ECT Speaking in tongues

[TweetyBird]

No, but it is communion with God.

Praying in tongues is not communion with God. Jesus taught us how to pray. It was not in tongues. Paul showed us more than anyone else in the NT what prayer consists of by example. It was not in tongues.

 

[TweetyBird]

There's no need to make excuses for what the bible says I can have, and I'm not going to run it by you for your worthless rejection of it.

Make an argument from scripture, or clear off.

That's the excuse I always here from Pentes who refuse to prove their claims. Scripture states that I should test the spirits of the thing. Time to get busy so we can weigh your tongues with Scripture.

 

[andyc]

When someone comes to a conclusion that is not based on Scripture, that is conjecture and opinion. That's all you got.

1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal.

Paul spoke in the tongues of men every day. It is not miraculous. People speak in the tongues of men all the time without love, but if they spoke in angelic tongues, that is miraculous, and yet even though it's miraculous it would accomplish nothing if it wasn't done in love.

And so the obvious conclusion is, Paul spoke in angelic heavenly tongue.....in love.

I know you hate this tweety...but I don't care. Doubt and do without, sunshine.

There is nothing in the whole of the Bible that speaks of "unknown heavenly languages".

Apart from the one you're trying to reason out of.

You keep piling up the conjecture. Where is a "spiritual language" referred in to the Bible?

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Paul's spirit here is praying in a language that his mind doesn't understand. Therefore it is a spiritual language. But go and think about this.

That sounds real feely touchy, but because it's not the Bible, I reject it.

Go and read a commentary of your choice regarding Rom 8:26.

 

[lifeisgood]

Mark
Chapter 5
6 But when he saw Jesus afar off,
he ran and worshipped him,
7 And cried with a loud voice,
and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus,
thou Son of the most high God?
I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man,
thou unclean spirit.
9 And he asked him, What is thy name?
And he answered, saying, My name is Legion:
for we are many.
10 And he besought him much that he would
not send them away out of the country.

Were you included?

 

[lifeisgood]

No grace from you. Yes that is true.

Now, I have no grace toward you? Amazing!

 

[TweetyBird]

Meds do not heal. That is one of the reasons a person, e.g., who has high blood pressure, will have to take that medicine until the day he/she dies. If a med healed, then doctors would lose their jobs and hospitals would close.

Do you realize a doctor can never say to a cancer patient, e.g., 'you are healed'?
A doctor can only say to a cancer patient, 'you're in remission'.

That is what my doctor told me.

Medicine, if is intended to work, does not need faith for them to work. If meds fail, it's because one's system is refusing them. If they work, it's because one's system accepts the cure. It's not faith, by any stretch. Have you not ever taken an antibiotic? Doctors will never be out of a job because people will always be getting sick and need medical care

 

[andyc]

That's the excuse I always here from Pentes who refuse to prove their claims. Scripture states that I should test the spirits of the thing. Time to get busy so we can weigh your tongues with Scripture.

So you want to judge something that you already reject, and tell me I'm making excuses for not giving you the privilege?

And yet Paul said...."For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God".

And so I am an anyone, and if I speak in a tongue, I don't speak to tweety, do I?

Paul goes on to say, for no one understands him, but tweety wants to understand me.

Go figure.

 

[lifeisgood]

I do not pray for myself.

Jesus takes care of all that for me.

:think:

 

[Danoh]

1 Corinthians 13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal....

Andyc...where is that passage's attitude of love towards those on here who consistently show little if any towards you in their own duplicity?

Surely, you can "prove" that aspect of that passage.

Though, in fairness; we all can - MADs or otherwise...

That we do not when push comes to shove and the flesh says "time for one sideness" just shows each our hypocrisy.

1 Corinthians 11:17 Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse. 11:18 For first of all, when ye come together in the church, I hear that there be divisions among you; and I partly believe it. 11:19 For there must be also heresies among you, that they which are approved may be made manifest among you.

 

[lifeisgood]

No, I never stated or implied that if it doesn't happen to me I won't believe it. I said, if God chooses to give the gift of tongues, as the Spirit wills, then I would love to see it. adding for clarification - to the the entire body of Christ, according to the NT testimony and example.

Yes, you, TweetyBird, would have to have it happen to you; otherwise, if you 'saw' it happening to someone else, you would not accept it because even though you 'saw' it, there is no way that you could prove it being from God. Because how could you say that what you 'saw' was really true or not, when it didn't happen to you, even though you 'saw' it?

 

[TweetyBird]

It is not miraculous. People speak in the tongues of men all the time without love, but if they spoke in angelic tongues, that is miraculous, and yet even though it's miraculous it would accomplish nothing if it wasn't done in love.

You are confused. Speaking in tongues was a miraculous sign from God, it was unexpected, unplanned for, a compete surprise, not prayed for, not believed for, not spoken of before the Spirit gave the disciples utterance. It was ... wait for it ... a miracle.

And so the obvious conclusion is, Paul spoke in angelic heavenly tongue.....in love.

If there was an angelic tongue and man could speak it, it would no longer be an angelic tongue aka for angels only ... get it?

I know you hate this tweaty...but I don't care. Doubt and do without, sunshine.

It's tweety, not tweaty ... :rotfl:

Whatever you are selling is as useless as a cup of water in the ocean. Did I mention that I spoke in tongues for many years? well, at least the Pentecostal version of it. It was cool - but that's what happens when you get all into the feely touchiness of religious practices that tell you how close you can get to God. NOT.

Apart from the one you're trying to reason out of.

You have provided zero Scripture for "heavenly languages".

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

Paul's spirit here is praying in a language that his mind doesn't understand. Therefore it is a spiritual language. But go and think about this.

The standard Pente version of course. Paul never said He prayed in tongues. Read the text a little more closely.

Go and read a commentary of your choice regarding Rom 8:26.

I just read the clear plain text. That verse is not difficult and it's not fraught with new age thought. It says NOTHING about our spirit communicating with the Holy Spirit. Not one word.

 

[lifeisgood]

God has been miraculously healing people since Genesis. He has never stopped doing that.

I believe that; someone else in here said if one of the gifts of the Spirit is gone then they are all gone.

I believe that all the gifts of the Spirit are also for this dispensation.
Unless I missed something and we no longer are in the dispensation of grace.

 

[lifeisgood]

Praying in tongues is not communion with God. Jesus taught us how to pray. It was not in tongues. Paul showed us more than anyone else in the NT what prayer consists of by example. It was not in tongues.

Paul said: "I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all" --- and no way was Paul talking more than them all in the church, because in the next verse he says that 'in the church' he does not speak in tongues so that he can instruct others.

1Co 14:2 For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.

1Co 14:4 He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself;

1 Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:

However, not in the church.

 

[Danoh]

Depends on the cup of water, TB; it is VERY useful if NOT a cup of salt water :chuckle:

 

[lifeisgood]

Medicine, if is intended to work, does not need faith for them to work. If meds fail, it's because one's system is refusing them. If they work, it's because one's system accepts the cure. It's not faith, by any stretch. Have you not ever taken an antibiotic?

Never entered in my mind that I need faith for a medicine to heal.
A medicine does not heal.
God heals.

Doctors will never be out of a job because people will always be getting sick and need medical care

I was being sarcastic.

 

[andyc]

You are confused. Speaking in tongues was a miraculous sign from God, it was unexpected, unplanned for, a compete surprise, not prayed for, not believed for, not spoken of before the Spirit gave the disciples utterance. It was ... wait for it ... a miracle.

Yeah that's how I received it, while walking across a field. Awesome.

If there was an angelic tongue and man could speak it, it would no longer be an angelic tongue aka for angels only ... get it?

No, because no man could understand it. :doh:

It's tweety, not tweaty ... :rotfl:

Yeah I altered it, but you were a bit too quick. Enjoy the humor.

Whatever you are selling is as useless as a cup of water in the ocean. Did I mention that I spoke in tongues for many years?

No you didn't. Are you telling me you spoke in a useless language for many years?
How dumb is that?

well, at least the Pentecostal version of it. It was cool - but that's what happens when you get all into the feely touchiness of religious practices that tell you how close you can get to God. NOT.

Sounds like you were messed up bigtime. Nothing changes, huh?

You have provided zero Scripture for "heavenly languages".


The standard Pente version of course. Paul never said He prayed in tongues. Read the text a little more closely.

1 Corinthians 14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful.

1 Corinthians 14:15 What is the conclusion then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will also pray with the understanding.

I just read the clear plain text. That verse is not difficult and it's not fraught with new age thought. It says NOTHING about our spirit communicating with the Holy Spirit. Not one word.

It is man's spirit communicating with God's spirit.

 

[Danoh]

Romans 8:26 - In this way also The Spirit helps our weakness. We do not know what we should pray for, whenever it is necessary, but that Spirit prays in our place with groaning which is unspoken.

That was then.

But this side of that which is perfect we have access to knowing what to pray for as we ought.

The Apostle Paul's prayers...our pattern of what to pray for as we ought.

One more aspect of God's having fully revealed the Mystery of His will, the study of which resulted in Mid-Acts Dispensationalism and what it is meant to allow - the clear understanding of - how prayer works during this Mystery Age - as to what and how to pray for what, as we ought...

Ephesians 5:17 Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.

 

[TweetyBird]

So you want to judge something that you already reject, and tell me I'm making excuses for not giving you the privilege?

You claim to speak in tongues. It was a public thing so all could see the works of God.

And yet Paul said...."For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God".

And so I am an anyone, and if I speak in a tongue, I don't speak to tweety, do I?

You keep hacking that verse off from the entire chapter. Paul is teaching on why, in the assembly everything spoke must be understood by everyone. If one is speaking in tongues they are to BE SILENT aka BE QUIET aka DO NOT SPEAK OUTLOUD and sit down. It was NOT a good thing to keep speaking to one's self and to God in language that neither you or that anyone else could understand. It was as if one is speaking to the air and other would think you are a barbarian. ALL things must be done orderly - not a bunch of people muttering under their breaths and think that is good or holy. You are missing the critical point of chapt 14. It is NOT about YOU. It is about the assembly and glorifying God within it.

Paul goes on to say, for no one understands him, but tweety wants to understand me.

Go figure.

If you want to keep mumbling sounds and call it secret prayer, go for it, but it's not in the Bible. Jesus said, told us, taught us how to pray. Your argument is with Him.

Matt 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

 

[Interplanner]

Paul is not speaking favorably about the isolated case of 'tongues' at Corinth, which resembled ecstatic utterances at a nearby cult. Not a good sign. He works backward from it to near dismissal and reminds them that the real thing was an additional sign to Jews that the messianic age and gospel was truly here and to help in it. He quotes Isaiah on that.

 

[andyc]

You claim to speak in tongues. It was a public thing so all could see the works of God.

The "all" accepted the gift.

You keep hacking that verse off from the entire chapter. Paul is teaching on why, in the assembly everything spoke must be understood by everyone. If one is speaking in tongues they are to BE SILENT aka BE QUIET aka DO NOT SPEAK OUTLOUD and sit down. It was NOT a good thing to keep speaking to one's self and to God in language that neither you or that anyone else could understand. It was as if one is speaking to the air and other would think you are a barbarian. ALL things must be done orderly - not a bunch of people muttering under their breaths and think that is good or holy. You are missing the critical point of chapt 14. It is NOT about YOU. It is about the assembly and glorifying God within it.

The fact is, that if anyone spoke in a tongue in an assembly, no one understood the tongue, which is why it must be done in an orderly fashion, superseded by an interpretation. However, the fact remains, no one understands the tongue. Deal with it.

If you want to keep mumbling sounds and call it secret prayer, go for it, but it's not in the Bible. Jesus said, told us, taught us how to pray. Your argument is with Him.

I will pray with the Spirit, and I will pray with the understanding. No problem with me.

Matt 6
5 And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. 6 But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. 7 But when ye pray, use not vain repetitions, as the heathen do: for they think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. 8 Be not ye therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him.

Yeah...when you know what you want, ask for it.