The Heroic Gunslinger Fantasy

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
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Many people think that having more guns in public is a good thing, that if more people were armed, those with bad intentions would be less likely to act. In theory, it sounds great. The reality of the situation is something altogether different.

Here is an article:
 Combat Vets Destroy the NRA’s Heroic Gunslinger Fantasy

written by people who routinely use guns as part of their job. It raises some very important points about what happens to people when they are actually in a shoot out. Its very easy to shoot a paper target, but when that target is shooting back, and you know it, everything changes.

A few quotes:

" Retired Army Sargeant Rafael Noboa y Rivera, who led a combat team in Iraq, says that most soldiers only function effectively after they’ve been exposed to fire a number a times. “I think there’s this fantasy world of gunplay in the movies, but it doesn’t really happen that way,” he says. "

 Blair’s trainees run through a number of real-world scenarios—“force on force training” that’s designed to “inoculate” officers against the problems people naturally encounter in high-stress situations. That stress response, says Blair, includes “tunnel vision, audio exclusion and time dilation,” and one would expect people who weren’t trained in these situations to “freeze up or not know what to do, and to have difficulty performing actions correctly.”


 Weekend-long tactical training courses for civilians are growing in popularity. But these courses offer only a shadow of what’s required, says David Chipman, a former agent with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF). Chipman, who spent several years on the agency’s SWAT team, says, “Training for a potentially deadly encounter meant, at a minimum, qualifying four times a year throughout my 25-year career. And this wasn’t just shooting paper—it meant doing extensive tactical exercises. And when I was on the SWAT team we had to undergo monthly tactical training.”

It has long been my contention that people should not carry in public. It creates more problems than it solves. The 2nd amendment says that as part of a well regulated militia... What is a well regulated militia?

Maybe the best from of gun control is that in order to own guns, you must be part of a militia. You must receive monthly training, part of which is an evaluation to determine if it is okay for you to continue to own guns. I don't find it unreasonable to expect people who wish to own an instrument that specifically designed to kill efficiently to be required to maintain training on the proper use of said instrument. The simple fact of the matter is that there are far to many guns in circulation for background checks to be effective. On the other hand, if you are caught with a gun and are not part of a recognized militia, you immediately forefoot all your guns with no appeal.

So what would a militia be? Any branch of the armed services including the National Guard and Coast Guard. I think that it could also include things like nationally recognized shooting clubs like SASS and CMSA. Other clubs might include clubs sponsored by cities or counties. In the even that we find ourselves in a situation where ISIS or some other terrorist organization attempts to assert control of the people of the US, they would quickly discover exactly what a well regulated (trained) militia is capable of.

Will this idea end gun violence and mass shootings? No. Nothing will. But it should make them very much less likely.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
I completely agree but can't say I'm too optimistic. The cowboy mentality's taken over the responsible marksman mindset.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
I completely agree but can't say I'm too optimistic. The cowboy mentality's taken over the responsible marksman mindset.
Yes, it has and that is a big problem. Requiring people to train regularly would help address that mentality.
 

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
The cowboy mentality's taken over the responsible marksman mindset.

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You should've been a cowboy, :reals: Satanist (Eccl 10:2, Jn 10:10). :burnlib:

Should've Been A Cowboy ~ Toby Keith
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Yes, it has and that is a big problem. Requiring people to train regularly would help address that mentality.

Absolutely. But one major sticking point (beyond the obvious mandatory bit) would be the implication that many if not most gun owners have no business owning a firearm in the first place. That's too big a blow to the ego--let alone outrage over "forcing" Americans to do anything--to ever be seriously entertained. The gun lobby would literally riot.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Absolutely. But one major sticking point (beyond the obvious mandatory bit) would be the implication that many if not most gun owners have no business owning a firearm in the first place. That's too big a blow to the ego--let alone outrage over "forcing" Americans to do anything--to ever be seriously entertained. The gun lobby would literally riot.
Gun violence is a problem. The laws that are currently in place do not work. If we, as a society, honestly wish to address the issue the first step is to acknowledge that the problem is not the gun, it is the person holding it. Then we can begin to actually address the problem of people.

And what you say is absolutely true. Mandatory registration with a recognized militia of some sort, regardless of how liberally we define militias, will be the first riot. The second riot will come when a great many people find that they are not qualified to own or use guns.

Like every other major problem that faces this country, it will not be solved without personal sacrifice by the citizens of this country.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
Gun violence is a problem. The laws that are currently in place do not work. If we, as a society, honestly wish to address the issue the first step is to acknowledge that the problem is not the gun, it is the person holding it. Then we can begin to actually address the problem of people.

And what you say is absolutely true. Mandatory registration with a recognized militia of some sort, regardless of how liberally we define militias, will be the first riot. The second riot will come when a great many people find that they are not qualified to own or use guns.

Like every other major problem that faces this country, it will not be solved without personal sacrifice by the citizens of this country.

Proper mandatory training--yearly, or every other year--isn't too much to ask. If the matter's life or death there is no good reason to oppose it. We're looking for basic core competency.
 

Lon

Well-known member
First, it is an amendment right. Second, there is a rise in distrust of government who currently are using force, in courts and often with physical force as well, to enforce their agendas over and against the people they are supposed to serve. They are literally serving minority interest over the interests of the majority and have been for some time. They didn't/don't care what we vote or would vote. They no longer 'represent' the people they are supposed to serve. They represent small entitlement-minded interest groups against the bulk of society.

Because of that, I believe defending one's self is at the top of a lot of citizens' minds.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
Proper mandatory training--yearly, or every other year--isn't too much to ask. If the matter's life or death there is no good reason to oppose it. We're looking for basic core competency.
If somebody is pulling a gun in public, I want that person to have more than just basic core competency. It is interesting to note that, according to the article, the secrete service has never fired a shot in defense of the president. They have training and guns that we can only dream of and they have never fired a shot. Point being, if you are going to draw a gun near me, I want to be sure that you know what you are doing because I don't want to get accidentally shot by a well meaning person. From my link:


 A case in Texas two weeks ago highlights the risks of civilians intervening in chaotic situations. Police say that as two carjackers struggled with the owner of a car at a gas station in northeast Houston, a witness decided to take action into his own hands. He fired several shots, but missed the perpetrators and shot the owner of the car in the head. He then picked up his shell casings and fled the scene. Police are still looking for the shooter.



Something to consider.
 

CabinetMaker

Member of the 10 year club on TOL!!
Hall of Fame
First, it is an amendment right. Second, there is a rise in distrust of government who currently are using force, in courts and often with physical force as well, to enforce their agendas over and against the people they are supposed to serve. They are literally serving minority interest over the interests of the majority and have been for some time. They didn't/don't care what we vote or would vote. They no longer 'represent' the people they are supposed to serve. They represent small entitlement-minded interest groups against the bulk of society.

Because of that, I believe defending one's self is at the top of a lot of citizens' minds.
Lets take a look at that amendment then:
The Second Amendment of the United States Constitution reads: "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

Does "well regulated militia" mean that anybody who wants a gun should own have one, or more? Or does "a well regulated militia" mean something more. How is militia defined?

Militia

A group of private citizens who train for military duty in order to be ready to defend their state or country in times of emergency. A militia is distinct from regular military forces, which are units of professional soldiers maintained both in war and peace by the federal government.


It seems to me that the second amendment places certain responsibilities on gun owners that the government has the authority to enforce.
 

Granite

New member
Hall of Fame
If people are going to insist on being "traditionalists" or defend the Constitution as an unchanging document--untrue, but opposed to the "living breathing document" argument--you have to honestly consider the context in which it was written and the sort of people it was referring to.
 
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