly Eternal Life God promised for His People before the world began. The Heavenly Kingdom God designed and promised could not be inherited by flesh and blood which was what Adam was. 1 Cor 15:50

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Matt 25:34

Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

Amen Brother !

Eternal Life was never premised upon what Adam did or did not do in the Garden, but was from Everlasting Promised to a Specific Seed of mankind, the Seed of Christ [the Election of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9] through the shedding of His Blood Rom. 5:9-10 as their Surety Heb. 7:22 in the Everlasting Covenant of Grace Heb. 13:20.

John 17:1-4

1 These words spake Jesus, and lifted up his eyes to heaven, and said, Father, the hour is come; glorify thy Son, that thy Son also may glorify thee:

2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.

3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.


So The Work Christ finished that the Father gave Him to do in the Everlasting Covenant was before the world began; before Adam was Created !

 

[ttruscott]

YES, our lives on earth were created for only one purpose, the redemption of the sinful elect believers, the sheep. This proves HE had no reason to create the non-elect, nor would HE create anyone a sinner by any means including not by Adam.

There is NO reason to create sinners who cannot be redeemed when redemption is HIS only purpose.
There is NO reason to create sinners who NEED to be redeemed JUST to predetermine their lives so they CAN BE redeemed!

The mind boggles at the cognitive discontinuity of these doctrines!

 

[beloved57]

Christ was appointed heir of the world through redemption glory before the world was made by Him Heb 1:2-3


2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Paul writes also in Col 1 how all things were made by and for Christ Col 1:14-17

14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: See Heb 1:3

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

 

[Nanja]

[FONT=&]Christ was appointed heir of the world through redemption glory before the world was made by Him Heb 1:2-3

[/FONT]
[FONT=&]2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:

Paul writes also in Col 1 how all things were made by and for Christ Col 1:14-17[/FONT]
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14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: See Heb 1:3
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
[/FONT]
[FONT=&]17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.


[/FONT]
[FONT=&]
[/FONT]

Amen ! Christ Jesus as Heir Heb. 1:2-3 and Creator of all things Col. 1:16, was set up from Everlasting Prov. 8:22-23; Eph. 3:11 as Surety / Mediator Heb. 7:22 for a Redemptive Purpose; that is to Save His People, Chosen In Union with Him of the Father [His Church / Bride] from Everlasting Eph. 1:4-7, from their sins John 17:2: Rom. 6:14 !

 

[beloved57]

Was it Gods purpose that Adam sin/transgress ?

 

[Nanja]

Was it Gods purpose that Adam sin/transgress ?

Yes indeed, the sin of Adam was Purposed by God for a redemptive purpose in Christ.

Eph. 1:9-10

9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:


Eph. 3:9-11

9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:

10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God,

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[ttruscott]

Yes indeed, the sin of Adam was Purposed by God for a redemptive purpose in Christ.

Eph. 1:9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: 10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Eph. 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: 10 To the intent that now unto the principalities and powers in heavenly places might be known by the church the manifold wisdom of God, 11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

But these verses says nothing about needing Adam to fall so they could be fulfilled. That is, these verses do not say that Creation or Adam was created evil so creation could be gathered together in one all things in Christ BUT can just as easily be seen to refer to the fall stopping HIS purpose for creation, ie, the heavenly marriage being the reason for our creation as shown by its being the culmination of the bible and only happening after the banishment of the reprobate. IF the fall slowed HIS fulfilment of HIS purpose, how can it be a part of the fulfillment of HIS purpose?

If the judgement of HIS supposed evil creation had to be postponed for the redemption of the good seed before the judgement could happen as per the parable of the good seed, Matt 13, then how can the sin of the good seed be considered to be part of HIS plan for the judgement and HIS marriage?

I contend that at our creation everyone was created with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to choose to become HIS eternal family or HIS eternal enemy, that is, no one was created evil nor righteous.

 

[beloved57]

But these verses says nothing about needing Adam to fall so they could be fulfilled. That is, these verses do not say that Creation or Adam was created evil so creation could be gathered together in one all things in Christ BUT can just as easily be seen to refer to the fall stopping HIS purpose for creation, ie, the heavenly marriage being the reason for our creation as shown by its being the culmination of the bible and only happening after the banishment of the reprobate. IF the fall slowed HIS fulfilment of HIS purpose, how can it be a part of the fulfillment of HIS purpose?

If the judgement of HIS supposed evil creation had to be postponed for the redemption of the good seed before the judgement could happen as per the parable of the good seed, Matt 13, then how can the sin of the good seed be considered to be part of HIS plan for the judgement and HIS marriage?

I contend that at our creation everyone was created with a free will and an equal ability and opportunity to choose to become HIS eternal family or HIS eternal enemy, that is, no one was created evil nor righteous.

Its apparent you dont understand Gods Eternal redemptive purpose set up in Christ before the world began. I have tried to explain it to you as well as Sister Nanja but you wont receive it, so be it !

 

[ttruscott]

Its apparent you dont understand Gods Eternal redemptive purpose set up in Christ before the world began. I have tried to explain it to you as well as Sister Nanja but you wont receive it, so be it !

Of course I don't understand it - it is nonsense filled with contradictions. Why berate me when all you have to do is exegete the verses I quote and explain where they do not say what I claim they say?

You seem to have accepted the premise of my post #325 pretty well but refused the questions, eh?

 

[beloved57]

Of course I don't understand it - it is nonsense filled with contradictions. Why berate me when all you have to do is exegete the verses I quote and explain where they do not say what I claim they say?

You seem to have accepted the premise of my post #325 pretty well but refused the questions, eh?

Since you don't understand you are wasting our time. There's the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

 

[ttruscott]

Since you don't understand you are wasting our time. There's the Eternal Purpose in Christ Eph3:11

11 According to the eternal purpose which he purposed in Christ Jesus our Lord:

HIS eternal purpose in Christ was to save any free will sinner who put his free will faith in Christ so they could marry in the heavenly state of holiness...

NOT to make, create, cause anyone to be born as sinners so they could be redeemed!

 

[beloved57]

HIS eternal purpose in Christ was to save any free will sinner who put his free will faith in Christ so they could marry in the heavenly state of holiness...

NOT to make, create, cause anyone to be born as sinners so they could be redeemed!

False and invalid comments no where found in scripture.

 

[beloved57]

Folks what came first, The Eternal Purpose of God Eph 3:11;2 Tim 1:9 or Creation of the world with Adam and Eve ?

 

[Nanja]

Folks what came first, The Eternal Purpose of God Eph 3:11;2 Tim 1:9 or Creation of the world with Adam and Eve ?

Definitely the Eternal Purpose of God Eph. 3:11.

Adam and Eve were Created within the scope of God's Eternal Purpose of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9, whereby sin would enter the world through Adam, and death by sin Rom. 5:12.

For according to God's Eternal Purpose of Grace 2 Tim. 1:9, Christ being the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world Rev. 13:8; God would not charge the sins of His Sheep to them, which were already Chosen in Christ before the foundation to have remission of sins Eph. 1:4-7.

Is. 53:6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD hath laid on him the iniquity of us all.

Rom. 4:8 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord will not impute sin.

 

[beloved57]

This world was created for a merciful purpose !

No not for all men without exception but for them called the vessels of mercy Rom 9

[FONT=&quot]21Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction:[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

This Glory comes through Jesus Christ . Jesus says of these vessels of mercy Jn 17:20-23

[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]22And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:

2 Tim 2:10

Therefore I endure all things for the elect's sakes, that they may also obtain the salvation which is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

Now this merciful purpose unto eternal glory for the vessels of mercy necessitated by the purpose of God, sin coming into the world through Adam.[/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

Prov 3:19

[FONT=&quot]The [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Lord[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT]by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Christ the Redeemer/Savior is the Wisdom of God 1 Cor 1:24

24 [FONT=&quot]But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

Thats why all things were made by Him and for Him Col 1:16

[/FONT]16[FONT=&quot]For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him[Christ the Wisdom of God], and for him:[/FONT]

 

[beloved57]

God created this world for a merciful purpose in Christ so that He would make known the riches of His Glory,

Rom 9:23

23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory,

John Gill says of this sacred phase "the riches of his glory "

And that he might make known the riches of his glory,.... That is, his glorious riches, the perfections of his nature, his love, grace, and mercy, his wisdom, power, faithfulness, justice, and holiness; all which are most evidently displayed in the salvation of his people, here calledvessels of mercy,