The Abortion/Homosexuality Paradox

[quip]

Well, considering you know that the unborn baby cannot be tucked in, your comparison doesn't apply.

Don't blame me that one of your fellow anti-lifers compared children with animals.

:idunno:
Just making a point of differentiation between zygotes and babies.

If that doesn't resonate with you...then pass it along to someone who it does.

 

[glassjester]

Like what? And keeping mind how rare your examples will be compared to an unwanted pregnancy.

This is some wacky logic.

A child is dependent on other people for a long, long time. Not just prenatally.

And yes, that means losing some autonomy, doesn't it?


Try to square some examples with your way of thinking:

Mommy wants her body to be in Aruba for 2 weeks. So she leaves her 6-month old baby at home to starve. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.

Mommy puts 1-year-old baby in the bath. Mommy's body is tired. Mommy decides she wants her body to go to sleep now. Mommy sleeps all night; baby drowns. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.

Mommy has a 20-week-old baby in her womb. Mommy decides she doesn't want to be pregnant. She pays a doctor to pull the baby's body out of her and kill it. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.


In all of these situations, a loss of the mother's autonomy was necessary to preserve the baby's life.
Yet I doubt you'd argue that the first two ought to be legally acceptable.
What makes the third example any different?

Still no answer... What makes the third example any different from the other two?


Still no answer... Does the fetal child have a right to live, just as the mother has the right to bodily autonomy?

 

[TomO]

Like what? And keeping mind how rare your examples will be compared to an unwanted pregnancy.

:AMR: Really? Off the top of my head: Recreational drug usage, marriage rights, surrogate pregnancy, assisted suicide, sex work, voluntary amputation, and gender reassignment surgery. The rarity is an irrelevancy but I doubt you can put drug use and sex work into a "rare" category. Of course the really cool thing is that none of those instances involve murdering a human life.

I'm simply pointing out that you and I do not have control of other people's bodies.

I'm well aware of your simplistic point....

So far, I have not seen anyone post a good reason why they should be allowed to usurp another persons physical autonomy. Insults and declarations of self-righteousness don't count.

Perhaps if someone tore your legs off with some steel clamps you may find one....Take that as you will. :e4e:

 

[quip]

Still no answer... Does the fetal child have a right to live, just as the mother has the right to bodily autonomy?

Perhaps, but then again baby can't live sans the mother's body...mom trumps.

 

[glassjester]

Perhaps, but then again baby can't live sans the mother's body...mom trumps.

Why? :think:

 

[TomO]

Perhaps, but then again baby can't live sans the mother's body...mom trumps.

So....You would be fine with outlawing abortion once the child reaches a point where can live outside the mothers womb?

 

[Rusha]

:idunno:
Just making a point

You made no *point*.

 

[quip]

Why? :think:

A dead fetus cannot support a right to life. :idea:

 

[quip]

So....You would be fine with outlawing abortion once the child reaches a point where can live outside the mothers womb?

The state calls it...a "compelling interest". I see no reason to insist otherwise.

 

[quip]

You made no *point*.

Then we have much in common.

Free this friday? :straight:

 

[glassjester]

A dead fetus cannot support a right to life. :idea:

:doh: Really?

Nor can any victim of murder. You're reasoning boils down to, "Dead men tell no tales."



I'm asking why you say that the fetal child's right to live is trumped by the mother's supposed "right to bodily autonomy" ?

 

[PureX]

Off the top of my head: Recreational drug usage (that's legal and becoming more-so), marriage rights (that's archaic), surrogate pregnancy (that's legal), assisted suicide (that's legal in some places and becoming more-so), sex work (that's legal in some places and becoming more-so), voluntary amputation (so rare as to be insignificant), and gender reassignment surgery (legal in most places and becoming more-so). The rarity is an irrelevancy (to you) but I doubt you can put drug use and sex work into a "rare" category. Of course the really cool thing is that none of those instances involve murdering a human life.

"Murder" is only an expression of your own bias. Legally and definitively, no murder occurs during an abortion.

 

[PureX]

Still no answer...

Still no answer...

Just because you didn't understand the answer doesn't mean you didn't get one. And the more you behave like a fool the more likely I will be to ignore you.

 

[PureX]

So....You would be fine with outlawing abortion once the child reaches a point where can live outside the mothers womb?

That is the current law.

 

[glassjester]

That is the current law.

It's really a shame that law defines your morality.

 

[glassjester]

Just because you didn't understand the answer doesn't mean you didn't get one.

You never once answered this.

Does the fetal child have a right to live, just as the mother has a right to bodily autonomy?



Speaking of not answering...

Mommy wants her body to be in Aruba for 2 weeks. So she leaves her 6-month old baby at home to starve. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.

Mommy puts 1-year-old baby in the bath. Mommy's body is tired. Mommy decides she wants her body to go to sleep now. Mommy sleeps all night; baby drowns. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.

Mommy has a 20-week-old baby in her womb. Mommy decides she doesn't want to be pregnant. She pays a doctor to pull the baby's body out of her and kill it. Oh well, Mommy does what she wants with her own body.


In all of these situations, a loss of the mother's autonomy was necessary to preserve the baby's life.
Yet I doubt you'd argue that the first two ought to be legally acceptable.
What makes the third example any different?

Any ideas yet?

And the more you behave like a fool the more likely I will be to ignore you.

If calling me names helps you to become more of the person you wish to be, then have at it.

 

[PureX]

You never once answered this.

Does the fetal child have a right to live, just as the mother has a right to bodily autonomy?

You never asked that. But I've already answered it several posts back.

The problem is that you can't grasp my answers because you won't entertain the idea that there is an alternative point of view on this. Like most anti-abortion proponents, you don't hear anything over the din of your own self-righteous emotionalism. So you can't actually carry on a conversation with those who disagree with it.

 

[glassjester]

This isn't about the "right to life", it's about one's physical autonomy. The fetus does not have a right to usurp the mother's physical autonomy. And neither does anyone else.

Was that the answer you are saying you gave?

Let's try to clarify it.
I am not asking if the fetus has a right to usurp anyone's autonomy.
I am asking if the fetus has a right to live, just as much as the mother has a right to bodily autonomy.

So... Does he?

 

[glassjester]

The problem is that you can't grasp my answers because you won't entertain the idea that there is an alternative point of view on this. Like most anti-abortion proponents, you don't hear anything over the din of your own self-righteous emotionalism. So you can't actually carry on a conversation with those who disagree with it.

Okay, okay. I get it. Your intellectual capabilities are so vast in comparison to my own, that I couldn't possibly understand your inherently superior point of view.

But I'm going to try to understand anyway. Is that alright, Sir?

 

[Stripe]

Why is it that [anti-abortion advocates], who are so determined to stop all women from having abortions, suddenly [advocate criminal justice over] ... fetuses as soon as a fetus grows up and turns out to be gay?

Why is it that liberals ask questions where the answer would be obvious if they worded them honestly?