ECT Suggestion to Knight

[tdhiggins]

Would you put a newborn baby that had never sinned into hell? Or into a hellish situation?

I can't believe that anyone can believe in something so absurd. Why do you think that God would do this?

You might have explained this already but I haven't read all this thread sorry, so why do you believe this? Thanks

I believe this because that is what is taught in the Scripture. All men are condemned because of Adam's sin (Romans 5:18). All people are born and conceived with sinful natures (Ps. 51:5). Sinful actions are not what get people in hell. Sinful nature is why people are in hell. Naturally, we are enslaved to our sin, we cannot not sin (as Augustine would say). We commit sins because we are sinful, not the other way around.

As to why, the answer is simple. Sin is evil, regardless of the age. That is why Paul would list disobedience to parents as a sin worthy of hell. Sin is a rebellion against God, and therefore deserves to be punished to the utmost severity. I do not know why Adam represented us before God in the garden. What I do know, is that the Scriptures plainly assert it. And who are we to talk back to God? If He has destined some for mercy and some for wrath, that is His right as Creator and Sovereign.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

The assertion that "sin is not imputed where there is no law" is not the assertion that there is no sin, rather, that it is not imputed where there is no law.

No one will be charged with sinning unless they know that what they are doing is wrong:

"Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin" (Jas.4:17).​

Of course infants do not know right from wrong so they cannot be said to be sinners and neither can it be said that they sin.

But the wages of sin (singular) is (singular) death.

When the context is examined it becomes obvious that the reference is to the sins of people and not the sin of Adam:

"What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord" (Ro.6:21-23).​

All people sin and as a result all people die spiritually when they sin. And since all people die spiritually when they die then that means that all people were once alive spiritually. And the only possible way that can happen is because all people eerge from the womb spiritually alive.

That by itself is a dagger into the heart into the theory of Original Sin.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Why would Jesus use little children as an example of what we have to be like to enter into heaven if little children go to hell?

Of course they would rather believe the fables invented by man rather than the words of the Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[john w]

I said that the Scriptures reveal that people in their flesh and blood bodies cannot enter into the heavenly kingdom (1 Cor.15:5) so the Lord Jesus is not now in heaven in a flesh and blood body.

To that you pointed to Luke 24:39 as your proof that Jesus is now in heaven in a flesh and bone body and not a flesh and blood body.

So according to you the spiritual body of the Lord Jesus, the same kind of body in which Christians will be raised from the dead (1 Cor.15:44), is nothing but a natural body minus the blood!

I did not argue that, satanic accuser, and moron. Don't confuse your stupidity, Forest, due to 1 Cor. 2:14 KJV, and misinterpreting my argument, with any alleged error on my part.


You talk, argue like a Catholic, per the above.

You/Catholics:

"Jesus" is God.

Mary is the mother of Jesus.

So, according to the kid/ Catholics, Mary is the mother of God.

That is this idiot's MO on TOL, as D/others have pointed out-being an idiot, with his alleged "logic."

And now you are saying that before Adam sinned he also had a body which was without blood despite the fact that "the life of the flesh is in the blood" (Lev.17:11).

Correct. Why don't you believe the bible, Forest? You taught us that.

From what you said there it is obvious that you think that a flesh and bone body minus the blood is the same thing as a spiritual body.

I explained brilliantly my argument, Forests w/o needing you to misinterpret it, not understand it. You're just too stupid, kid, to "get it."

Besides that, no one on earth will receive a spiritual body until they are raised from the dead or are caught up to meet the Lord Jesus in the air:

"So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body" (1 Cor.15:42-44).​

Correct.

Sonny boy, you would have done yourself a big favor if you would have just kept quiet!

Well, scarecrow Forest, pull the hay out of your stupid head, and grow a brain, as TOL laughs at you, as you choke on the meat.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I did not argue that, satanic accuser, and moron. Don't confuse your stupidity, Forest, due to 1 Cor. 2:14 KJV, and misinterpreting my argument, with any alleged error on my part.

The body in which Christians will be raised from the dead in is a spiritual body? Do you deny that?

The body in which the Christian will be raised from the dead will be just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body. Do you deny that?

And since you think that the Lord Jesus' body now is a body with the blood removed then according to you Christians will have that kind of body when they are raised from the dead, which Paul describes as a "spiritual" body.

And if anyone even thinks of showing john that he is wrong be prepared to be insulted. Little john has not grown up yet and he knows that he is not supposed to be playing with his mommie's computer.

 

[Derf]

The "inner man" (as opposed to the "outward man") will not die. The Lord Jesus said the following and it is obvious that He is not speaking of the outward man not dying:

"I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" (Jn.11:25).​

Those who believe will never suffer the second death:

"But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death" (Rev.21:8).​

All believers have eternal life right now and that life is in the Son. The Lord Jesus said that those to whom He gives eternal life will never perish (Jn.10:28).

Do you think that they can?

I agree Jesus said believers will never perish, but "perish" is a word that applies to life as we know it. When a person perishes, it means they die or are destroyed. There might be other meanings, but suddenly using the word "perish" instead of "die" doesn't resolve the issue. John 11:25-26 didn't say "perish"--it said "die".

Additionally, in John 11:26, it appears to me that an awkward phrase is used, one that says he will "not die unto forever". It is translated "never die", but the word sequence seems different. (I'm no greek scholar--I'm just looking at the interlinear. There are no doubt nuances I don't understand there.)

Saying that a person never dies because his spirit doesn't die is one possibility. But is it the only possibility? For you, it is, I suppose, because you've already redefined "death" to be something different from what we normally think of as death and "person" as something different from what we normally think of as "person". Jesus didn't do that. He recognized that a person can die and still have eternal life--the "death" is a temporary thing, one that is overcome, not avoided. And now you have to add "inner" and "outer" to "man", so that your concept can be retained. Do we know what "inner man" means, or "outer man"?

Why resort to redefining terms that we recognize in terms that we don't recognize? That puts the gospel out of reach of people without the priest there to explain it to them. Jesus didn't say "inner man" will not die. He said "even though he dies, he will live".

Sounds an awful lot like a resurrection to me! And you can't really be resurrected if you don't die, right?

 

[john w]

The body in which Christians will be raised from the dead in is a spiritual body? Do you deny that?

No, I do not deny it. Quit misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I argued, because you're just too stupid, and employ Catholic logic, idiot, satanic accuser.

The body in which the Christian will be raised from the dead will be just like the Lord Jesus' glorious body. Do you deny that?

No, moron, I do not deny that. I taught you that, and have taught others that, for years, idiot.Quit misinterpreting/misrepresenting what I argued, because you're just too stupid, and employ Catholic logic, idiot, satanic accuser.

And since you think...

Stuff your deceptive "So you think..." humanism gimmick, deceptive ploy, that you spam to everyone, moron. You're just an idiot, that cannot understand the book.

And if anyone even thinks of showing john that he is wrong be prepared to be insulted.

Catch that hypocrisy, TOL audience? The punk cries, "Don't insult!!! wa, wa, wa...!!," out of one side of his big, fat, hypocritical mouth, and, out of the other, he insults me with "little john....not grown up."

Which side of that hypocritical, wimpy face, do you want slapped, punk?

Little john has not grown up yet and he knows that he is not supposed to be playing with his mommie's computer.

If you met, me, punk, you'd be on the floor in seconds, you weasel.


Get off this site, you piece of dung, as most of the TOL membership laughs at you, and your sophistry, deception.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

If you met, me, punk, you'd be on the floor in seconds, you weasel.

Get off this site, you piece of dung, as most of the TOL membership laughs at you, and your sophistry, deception.

With those flabby arms of yours? Give me a break!

You will be lucky to even survive once your mommie finds out you have been playing with her computer!

 

[Jerry Shugart]

I agree Jesus said believers will never perish, but "perish" is a word that applies to life as we know it.

Do you think that it is possible for a Christian to experience the second death?

 

[john w]

With those flabby arms of yours? Give me a break!

You will be lucky to even survive once your mommie finds out you have been playing with her computer!

Flabby arms, you quip? Right, effeminate one. Tell you what, punk: You live in the Texas area? Why don't we meet, and settle who is the tough guy, eh, weasel? Common on, creme puff.

Put up your weasel pic, kid. Go ahead. I thought so.I hear you're a frail, balding punk, with tooth pick "arms." Right, sweetie? Yes....

 

[Derf]

Do you think that it is possible for a Christian to experience the second death?

No. The second death appears to be eternal. A Christian ("little Christ's) can't have both eternal life and eternal death.

Is the second death a "spiritual death" or a "physical death"?

 

[Ask Mr. Religion]

Jerry Shugart's Disqualification from Serious Consideration

Jerry Shugart's Disqualification from Serious Consideration

Get off this site...

Better watch out now, else Jerry will amass his Mormon friends for a beat down:

The Lord Jesus was in heaven as Man before He came down to earth and was born of Mary.

:rotfl:

After such a declaration, why is anyone taking this fellow seriously at all? :idunno:

AMR

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You live in the Texas area?

No, I live in Mexico. But if you survive the punishment which you are going to get from your mommie then look me up.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Better watch out now, else Jerry will amass his Mormon friends for a beat down

The same yesterday, today and forever.

By the way, what does Calvinism teach about what happens to an infant when that infant dies? Do they teach what those in the church at Rome teache? Do they teach what Augustine teaches?

better watch out because Mr. Religion will send his friends from Rome for a beat down!

 

[john w]

No, I live in Mexico. But if you survive the punishment which you are going to get from your mommie then look me up.

With your "domestic partner," Pablo?


Put up that weasel pic, kid.


I thought so.

 

[john w]

Better watch out now, else Jerry will amass his Mormon friends for a beat down:



:rotfl:

After such a declaration, why is anyone taking this fellow seriously at all? :idunno:

AMR

The kid is a moron-even he knows it.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

No. The second death appears to be eternal. A Christian ("little Christ's) can't have both eternal life and eternal death.

So you admit that a Christian has eternal life right here and now! They will not experience the second death so they will never die because their life is described as eternal, eternal in the Son.

 

[Jerry Shugart]

It always happens!

When people cannot answer the message they attack the messenger.

They are so transparent but they think they are fooling everyone!

Little john weenie can give it but he sure can't take it!

 

[Derf]

So you admit that a Christian has eternal life right here and now! They will not experience the second death so they will never die because their life is described as eternal, eternal in the Son.

Are you saying that because a person will not experience the second death, that means they won't experience the first death? I have no idea where to go with that one.

But you didn't answer my question. Am I the only one that has to answer questions in this exchange?

Here it is again: Is the second death a "spiritual death" or a "physical death"?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Are you saying that because a person will not experience the second death, that means they won't experience the first death? I have no idea where to go with that one.

No, that is not what I am saying. I am saying that the inner man will never experience the second death.

In regard to your suggestion that when the Scriptures speak of receiving life that it might now happen right now then please consider the following words of the Lord Jesus:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live" (Jn.5:24-25).​

I can only believe that those who received life received it right then and there. Even if you don't can we not agree to disagree?