The 50th. anniversary of Martin Luther King's "I have a dream..."

PureX

Well-known member
Of all the places I've lived, I saw the most prejudice in southern California when I lived there in the '70s. While there was prejudice against Blacks, there was more against Mexicans. I couldn't understand why. The Mexicans I worked with were the nicest people. When a car dealer was refusing to take my check for work done and refusing to give me my keys back, it was a Mexican in-line behind me who volunteered to drive me to my apartment, then back to the dealership so I could I could pay them in cash. The guy who drove to and from the dealership didn't want any money, but I forced him to take $5, at least I could pay for his gas.
When I moved to Chicago, I came into contact with Latinos from a number of different countries, but I think the folks from Mexico were the nicest. I don't know why that would be, but they were especially kind, good-natured, honest, and friendly people. I can very easily imagine that fellow helping you out with a ride.

It seems odd to me that So. Cal. would be that way when there's such a long and intermingled history, there, between Mexico and the U.S.
 
When I moved to Chicago, I came into contact with Latinos from a number of different countries, but I think the folks from Mexico were the nicest. I don't know why that would be, but they were especially kind, good-natured, honest, and friendly people. I can very easily imagine that fellow helping you out with a ride.

It seems odd to me that So. Cal. would be that way when there's such a long and intermingled history, there, between Mexico and the U.S.
It surprised me too. I have no idea what it's like now. As part of my work there in the late '70s, I was working with a young engineer from Venezuala (originally from Nicaragua) who didn't speak a word of English. Within a week, he was able to put words together so we could communicate. Within 2 - 3 weeks, he was forming sentences. Very smart young man and very nice and easy to get along with.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Then we have a difference of opinion, when the POTUS injected himself into a local police matter by
1. Saying if he had a son he would look like Trayvon.
2. When POTUS said that 35 years ago he could have been Trayvon.
He injected himself into the matter, similar to when he said the Cambridge Mass police 'acted stupidly' especially when he him self admitted he didn't know all the facts, these are examples of foolishness.

I think we indeed have a difference of opinion, because Presidents do comment on, and relate themselves to what the citizens of this country are going through and experiencing. It's something that humanizes the office and keeps some connection with what can be a very detached relationship between the executive and the citizens. Here's part of what Obama said which I thought was very well done and no, I'm not a supporter of him or his administration. And yet, I recognize something that's reflective and balanced in his words. Is there any part of the following with which you'd have a problem? Put aside politics for a moment while you read it:

The second thing I want to say is to reiterate what I said on Sunday, which is there's going to be a lot of arguments about the legal issues in the case -- I'll let all the legal analysts and talking heads address those issues. The judge conducted the trial in a professional manner. The prosecution and the defense made their arguments. The juries were properly instructed that in a case such as this reasonable doubt was relevant, and they rendered a verdict. And once the jury has spoken, that's how our system works. But I did want to just talk a little bit about context and how people have responded to it and how people are feeling.

You know, when Trayvon Martin was first shot I said that this could have been my son. Another way of saying that is Trayvon Martin could have been me 35 years ago. And when you think about why, in the African American community at least, there's a lot of pain around what happened here, I think it's important to recognize that the African American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn't go away.

There are very few African American men in this country who haven't had the experience of being followed when they were shopping in a department store. That includes me. There are very few African American men who haven't had the experience of walking across the street and hearing the locks click on the doors of cars. That happens to me -- at least before I was a senator. There are very few African Americans who haven't had the experience of getting on an elevator and a woman clutching her purse nervously and holding her breath until she had a chance to get off. That happens often.

And I don't want to exaggerate this, but those sets of experiences inform how the African American community interprets what happened one night in Florida. And it's inescapable for people to bring those experiences to bear. The African American community is also knowledgeable that there is a history of racial disparities in the application of our criminal laws -- everything from the death penalty to enforcement of our drug laws. And that ends up having an impact in terms of how people interpret the case.

Now, this isn't to say that the African American community is naïve about the fact that African American young men are disproportionately involved in the criminal justice system; that they're disproportionately both victims and perpetrators of violence. It's not to make excuses for that fact -- although black folks do interpret the reasons for that in a historical context. They understand that some of the violence that takes place in poor black neighborhoods around the country is born out of a very violent past in this country, and that the poverty and dysfunction that we see in those communities can be traced to a very difficult history.

And so the fact that sometimes that's unacknowledged adds to the frustration. And the fact that a lot of African American boys are painted with a broad brush and the excuse is given, well, there are these statistics out there that show that African American boys are more violent -- using that as an excuse to then see sons treated differently causes pain.

I think the African American community is also not naïve in understanding that, statistically, somebody like Trayvon Martin was statistically more likely to be shot by a peer than he was by somebody else. So folks understand the challenges that exist for African American boys. But they get frustrated, I think, if they feel that there's no context for it and that context is being denied. And that all contributes I think to a sense that if a white male teen was involved in the same kind of scenario, that, from top to bottom, both the outcome and the aftermath might have been different.

Now, the question for me at least, and I think for a lot of folks, is where do we take this? How do we learn some lessons from this and move in a positive direction? I think it's understandable that there have been demonstrations and vigils and protests, and some of that stuff is just going to have to work its way through, as long as it remains nonviolent. If I see any violence, then I will remind folks that that dishonors what happened to Trayvon Martin and his family. But beyond protests or vigils, the question is, are there some concrete things that we might be able to do.


http://www.nationaljournal.com/whit...nt-obama-s-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-20130719


In the cases discussed an affiliation with and glorification of gansta/thug mentality, which is usually prevelant with an adolescent mind.
On a broader level it is the break down of the family unit.
But seriously I blame Bush.... I kid.
Let's go with the breakdown of the family unit. What do you think to be causative factors?

Well rather like scar tissue, picture a boxers eyes, if you hit them the scar tissue just rips open and bleeds all over.
So it is with the people who are affectionately known as the race baiters, race hustlers, who have their worth tied into the 'unfairness' of America, who take every opportunity to exploit an issue, rather than discuss inhumanity carried out by one person against another and condemn such actions. Instead their aim is to strike at deep seated emotional scars for the express purpose of blood shed not healing.
Okay, put aside Al Sharpton for a moment. Is anyone who thinks there still remains much to be done when it comes to attitudes about race in this country a race baiter? Does that immediately put them, in your mind, in the Al Sharpton camp?
 

99lamb

New member
annabenedetti
I think we indeed have a difference of opinion,
Would POTUS's speech resonated with you if he said - A life cut short the result of a teen who lost his way, Trayvon was a troubled youth, the transformation from that 12yr old boy to the No Limit Nigga, is a symptom no the disease that festers in the Black community. Where single mothers, divorce, gang life and violence are all too common.Where one is called a sellout or an Uncle Tom for wanting to pursue an education, work instead of selling drugs or stealing. Where excuses are made rather than taking responsibility for your actions, Trayvon was suspended from school for fighting, was found with stolen jewelry, he bragged about smoking pot....
Just wondering.


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Let's go with the breakdown of the family unit. What do you think to be causative factors?
http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/viewSubCategory.asp?id=1261
and another article, but the same sentiment and facts
http://blessedaaron08.wordpress.com...se-off-today-than-in-the-1960′s-report-shows/



Okay, put aside Al Sharpton for a moment. Is anyone who thinks there still remains much to be done when it comes to attitudes about race in this country a race baiter? Does that immediately put them, in your mind, in the Al Sharpton camp?

Tell me what you think of this man as compared to Al Sharpton.
http://hutchpost.org/pastor-ken-hutcherson-to-rev-al-sharpton-not-again/
 

aCultureWarrior

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We've come a long way from 3/5 of a person but we've got a long way to go, as recent events show all too clearly.

And thanks to frauds like Martin Luther King Jr., babies in the womb count as 0/5 of a person.

fa1zyb.jpg
 

aCultureWarrior

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highlander_school_scan.jpg


Highlander Folk School training session, 1957, from the Augusta Courier in the days when communism was a bad thing. Shown are M. L. King (1), Abner W. Berry of the Central Committee of the Communist Party (2), Aubrey Williams, president of the Southern Conference Educational Fund, a Communist front (3), and Myles Horton, founder of the school (4).
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Rosa Parks is in that photo as well, BTW.

There is some controversy regarding the people around Martin Luther King Jr. at the time, but there's little out there to prove that he was a Communist, and polemics is not necessarily proof, and often isn't.

The FBI feared Levison was working as an "agent of influence" over King, in spite of its own reports in 1963 that Levison had left the Party and was no longer associated in business dealings with them.[197] Another King lieutenant, Hunter Pitts O'Dell, was also linked to the Communist Party by sworn testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee (HUAC).[198] However, by 1976 the FBI had acknowledged that it had not obtained any evidence that King himself or the SCLC were actually involved with any communist organizations.[187]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_luther_king

And this look back from David Horowitz:
Don’t believe everything (or anything?) that Dyson writes. King — the King of the Civil Rights Acts was certainly a centrist and even conservative. We on the left — including SNCC and the Panthers and SDS — regarded him with suspicion. We didn’t want integration into the American system which we regarded as the Great Satan. Consequently, King was pushed aside in 1966 and had no following. Under pressure from the left he gave the worst speech of his career — the one about Vietnam — in order to regain his popularity among activists. The later Father John Neuhaus, then a radical, either wrote the speech or had an enormous influence on it. Martin Luther King’s message — America should be a society with a single standard for whites and blacks is anathema to the left and they have spent the last forty years subverting it.

 
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PureX

Well-known member
Rosa Parks is in that photo as well, BTW.

There is some controversy regarding the people around Martin Luther King Jr. at the time, but there's little out there to prove that he was a Communist, and polemics is not necessarily proof, and often isn't.
Accusing MLK of being a communist is just plain stupid.

We have copies of nearly every word he's written and every speech he's ever given on public record, and not one of them promotes communism or communist ideals. I mean it's not like the guy was hiding in the shadows. He was proclaiming his thoughts and ideas from every pulpit and podium in America, loud and clear, for anyone to hear. And none of it ever had anything at all to do with communism. So if Martin Luther King was a communist, was the quietest, most ineffectual communist in all human history. And that certainly is not in keeping with the MLK we all came to know.

But the racists won't be content with him just being dead. They still want to smear him with anything and everything they possibly can. Because that's what they do, and that's the kind of people they have allowed themselves become.
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
Accusing MLK of being a communist is just plain stupid.

We have copies of nearly every word he's written and every speech he's ever given on public record, and not one of them promotes communism or communist ideals. I mean it's not like the guy was hiding in the shadows. He was proclaiming his thoughts and ideas from every pulpit and podium in America, loud and clear, for anyone to hear. And none of it ever had anything at all to do with communism. So if Martin Luther King was a communist, was the quietest, most ineffectual communist in all human history. And that certainly is not in keeping with the MLK we all came to know.

But the racists won't be content with him just being dead. They still want to smear him with anything and everything they possibly can. Because that's what they do, and that's the kind of people they have allowed themselves become.

This time PureX, I don't have any disagreement with you. Mark it down. :)
 

annabenedetti

like marbles on glass
And thanks to frauds like Martin Luther King Jr., babies in the womb count as 0/5 of a person.

fa1zyb.jpg


Of course you do know the award was given in 1966, seven years before abortion was legalized, right?

Planned Parenthood would have been involved in contraception only which although forbidden to Catholics, was not forbidden to Protestants like Martin Luther King Jr.

So where is the fraud, aCW?
 

jgarden

BANNED
Banned
We've come a long way from 3/5 of a person but we've got a long way to go, as recent events show all too clearly.

Article 1, Section 2, Paragraph 3 of the United States Constitution:
Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.
In 2010 Republicans were busy "gerrymandered" state congressional district boundaries so that in some states in 2012, a ballot to elect a Democrat for the House is worth less than 3/5 of a Republican one.

How else do you explain states with a Democratic majority in the popular vote electing Republicans with the majority of the seats?

North Carolina: 2012 House of Representatives
***************************************
Democratic vote 2,218,357 Democratic seats 4
Republican vote 2,137,167 Republican seats 9

Michigan: 2012 House of Representatives
*************************************
Democratic vote 2,327,985 Democratic seats 5
Republican vote 2,086,804 Republican seats 9

Pennsylvania: 2012 House of Representatives
***************************************
Democratic vote 2,793,538 Democratic seats 5
Republican vote 2,710,070 Republican seats 13

Wisconsin: 2012 House of Representatives
***************************************
Democratic vote 1,445,015 Democratic seats 3
Republican vote 1,401,995 Republican seats 5

http://projects.propublica.org/graphics/seats-vs-votes
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
I think there's been a real polarization that's taken place in the wake of the Zimmerman trial, kmo. I've seen conversations here and elsewhere, nationally and locally that have surprised me, and people who've surprised me in the vehemence of their reaction. It tells me we're still a long way off from where we need to be when it comes to the issue of race in this country. Much better than we were in 1963, but there's a history there that still haunts.
Yes, there have been strong reactions on both sides, though I'm not sure if it simply exposed an existing polarization or if it actually moved the sides. You believe that this case shows we have a long way to go. Can you be more specific?
 

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
cant give rep but would

Accusing MLK of being a communist is just plain stupid.

We have copies of nearly every word he's written and every speech he's ever given on public record, and not one of them promotes communism or communist ideals. I mean it's not like the guy was hiding in the shadows. He was proclaiming his thoughts and ideas from every pulpit and podium in America, loud and clear, for anyone to hear. And none of it ever had anything at all to do with communism. So if Martin Luther King was a communist, was the quietest, most ineffectual communist in all human history. And that certainly is not in keeping with the MLK we all came to know.

But the racists won't be content with him just being dead. They still want to smear him with anything and everything they possibly can. Because that's what they do, and that's the kind of people they have allowed themselves become.
 

This Charming Manc

Well-known member
The only Fraud ACW sees is when he looks in the mirror

Of course you do know the award was given in 1966, seven years before abortion was legalized, right?

Planned Parenthood would have been involved in contraception only which although forbidden to Catholics, was not forbidden to Protestants like Martin Luther King Jr.

So where is the fraud, aCW?
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
I think we indeed have a difference of opinion, because Presidents do comment on, and relate themselves to what the citizens of this country are going through and experiencing. It's something that humanizes the office and keeps some connection with what can be a very detached relationship between the executive and the citizens. Here's part of what Obama said which I thought was very well done and no, I'm not a supporter of him or his administration. And yet, I recognize something that's reflective and balanced in his words. Is there any part of the following with which you'd have a problem? Put aside politics for a moment while you read it:

http://www.nationaljournal.com/whit...nt-obama-s-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-20130719
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I mostly like what Obama said there. As you say, there is balance. It is good to understand from where blacks view things. I think a problem is that mostly people are only hearing the "trayvon could have been my son" part. That's the sound bite. And that paints a different picture. And it's still true that Obama and Holder and many others are painting Trayvon's picture as a perfect, unarmed angel that got gunned down. That doesn't help the conversation and it isn't balance.

Here is some text from another Obama speech. It was a commencement address. Obama's Morehouse College speech

I understand there’s a common fraternity creed here at Morehouse: “Excuses are tools of the incompetent used to build bridges to nowhere and monuments of nothingness.” Well, we’ve got no time for excuses. Not because the bitter legacy of slavery and segregation have vanished entirely; they have not. Not because racism and discrimination no longer exist; we know those are still out there. It’s just that in today’s hyperconnected, hypercompetitive world, with millions of young people from China and India and Brazil — many of whom started with a whole lot less than all of you did — all of them entering the global workforce alongside you, nobody is going to give you anything that you have not earned. (Applause.)

Nobody cares how tough your upbringing was. Nobody cares if you suffered some discrimination. And moreover, you have to remember that whatever you’ve gone through, it pales in comparison to the hardships previous generations endured — and they overcame them. And if they overcame them, you can overcome them, too. (Applause.)

You now hail from a lineage and legacy of immeasurably strong men — men who bore tremendous burdens and still laid the stones for the path on which we now walk. You wear the mantle of Frederick Douglass and Booker T. Washington, and Ralph Bunche and Langston Hughes, and George Washington Carver and Ralph Abernathy and Thurgood Marshall, and, yes, Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

These men were many things to many people. And they knew full well the role that racism played in their lives. But when it came to their own accomplishments and sense of purpose, they had no time for excuses.

I think I wish Obama would say more things like that (maybe he has). I am in partial agreement with 99lamb about the culture problem. In the thread about the Oklahoma/Lane murder I posted an article that says the race industry doesn't want to talk about the thug culture and its negative consequences. Here is a quote from it:
Thus, as Barack Obama wonders aloud how America “can bolster and reinforce our African-American boys,” he pals around with rapper Jay-Z, who has become a multi-millionaire rapping about guns, dope, misogyny and gratuitous violence.

http://frontpagemag.com/2013/arnold-ahlert/the-thug-culture-that-killed-chris-lane/

I want to be fair to Obama but part of being President is using it as a pulpit. Obama would have a lot of currency with the black community and I feel like the "Trayvon could have been my son" stuff is getting a lot more run than what you provided and what was in the commencement address.

:idunno:
 

kmoney

New member
Hall of Fame
Also, just a quick thought that is more on topic with this thread...

Last year, or a couple years ago, my pastor played MLK's dream speech at church and it was the first time I had seen the entire thing. It was quite moving.
 
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