ECT The core of the argument between Christians and MAD.

[andyc]

It Is Not Secret Knowledge For Only Certain People. When I Read The Bible, I Picture Myself Face To Face, Looking Into The Eyes Of The Speaker Or Prophet, The Emphasis And Passion, Hearing From God. The Mystery Today Is Corporate Churches Feeding Off Of Guilt And Shame, Strife And Everyday Problems Of Christians, Confusing And Focusing On The Wrong Aspects Of The Bible. Namely, The Free Gift Of Salvation In God's Grace Which Came Through Christ Jesus. To Paul First, From Jesus, And Nobody Explains It Better Than Paul Except Jesus. See How That Works Andy ? It's Working. Holy Spirit, That Is.

It's the "Paul first" issue that's what is controversial.
Paul was a minister to the gentiles because that was his calling. He was an apostle to the gentiles. The difference between Paul's message and the other apostles, is that Paul had to introduce the God of Israel to pagan gentiles, where as the Jews were already familiar with the God of the Hebrew scriptures.
A classic example of Paul ministering his gospel is shown in Acts 17 where he explains the God of the bible to the Athenians who were given over to idolatry. Paul makes use of an inscription of an unknown God, to make known the only God. This is what makes Paul's ministry unique compared to the other apostles.
Instead of using the scriptures to preach, Paul makes use of other means to get his point across, and he explains that the only God who is not an image made of gold, wood, or stone, requires all people everywhere to repent of idolatry and works of darkness, and seek him with a pure heart.

 

[Cross Reference]

It's the "Paul first" issue that's what is controversial.
Paul was a minister to the gentiles because that was his calling. He was an apostle to the gentiles. The difference between Paul's message and the other apostles, is that Paul had to introduce the God of Israel to pagan gentiles, where as the Jews were already familiar with the God of the Hebrew scriptures.
A classic example of Paul ministering his gospel is shown in Acts 17 where he explains the God of the bible to the Athenians who were given over to idolatry. Paul makes use of an inscription of an unknown God, to make known the only God. This is what makes Paul's ministry unique compared to the other apostles.
Instead of using the scriptures to preach, Paul makes use of other means to get his point across, and he explains that the only God who is not an image made of gold, wood, or stone, requires all people everywhere to repent of idolatry and works of darkness, and seek him with a pure heart.

You are most correct, andyc. Get rid of the false notion of dispensations as the means by which God used to convey the knowledge of His salvation and the issue of MAD would evaporate.

 

[Cross Reference]

delete duplicate

 

[musterion]

Where's that "tongues" audio, Andy?

 

[andyc]

Where's that "tongues" audio, Andy?

1 Corinthians 14:2 For he who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God

 

[musterion]

1 Cor 14:22

Deny that and deny God's will.

 

[andyc]

1 Cor 14:22

Deny that and deny God's will.

There's nothing to deny.
Paul is quoting Isaiah. The understanding is that if people refuse to hear the word of God in their own tongue, God will cause them to hear words even more unintelligibly in another tongue not understood. Therefore the tongues that no one understands, were a sign that God was speaking through gentiles as a way of rebuke because of their unbelief.

 

[Right Divider]

<cut>
No one can tell me TOL is unbiased and does not favor those who are recruited to further their OT and MADist "cause."

1) Where did TOL ever claim to be "unbiased"?
2) Why don't you start your own "biased" site?
3) Why do you come here? Just to complain?

Your "theology" is completely messed-up.
Either learn something here or leave.

 

[Nick M]

If "whore" is so excusably an accepted biblical term, why was I recently banned for 2 weeks from TOL for inexcusably using it to describe a MADist?

Because it is without cause.

 

[Tambora]

Infraction came from Knight for my supposedly "provoking" (a MADist provocateur) by using the term "whore" describing the trolling tactics of GM (which description I thought to be, indeed, most accurate.)

This censorship imposed against me, came despite the fact I have been often been vilified by this very term (and worse), by MADists.

I remember.
You got an infraction for this post:

.

(click on link to see full context)

And you used that same word after you repeatedly reported others for using it.

No one can tell me TOL is unbiased and does not favor those who are recruited to further their OT and MADist "cause."

TOL states plainly that it is biased. It says so in the statement one must agree to in order to join this site.
You agreed to it.

But that bias only goes so far.
So don't even try to make it sound like MADists do not also get infractions.



But in my opinion, that was not the most diabolical thing you have done here at TOL.
Of all the ugly things you have done on TOL, one of the worst (in my opinion) was when you jumped into a conversation where the sex life and amount of children of Elohim and his wife 1PeaceMaker, and you started referring to his wife as 1 Piece. And when confronted with it, you just laughed and kept right on.


So, if you want to complain about people not being gracious to others, starting with yourself might be a good idea.

 

[musterion]

Nang is filthy. That's probably why she finds Calvinism so attractive.

 

[Cross Reference]

There's nothing to deny.
Paul is quoting Isaiah. The understanding is that if people refuse to hear the word of God in their own tongue, God will cause them to hear words even more unintelligibly in another tongue not understood. Therefore the tongues that no one understands, were a sign that God was speaking through gentiles as a way of rebuke because of their unbelief.

Help me out with that one. . .

 

[Tambora]

Nang is filthy. That's probably why she finds Calvinism so attractive.

Nang is like everyone else in the flesh.
She has her nice moments and her ugly moments.


If this thread was about the deity of Christ, Nang would be one in which I would appreciate her posts. And she would probably appreciate mine, and yours.

The point I have tried to make is that no one here is exempt from being ugly to others here at times.

 

[Nang]

Of all the ugly things you have done on TOL, one of the worst (in my opinion) was when you jumped into a conversation where the sex life and amount of children of Elohim and his wife 1PeaceMaker, and you started referring to his wife as 1 Piece. And when confronted with it, you just laughed and kept right on.

I cannot defend myself against this anecdote, because you provide no source, and I do not remember ever using that term for Elohim's wife.

Elohim, if I did say anything like the above, in jest, please forgive me. You know I am happy about your family and the health of your wife and children.

So, if you want to complain about people not being gracious to others, starting with yourself might be a good idea.

Agreed. Back at you, too.

 

[andyc]

Help me out with that one. . .

Sure

In 1Cor 15:21-22 Paul says.... In the law it is written: "With men of other tongues and other lips I will speak to this people; And yet, for all that, they will not hear Me," says the Lord. Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers

It is a reference to Isaiah 28:11-12 For with stammering lips and another tongue He will speak to this people, To whom He said, "This is the rest with which You may cause the weary to rest," And, "This is the refreshing"; Yet they would not hear. where the people refused to receive instruction from the Lord, and so they would go back to the basics

And so the sign is negative to those who do not believe. The people rejected the word of the Lord, and so they were forced to listen to gentiles who were ruling over them speaking in foreign languages. They refused to listen to God, and were unable to understand the tongues of the gentiles, and this was a sign that the word of God spoken against them had come true. They refused to listen to God (unbelievers) and couldn't understand the foreign tongues.
The idea is to not speak in tongues publicly without there being an interpretation, otherwise the tongue will only be negative to those who are unbelievers, rather than being edified. God is still speaking to people, he hasn't given them up.

 

[musterion]

The point I have tried to make is that no one here is exempt from being ugly to others here at times.

No argument there, but there remains a big difference: we acknowledge our fleshly filth. We don't pretend it isn't there when it plainly is.

 

[Nang]

No argument there, but there remains a big difference: we acknowledge our fleshly filth. We don't pretend it isn't there when it plainly is.

I could give you a long list of MADists who deny their sins altogether. They think the grace of God is denied, if sin remaining in the flesh is admitted.

Go ask them . . .

 

[musterion]

Help me out with that one. . .

I don't know why I'm wasting this on you but Andy, for once, hit very near the truth: Tongues are actually a sign of displeasure and judgment against unrepentant, unbelieving Israel. When God stopped dealing with Israel as Israel, when they'd heard and seen all there was to hear and see of Christ, tongues ceased.

So the question now is, what's been going on the past 100+ years with this alleged gentile revival of Pentecost and it's "tongues"? If they're not from God (and they demonstrably are not), what are they? More importantly, where do they come from? There's only two choices there, neither one good. Or they could be both.

 

[musterion]

I could give you a long list of MADists who deny their sins altogether.

What do you mean by "deny their sins altogether"?

They think the grace of God is denied, if sin remaining in the flesh is admitted.

That's all the flesh CAN do. I admit that freely, as did Paul! Who doesn't?

Go ask them . . .

Why should I? You have a list, post it.

 

[andyc]

I don't know why I'm wasting this on you but Andy, for once, hit very near the truth: Tongues are actually a sign of displeasure and judgment against unrepentant, unbelieving Israel. When God stopped dealing with Israel as Israel, when they'd heard and seen all there was to hear and see of Christ, tongues ceased.

So the question now is, what's been going on the past 100+ years with this alleged gentile revival of Pentecost and it's "tongues"? If they're not from God (and they demonstrably are not), what are they? More importantly, where do they come from? There's only two choices there, neither one good. Or they could be both.

Nope

If this was the case, speaking in tongues would be positive. If God was dealing with a rebellious Israel, speaking in tongues without interpretation would be required. Paul is trying to discourage the practice in church without an interpreter because the word from God is clear in this dispensation. A time of favor, not judgement.

God is pouring himself out on all flesh.