If not, why not?
If so, in what way(s) should the US support Israel?
If so, in what way(s) should the US support Israel?
Should the US government support Israel?
- Thread starter Nathon Detroit
- Start date
bibliophile1954
OVER 500 post club
Ok, I'm pretty sure that this is scriptural, but I don't know the exact reference. Doesn't it say somewhere in the Bible that God will be kind to those that support His people, (which I take to mean Israel), & He will curse those who aren't? I'm just wondering-anyone want to help me out here?
in His love,
bib
in His love,
bib
You're right, Bib. I just don't know where it is. But, I think we should support Israel regardless of that. They are a small country surrounded by people that hate them. I don't know how far this country should go to support them. Personally, I think that if the Arab countries decide to fight Israel, that we ought to back them with our military.
bibliophile1954
OVER 500 post club
We do have to give a whole bunch of credit to Israel! I remember the 6-Day war, when that happened. Here was this little country, standing against virtually the entire Arab world, AND THEY STOOD THEIR GROUND! If this wasn't an intervention, by God, I don't know what is! I feel that it is very obvious that God is INDEED watching over Israel!
in His love,
bib
I think that we should support Israel as much as any other country. However, we should not support Israel in everything that she does. Lend support to her to defend from invaders, yes. Oppressing Palestinians, killing innocent people (regardles of Palestine's hatred), no.
Another field should be in the poll: "to an extent"
Another field should be in the poll: "to an extent"
bibliophile1954
OVER 500 post club
Actually, I DID start a thread on the troubles in Israel-CURRENT EVENTS FORUM-"PEACE IN ISRAEL? YEAH RIGHT!"
in His love,
bib
Well... any answer of "yes" would also be associated with some "extent". Therefore you can debate the "extent" here!
This is one reason I don't get into conversations about Israel a lot. No matter, who I'm talking to, they start mentioning the poor Palestinians and how Israel's oppressed them. How long have the Palestinians been sending suicide bombers into crowded areas in Israel? They weren't even interested in having their own country until Israel was founded (present era).
What are the Israelis supposed to do? Are they supposed to just sit there when Palestinians are coming into the malls, busses, and restaurants to kill the children of Israel? I think the Israelis took it as long as they could. People always talk about the innocent Palestinians that are killed by the "evil" Israelis. But, what about the Israeli children that are killed when some idiot who thinks he's going to get to Paradise and have however many virgins it is goes onto a bus and blows himself and the passengers to kingdom come? Isn't that considered murdering innocents? How about when a Palestinian straps a bomb to his body and walks into a nightclub and blows up himself and others? Of course, most people who talk to me about it think that the Palestinians have been forced into the bombing by the oppressing Israelis. Well, the United States has sent money to the Palestinians as well as to Israel. Why are the Palestinians not using that money to get out of the squalor they live in? It's because their leaders want the world to see them living as they do so they will have sympathy!
Do the Palestinians have my sympathy? To an extent. But, they voted to keep Arafat in office even though he's done nothing to bring a real peace to the region.
The people in this country need to get their heads out of the sand and look at the whole thing, not just the story we're getting spoon-fed from the media. I like how Michael Savage (radio talk show host) said it, "You need to wake up and quit being part of the ostrich brigade!"
I, for one, refuse to be part of the ostrich brigade!
Flipper
New member
Nori:
I rather like Michael Savage too. He's completely replaced Bob E in my affections for "most outspoken right wing radio host".
If you like Savage, you might also wish to check out Robbie Noel on the American Freedom Network. I think you can get his stuff via free streaming audio, as I don't think you're in the AFN reception area.
You do need to understand that the Israelis do sometimes go out of their way to provoke the Palestinians, however. Neither side comes out covered in glory on the balance sheet. The Israelis can afford to be more surgical about their reprisals because they have the technology and the training, but don't go mistaking that for moral superiority.
I rather like Michael Savage too. He's completely replaced Bob E in my affections for "most outspoken right wing radio host".
If you like Savage, you might also wish to check out Robbie Noel on the American Freedom Network. I think you can get his stuff via free streaming audio, as I don't think you're in the AFN reception area.
You do need to understand that the Israelis do sometimes go out of their way to provoke the Palestinians, however. Neither side comes out covered in glory on the balance sheet. The Israelis can afford to be more surgical about their reprisals because they have the technology and the training, but don't go mistaking that for moral superiority.
Thanks for the heads up!
I've been listening to Savage for about a year, now. And, I love him! He says what I've been saying for years.I don't necessarily consider it moral superiority. But, how many times are they supposed to sit there and watch as the suicide bombers come in before they wipe the Palestinians off the face of the earth?
GrayPilgrim
Wielder of the Flame of Arnor
Yes, aside from theological grounds, if one of the goals of the USA is to support democracy as Israel is the only democratic nation in the Middle East then of course we should. All the other nations there are dictatorships of one ilk or another.
On the issue of the Palestinians. From what I understand, if one spends time in Israel, they will gennerally come home more impressed with them than with the manners of the Israelis. However, whenever I am watching the news about violence there I just turn the channel. I once saw an interview with a journalist who explained how all the stuff you see is scripted. It runs like this:
This all prevent me from really "feeling sorry" for them. While in the pictures we see they always are throwing rocks so that we thing that they are a "poor little David" against "a nasty Goliath" when the cameras are not around they generally are firing machine guns at the Israelis, but that would distort their propaganda and loose their under dog sympathy, so we never get to see that part.
GP
On the issue of the Palestinians. From what I understand, if one spends time in Israel, they will gennerally come home more impressed with them than with the manners of the Israelis. However, whenever I am watching the news about violence there I just turn the channel. I once saw an interview with a journalist who explained how all the stuff you see is scripted. It runs like this:
- Early morning (during the cool of the day) the Israelis and Palestinians clash. However, the journalists are not present as they are concerned about their safety
- Late morning (when it heats up) the two sides retreat indoors to escape the heat, and the journalists show up, and start interviewing.
- Late afternoon (cooling of the day) journalists pay Palestinians to stage a rock throwing for their cameras.
This all prevent me from really "feeling sorry" for them. While in the pictures we see they always are throwing rocks so that we thing that they are a "poor little David" against "a nasty Goliath" when the cameras are not around they generally are firing machine guns at the Israelis, but that would distort their propaganda and loose their under dog sympathy, so we never get to see that part.
GP
\o/\o/ I will warn you as I have warned others, if you have an argument to make... make it.
We encourge point vs. counter point debate at TOL. Not a battle of the weblinks.
Fair enough?
We encourge point vs. counter point debate at TOL. Not a battle of the weblinks.
Fair enough?
\o/\o/
New member
OK, since you carry the big stick.
I suggest you not allow anyone to post links, rather than censoring views which you don't like so much.
Anyone interested to see what was not allowed can go to David Duke's website and see his article about the terrorism of Israel. (This is not an endorsement of the entire website or of David Duke.)
I suggest you not allow anyone to post links, rather than censoring views which you don't like so much.
Anyone interested to see what was not allowed can go to David Duke's website and see his article about the terrorism of Israel. (This is not an endorsement of the entire website or of David Duke.)
Nori, I know what you are saying. But I never condoned what the Palestineans are doing either. I am just saying that there is a fair share of wrong happening on both sides of the fence there, and that support of that is just as wrong. Since when is vengeance right?
Secondly, the nation of Israel today is not the Israel of the Bible except in relative land-space occupation. I think we, as Christians, are obliged to support the Jews, but not necessarily the Israelies. Plenty of Romans lived in Palestine during their empire, but that did not make them Jews.
Secondly, the nation of Israel today is not the Israel of the Bible except in relative land-space occupation. I think we, as Christians, are obliged to support the Jews, but not necessarily the Israelies. Plenty of Romans lived in Palestine during their empire, but that did not make them Jews.
P
Pilgrimagain
Guest
Isareli does not equal Israelite.
John Gault
New member
It really is as simple as this:
If the Arabs put down their arms there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their arms there would be no more Israel.
The United States should continue to support Israel for these reasons.
If the Arabs put down their arms there would be no more violence.
If the Jews put down their arms there would be no more Israel.
The United States should continue to support Israel for these reasons.
Flipper
New member
If you consider your territory to be occupied by your enemies, many of whom are well-documented as treating you as second class citizens in your own home, wouldn't you consider resistance to be the appropriate and patriotic thing to do? Wouldn't you even consider it an imperative?
Yes, I accept that quite a lot of this mistreatment is driven by Israeli security concerns. But that doesn't cut much ice if you are at the recieving end of it.
You also need to consider that quite a lot of the Israeli behaviour is deliberately quite provocative. The bulldozing of houses and building of new settlements, for example.
Yes, suicide bombings are horrific, but sadly they can also been seen as one of the few effective tools of retribution and punishment available to the Palestinians who don't have a well-trained army, high-tech weapons, or an airforce.
Israeli operations are somewhat handicapped because they have to preserve a figleaf of concern about Palestinian civilian casualties or they will be sacrificed on the stage of world opinion. Palestinian operations, on the other hand, are handicapped by the fact that they can realistically only hurt Israel by attacking the weak and vulnerable. The bus travellers, the settlers, children, and shoppers.
On the BBC World News yesterday, I watched a Meerkava tank firing its machine gun at a group of about six kids and early teens who were throwing stones at it. That's a disproportionate use of force in my book.
The civilian body count is severely skewed in favor of the Israelis, suicide bombs or no suicide bombs.
This quote is from Amnesty International, who never play favorites:
http://web.amnesty.org/ai.nsf/Index...ment&of=COUNTRIES\ISRAEL/OCCUPIED+TERRITORIES
Flipper
New member
\o/\o/ wrote:
Why try bouncing people there then?
Can't you find any other organisation who is:
a) remotely credible in the eyes of the majority
b) experts in the area and its politics rather than peanut gallery nutjobs
c) not widely known to be utterly biased Jew haters?
Are your critical judgement skills that retarded?
Why try bouncing people there then?
Can't you find any other organisation who is:
a) remotely credible in the eyes of the majority
b) experts in the area and its politics rather than peanut gallery nutjobs
c) not widely known to be utterly biased Jew haters?
Are your critical judgement skills that retarded?