Study: Homophobes Might Be Hidden Homosexuals

[lovemeorhateme]

Exactly ... which is why it is so ludicrous when someone claims people choose to be homosexual ... OR heterosexual.

Because one does not act on their homosexuality does not mean they are not homosexual. It's not action but rather sexual attraction and feelings that defines our sexuality.

I fundamentally disagree with this. Experiencing homosexual feelings and attraction does not make someone a homosexual. Choosing to embrace these feelings and act upon them does.

 

[alwight]

If homosexuals claim they were born that way then it's up to them to prove that, not the other way around. The proof isn't there although many seem to think that it is. I've stated this many times on TOL now: I did not choose to experience homosexual feelings, but I did choose to reject them. However, to state that because I didn't choose to have those feelings means that I must have been born with them is a huge leap with no evidence supporting it.

Homosexual testimony about themselves is as convincing as it needs to be imo while my own experience is that I never needed to choose any more than they did, nor have to reject what I find to be my own sexual preference. A bisexual person might be able to choose or reject presumably.
If you consciously rejected a feeling that apparently just happened then imo it was there unasked for and thus innate.

 

[Arthur Brain]

If homosexuals claim they were born that way then it's up to them to prove that, not the other way around. The proof isn't there although many seem to think that it is. I've stated this many times on TOL now: I did not choose to experience homosexual feelings, but I did choose to reject them. However, to state that because I didn't choose to have those feelings means that I must have been born with them is a huge leap with no evidence supporting it.

Why is the burden on them exactly? I can't prove that I was born straight yet from the moment I was old enough to notice girls that was where my attractions lay, through puberty and into adulthood. If a gay person says the same then who am I to doubt it? This seems to be getting into semantics essentially as you admit you didn't choose to experience homosexual attractions so that's not a choice on your part.

 

[zoo22]

Yet nowhere do they define exactly what 'homophobia' is. It's described as 'irrational intolerance' which is a very vague term. So how are the people who did this study defining 'homophobia'?

At TOL, there's no such thing. I thought the TOL brain trust already wrapped that up.

But here is a link for you to the Wright, Adams and Bernat questionnaire. It's a set of questions used in a lot of studies to determine whether subjects are homophobic (excessively "negative, sometimes pathological, reactions to homosexuals by heterosexuals.") The link includes the questionnaire and the scoring key.

Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale.

 

[alwight]

I fundamentally disagree with this. Experiencing homosexual feelings and attraction does not make someone a homosexual. Choosing to embrace these feelings and act upon them does.

You must surely at least agree that your feelings are innate whether or not you choose to act on them?
What would you call someone who has homosexual feelings?

 

[Arthur Brain]

I hope you never have a reason to believe otherwise.

For many others, it is not that simple.

It's simply the way it is GO. I didn't wake up one morning and suddenly decide to start being attracted to women. It was just there, hard wired.

 

[zoo22]

I fundamentally disagree with this. Experiencing homosexual feelings and attraction does not make someone a homosexual. Choosing to embrace these feelings and act upon them does.

Okay, sounds good. This is more a thread about homophobes, not so much to rehash the same old TOL "what is a homosexual" or "homophobic bigotry is/isn't like racism!" rabbit trails. As I'm sure you know, there are already plenty of threads here for that. For example, aCW has many threads and posts about homosexuals. Hope all's well, LMOHM.

 

[zoo22]

Yet nowhere do they define exactly what 'homophobia' is. It's described as 'irrational intolerance' which is a very vague term. So how are the people who did this study defining 'homophobia'?

At TOL, there's no such thing. I thought the TOL brain trust already wrapped that up.

But here is a link for you to the Wright, Adams and Bernat questionnaire. It's a set of questions used in a lot of studies to determine whether subjects are homophobic (excessively "negative, sometimes pathological, reactions to homosexuals by heterosexuals.") The link includes the questionnaire and the scoring key.

Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale.

Here's a link to a paper on the development of the Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale:

Development and Validation of the Homophobia Scale

 

[Quetzal]

Bear in mind dude that this guy thinks we can all "train" ourselves to fall in love with cutlery sets & laminate flooring etc...

:kookoo:

Have you seen that chefs knife? There no way those handles are real!

 

[genuineoriginal]

You must surely at least agree that your feelings are innate whether or not you choose to act on them?

If you are correct, then so-called "homophobia" may be merely an innate response to people whose sexual preferences put them into the "uncanny valley" that triggers aversion.

In other words, so-called "homophobia" is a natural response towards people with unnatural sexual preferences.

 

[zoo22]

Here's a link to PBS's interactive version of the Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale:

Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale

It is not a perfect measure of anti-gay feelings or ideas, and is not a predictor of potential for anti-gay violence. [Though this scale was used in a research project designed to test the theory that homophobia is a manifestation of repressed homosexual desire, the scale is not a measure of homosexuality.]

 

[Arthur Brain]

I hate to be graphic but making my point requires it.
If when you were a virgin, someone got you drunk or druged you and, in the dark, performed a sex act on you, and it felt amazing. Then you later found out the person who did this was the same sex you are. Do you know for a fact that this would not have had an effect on who you are attracted to?

Without wishing to be too graphic in turn, I knew back then that it was only women that got anything down there 'stirring' so to speak. Your hypothetical involves my believing the 'performer' of this act to be a woman in my inebriated state so again, and without wishing to be graphic, that would narrow down the options of what the act would consist of itself...

If I were to have found out at a later date that it was actually a bloke in question then I'd be feeling yeuch over it. Then again your scenario doesn't really work anyway as it's centered on the premise that I believed the other person involved to be a woman from the get go even I were to find out later I was wrong.

 

[Quetzal]

Without wishing to be too graphic in turn, I knew back then that it was only women that got anything down there 'stirring' so to speak. Your hypothetical involves my believing the 'performer' of this act to be a woman in my inebriated state so again, and without wishing to be graphic, that would narrow down the options of what the act would consist of itself...

If I were to have found out at a later date that it was actually a bloke in question then I'd be feeling yeuch over it. Then again your scenario doesn't really work anyway as it's centered on the premise that I believed the other person involved to be a woman from the get go even I were to find out later I was wrong.

Notice how far Delmar had to push that story to try to have it make sense? Adorable. lain:

 

[genuineoriginal]

Here's a link at PBS to an interactive version of the Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale:

Wright, Adams and Bernat homophobia scale

The test is inaccurate.

If you strongly agree with "20. Homosexual behavior should not be against the law," you are rated as being more homophobic than if you strongly disagree.

There may be other problems with it, this is the only one I verified.

 

[zoo22]

The test is inaccurate.

If you strongly agree with "20. Homosexual behavior should not be against the law," you are rated as being more homophobic than if you strongly disagree.

There may be other problems with it, this is the only one I verified.

Okay, thanks for your brain-like-a-whip input. But I'd included a key to scoring in a previous post (link)... Many of the answers are reverse scored.

 

[Delmar]

Without wishing to be too graphic in turn, I knew back then that it was only women that got anything down there 'stirring' so to speak. Your hypothetical involves my believing the 'performer' of this act to be a woman in my inebriated state so again, and without wishing to be graphic, that would narrow down the options of what the act would consist of itself...

If I were to have found out at a later date that it was actually a bloke in question then I'd be feeling yeuch over it. Then again your scenario doesn't really work anyway as it's centered on the premise that I believed the other person involved to be a woman from the get go even I were to find out later I was wrong.

And you know for a fact it would not have messed with your head?

 

[Arthur Brain]

You must surely at least agree that your feelings are innate whether or not you choose to act on them?
What would you call someone who has homosexual feelings?

This is the key point. If I had innate attractions to both men and women I'd no longer identify as heterosexual even if I chose to only act on those impulses with the opposite sex. It's not simply a sexual act itself that defines orientation.

 

[Arthur Brain]

And you know for a fact it would not have messed with your head?

I've just said I'd have felt 'yeuchh' to find out that who I thought was performing this act turned out to be a man instead of a woman.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Notice how far Delmar had to push that story to try to have it make sense? Adorable. lain:

Yeh, it doesn't work. If the hypothetical has to be at the extreme where I'm essentially 'out of it' then I'm not really seeing the value in the argument.

 

[alwight]

If you are correct, then so-called "homophobia" may be merely an innate response to people whose sexual preferences put them into the "uncanny valley" that triggers aversion.

In other words, so-called "homophobia" is a natural response towards people with unnatural sexual preferences.

Yes, I actually tend to agree because the idea of me having homosexual sex is something I find instinctively and innately repulsive, I can't help it, it's innate homophobia perhaps.
However homophobia is a term that I think should be reserved for people who react instinctively without any empathy or rational and reasoned thinking against homosexuals.
So yes I am probably innately homophobic, but no I am not homophobic in practice because I can empathise, reason and think.

Can we agree then that such feelings are innate but what we then call people who do or don't act on them is perhaps a moot point?