Standing Up To Jehovah's Witnesses

WeberHome

New member
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Surely you're not saying these individuals will be endowed with the "heart
and soul" of a god, are you?

Humanity has had the heart and soul of a god practically since the very
beginning.

†. Gen 3:22 . . And Jehovah God went on to say: Here the man has become
like one of us in knowing good and bad

†. Gen 82:6 . . I myself have said: You are gods

†. John 10:34-36 . . Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law; "I
said: You are gods."

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glorydaz

Well-known member
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Humanity has had the heart and soul of a god practically since the very
beginning.

†. Gen 3:22 . . And Jehovah God went on to say: Here the man has become
like one of us in knowing good and bad

†. Gen 82:6 . . I myself have said: You are gods

†. John 10:34-36 . . Jesus answered them: Is it not written in your law; "I
said: You are gods."

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Your first quote says LIKE God as to knowing good and evil.

The other two aren't saying "You are gods" because those verses are speaking of the JUDGES God used to speak for Him.
 

WeberHome

New member
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Though humanity has had the heart and soul of a god practically since the
very beginning; its nature is inferior to the nature of the heart and soul of a
god that's in humanity's creator. But humanity isn't stuck. According to 2Pet
1:2-3, it's possible to obtain the nature of the heart and soul of a god that's
in humanity's creator.

At John 4:24, Christ said that God is spirit, and His worshipers must worship
in spirit; viz: you could say: must worship Him in heart and soul; for
example:

†. Mark 12:30-31. .You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and
with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.

Well, people with the heart and soul of a god can't possibly comply with that
commandment in its entirety. It's virtually a clash of the Titans-- the heart
and soul of a god that's in humanity's creator versus the heart and soul of a
god that's in humanity.

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KingdomRose

New member
:cigar:


Breaking-down a witness is a very easy thing to do.

You only have to learn their baker's dozen polemics, and that is all that they have.

Anything outside of their training results in them calling you names as they run away.....seen it a million times...

No you haven't. I've been interacting with JWs all over the world for 40 years and I've never seen anything near what you describe. JWs don't do that. We are taught to be respectful, and if someone doesn't want to listen to our message we leave and go to the next door. (Matthew 10:14) Most of us are thoroughly familiar with the Bible, and not just "our" Bible......any Bible. We used the King James for many years before the NWT was even available. We will reason with anyone who wants to listen. I'm sure you just interrupted the JWs at your door and wouldn't let them finish a thought. Be honest and admit that you just don't want to listen to them.

You and "Glorydaz" are just nasty people. You obviously haven't had a respectful discussion with any JW.
 

WeberHome

New member
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You and "Glorydaz" are just nasty people

I've encountered name-calling behavior not only among Jehovah's
Witnesses, but also among Rome's followers who perceive that any and all
opposition to Rome's beliefs and practices is motivated by hatred for
Catholics. That's just rabid fanaticism, through and through.


We are taught to be respectful

I fail to see the respect in calling someone a name like "nasty people" but
then maybe the Watch Tower Society defines respect in somewhat different
terms than most everybody else.


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WeberHome

New member
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"You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul,
and with all your mind, and with all your strength." (Mark 12:30-31)

That commandment was easy for Christ because he had the nature of God
besides the nature of a human being.

†. John 5:26 . . For just as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted
also to the Son to have life in himself.

†. Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells
bodily.

Some years ago, it occurred to me that it would be a lots easier to obey
God's commandments if I were like Him instead of like me. In other words:
if only it were as natural for me to obey as it is natural for me to resist.

Well; you can imagine my excitement upon discovering that God, by a
supernatural method that I've yet to quite understand, is able to supplant
people's human nature with His own divine nature.

†. 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature.

The mysterious supernatural method in question is called a circumcision.

†. Col 2:11 . . By relationship with him you were also circumcised with a
circumcision performed without hands by the stripping off the body of the
flesh, by the circumcision that belongs to the Christ

Unfortunately, the surgical procedure described in that passage is available
only to people "by relationship" with him

†. 1John 2:27 . . As for you, the anointing that you received from him
remains in you, and you do not need anyone to be teaching you; but, as the
anointing from him is teaching you about all things, and is true and is no lie,
and just as it has taught you, remain in union with him.

John Q and Jane Doe Jehovah's Witnesses do not have the anointing, nor do
they ever expect to obtain it. Ergo: they will never, ever, be in union with
him. Consequently they will never, ever, be partakers of the divine nature
spoken of in 2Pet 1:3-4, which means of course that they will always, and
forever, be stuck with human nature.

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Apple7

New member
No you haven't. I've been interacting with JWs all over the world for 40 years and I've never seen anything near what you describe. JWs don't do that. We are taught to be respectful, and if someone doesn't want to listen to our message we leave and go to the next door. (Matthew 10:14) Most of us are thoroughly familiar with the Bible, and not just "our" Bible......any Bible. We used the King James for many years before the NWT was even available. We will reason with anyone who wants to listen. I'm sure you just interrupted the JWs at your door and wouldn't let them finish a thought. Be honest and admit that you just don't want to listen to them.

You and "Glorydaz" are just nasty people. You obviously haven't had a respectful discussion with any JW.


Why would you use the KJV, which was rendered by Trinitarians....when you blatantly deny The Trinity?!


What an ignorant group of people you belong to..
.
 

RBBI

New member
Admittedly I only read the opening post, but the thread title caught my attention. One of the best times of fellowship I ever had was with a JW that came to my door. I laid the ground rules out to begin with (I know you're trying to convert me but I'll be trying to convert you, as long as you're ok with that we can continue), and she agreed and came once a week for 4 or 5 months. We became friendly, but she ended up with questions every week to go back and ask the elders. Finally an elder came with her. He couldn't answer my points either, and he never came back. Finally they forbid her to come to my house, but we still talked if we ran into one another, as I don't consider her "the enemy", just one of the lost sheep of Israel. Peace
 

Apple7

New member
Admittedly I only read the opening post, but the thread title caught my attention. One of the best times of fellowship I ever had was with a JW that came to my door. I laid the ground rules out to begin with (I know you're trying to convert me but I'll be trying to convert you, as long as you're ok with that we can continue), and she agreed and came once a week for 4 or 5 months. We became friendly, but she ended up with questions every week to go back and ask the elders. Finally an elder came with her. He couldn't answer my points either, and he never came back. Finally they forbid her to come to my house, but we still talked if we ran into one another, as I don't consider her "the enemy", just one of the lost sheep of Israel. Peace


Since our battle is not with flesh and blood...it is with the demons....then we should have issue with our enemy demon(s) that possess JW's.

JW's are a safe-house for demons.
 

glorydaz

Well-known member
Apple with all due respect your M.O is quite obvious. I could write a 20 page thesis thoroughly debunking the Trinity which is a pagan teaching that has its roots in ancient Babylonian mysticism and paganism. But i think my time would be better spent elsewhere.

In addition what you choose to believe is obviously your prerogative, and its quite obvious that you've chosen to ignore Jesus own words in the Bible in deference for a doctrine that was no where to be found in early Christianity, much less a word that is nowhere to be found in ANY Bible and yet is so fundamental a teaching to many of Christendoms religions.

Jesus said at Matthew 7:6 “Do not give what is holy to dogs, neither throw YOUR pearls before swine.." Not that I'm calling you a swine or a dog of course but from my point of view there's no intelligible discussion/debate/reasoning that that i can glean from this discussion with you. So il leave it there. Thanks.

No you couldn't...but you could write 20 pages of bunk. I've no doubt many could.
 

RBBI

New member
Since our battle is not with flesh and blood...it is with the demons....then we should have issue with our enemy demon(s) that possess JW's.

JW's are a safe-house for demons.

And you think others aren't? All sins are common to man. All have been time share condos for evil spirits at some point in their life; that's what deliverance is for.

As for fellowshipping with those we don't agree with, if the LORD leads you to do it, it's like going into a foreign land, learning their "language", then translating the counterfeits (Satan can create nothing, only mimic something of HaShem) they spew out, out of the kingdom of darkness (their carnal minds) and into the kingdom of light (mind of Christ Yeshua).

If the LORD has not sent you into that "land", then you have been led away of your own lusts and ensnared therein because of it. Blessings...
 

Apple7

New member
And you think others aren't? All sins are common to man. All have been time share condos for evil spirits at some point in their life; that's what deliverance is for.

As for fellowshipping with those we don't agree with, if the LORD leads you to do it, it's like going into a foreign land, learning their "language", then translating the counterfeits (Satan can create nothing, only mimic something of HaShem) they spew out, out of the kingdom of darkness (their carnal minds) and into the kingdom of light (mind of Christ Yeshua).

If the LORD has not sent you into that "land", then you have been led away of your own lusts and ensnared therein because of it. Blessings...


For our JW deniers...


1 John 4.1 - 3

Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are from God; for many false prophets have gone forth into the world. By this know the Spirit of God: every spirit which worships that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is from God. And every spirit which does not worship that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh, is not from God; and this is the antichrist which you heard is coming, and now is already in the world.


The spirit residing in a JW is not from God.
 

WeberHome

New member
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I attended Catholic catechism as a youth roughly 60 years ago in the decade
of the 1950's. My siblings and I were not given the full blown catechism to
study. We were given little handbooks that contained just enough
information to get us past First Holy Communion and Confirmation.

As a result, the difference between immortality and eternal life was never
explained because that was information we didn't need to know in order to
pass First Holy Communion and Confirmation. Maybe things are different
now: I wouldn't know, nor do I care to know.

Immortality always refers to a supernatural body that's impervious to aging,
death, and putrefaction. As such, immortality is something that Christ's
believing followers expect to obtain sometime in the future rather than the
present.

†. Rom 8:23-25 . .We ourselves, who have the first fruits of the Spirit, groan
inwardly as we wait eagerly for our adoption as sons, the redemption of our
bodies. For in this hope we were saved. But hope that is seen is no hope at
all. Who hopes for what he already has? But if we hope for what we do not
yet have, we wait for it patiently.

The New Testament Greek word for "hope" in that passage is elpis (el pece')
which means to anticipate (usually with pleasure); and to expect with
confidence. Note the elements of anticipation, expectation, and confidence.

In other words: elpis hope isn't a cross-your-fingers kind of hope. It's a kind
of hope that looks forward to something as a sure thing,.

So then, people crossing their fingers, while in the backs of their minds
dreading the worst; do not have elpis hope. They simply have a longing for
something better, but with absolutely no assurance whatsoever of obtaining it.

Eternal life, on the other hand; has nothing to do with the nature of a
supernatural body, but rather, the psychological nature of a divine being.

I am a human being; hence I have the psychological nature of a human
being. God is a divine being, hence He has the psychological nature of a
divine being.

Christ had the psychological nature of a divine being before he got here.

†. John 5:26 . . Just as the Father has life in Himself, even so He gave to the
Son also to have life in Himself

†. 1 John 1:2 . .The life appeared; we have seen it and testify to it, and we
proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and has appeared
to us.

Clearly then; eternal life isn't physical because before he came to the earth,
Christ was spirit as per John 1:1-3.

The psychological nature of human life was created as per the book of
Genesis. But the psychological nature of eternal life wasn't created; it
couldn't be created because eternal life is the life of God; the divine being who
never had a beginning; viz: God always was, God always is, and God always
will be.

So then, the possession of eternal life doesn't make one a divine being, nor
does it make one an eternal being. It only equips them with the
psychological nature of God; which is pretty amazing itself.

Is what I'm saying true? Well; Peter seemed to think so.

†. 2Pet 1:3-4 . . His divine power has granted to us everything pertaining to
life and godliness, through the true knowledge of Him who called us by His
own glory and excellence. For by these He has granted to us His precious
and magnificent promises, in order that by them you might become
partakers of the divine nature.

I don't know if the nuns who taught my catechism classes knew any and/or
all of the stuff that I've composed here because they never mentioned it. But
even if they had, I was doubtless too young at the time to digest it.

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WeberHome

New member
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Watch the verb "became" in this next verse because it's very important.

†. 1Cor 15:45 . . It is even so written: "The first man Adam became a living
soul." The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.

When did Adam become a living soul? Answer: at his resurrection? No, at his
birth. When did the last Adam become a life-giving spirit? Answer: at his
resurrection? No, at his birth too.

Some folks object to the above answer by saying that the portion of
1Corinthians where 15:45 is located is all about resurrection rather than
birth. Oh? Then what's Adam's origin doing in there instead of his
resurrection?

The point is: Watchtower theology holds that it's impossible for someone to
exist as a spirit being and as a human being simultaneously; and that's why
they say that the Word of John 1:1-4 had to give up its existence as a spirit
being in order to become the human being of John 1:14. Well; that's what
the Society says about Jesus Christ; but it's not what the Bible says.

According to 1John 1:1-2 the kind of life that's in the Word of John 1:1-4 is
everlasting life; which is a kind of life that's impervious to death; and that's
why it's impossible for the Word to relinquish its existence in order to
become a human being.

†. John 1:1-4 . . In the beginning the Word was, and the Word was with
God, and the Word was a god. This one was in the beginning with God. All
things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one
thing came into existence. What has come into existence by means of him
was life.

In other words: Adam came into human existence with life; but not by the
power of his own life. In contrast, the Word came into human existence by
the power of his own life; viz: Adam was never even a life-giving man let
alone a life-giving spirit; but the Word is both.

†. John 5:26 . . For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted
also to the Son to have life in himself.

Well; if the life that's in the Father is eternal life, then the life that's in His
son is eternal life too. And if the kind of life that's in God is a life-giving kind
of life, then the life that's in His son is a life-giving kind of life too.

The Watch Tower Society insists that human life is entirely organic. Well;
Christ wasn't entirely organic. Within him was not just human life; but also
the life of God.

†. Col 2:9 . . It is in him that all the fullness of the divine quality dwells
bodily.

Surely at least a portion of the divine quality is the power to both give and
to sustain all manner of life. So even had Christ not been a life-giving spirit,
he was at the very least a life-giving man.

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KingdomRose

New member
Why would you use the KJV, which was rendered by Trinitarians....when you blatantly deny The Trinity?!


What an ignorant group of people you belong to..
.

You betray YOUR ignorance. The KJV does not teach the Trinity, and I have said many times that we can prove the spuriousness of the trinity doctrine using any version.

It's interesting that you admit that the KJV was translated by trinitarians, because that is exactly why many scriptures are translated the way they are---with bias. When we go back and analyse the scriptures, anyone can determine what error there must be in actually finding the Trinity anywhere in the Scriptures! But if you don't want to see the truth, you'll never admit it.

:dizzy:
 

KingdomRose

New member
Admittedly I only read the opening post, but the thread title caught my attention. One of the best times of fellowship I ever had was with a JW that came to my door. I laid the ground rules out to begin with (I know you're trying to convert me but I'll be trying to convert you, as long as you're ok with that we can continue), and she agreed and came once a week for 4 or 5 months. We became friendly, but she ended up with questions every week to go back and ask the elders. Finally an elder came with her. He couldn't answer my points either, and he never came back. Finally they forbid her to come to my house, but we still talked if we ran into one another, as I don't consider her "the enemy", just one of the lost sheep of Israel. Peace

You seem to be a decent sort....I'm disappointed that you report in the manner you do, however. No one would be forbidden to return to you unless you (1) were an ex-JW or (2) you asked them not to come back. So it is not true that that girl was told not to go back to you. Someone is stretching the truth there.

Also, I do not think for a minute that the elder "couldn't answer my points either." You either asked him something that nobody on Earth could answer (like why were the dinosaurs created?) or....you would not listen to his answers and continued asking the same questions. This is done on these forums routinely. I end up saying, "I'm done arguing with you!" and the person says, "Oh, you can't answer my question!"

I'm sure the elder answered you. You just didn't accept his answers, and don't have the honesty to just admit that.

:think:
 

KingdomRose

New member
No you couldn't...but you could write 20 pages of bunk. I've no doubt many could.

It is not difficult to debunk the trinity. Even the RCC has said that there isn't anything solid in Scripture that teaches a trinity. (In the New Catholic Encyclopedia.) There are many scholarly works out there that show why the doctrine cannot be true.

It is your choice to ignore all of the information that explains why the trinity doctrine is false. It is your prerogative to ignore scriptures that show clearly that Jesus is not equal to God, the Father. But why do you insult people who listen to Jesus' own words? Your'e not very nice.
 

Apple7

New member
You betray YOUR ignorance. The KJV does not teach the Trinity, and I have said many times that we can prove the spuriousness of the trinity doctrine using any version.

All English renderings teach The Trinity...even your NWT could not erase this fact.


It's interesting that you admit that the KJV was translated by trinitarians, because that is exactly why many scriptures are translated the way they are---with bias.

What's even more interesting is that YOU use it knowing this fact.



When we go back and analyse the scriptures, anyone can determine what error there must be in actually finding the Trinity anywhere in the Scriptures! But if you don't want to see the truth, you'll never admit it.


We have already amply exposed your ignorance of the original languages.
 
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