I'm not expecting an honest or even rational reply from Just Tom (Just Gay), Army of One (Army in my @ss), or Cletus, they have far too much invested in their bigoted worldview to ever see through their own hatred. If they do choose to reply, I'd hope they would attack the facts I'm proposing. I'd ask people like K$, whom I believe actually read responses such as these rather than blankly dismissing them, to read and discern what is most likely in your own minds..
Before I answer the questions, which translation are you using..? The first question hinges upon the translation of the word you used for "sodomites." As we can see from
Strong's, the Greek word, "
arsenokoites," is translated "them that defile themselves with mankind." If you asked someone what the latter phrase meant, they would scratch their heads; if you asked a Christian, he would immediately connect the term to homosexuals. Why is that? From a
side-by-side comparison, other translations of the bible did not have a clear-cut definition of what "arsenokoites" meant, either.
The Jerusalem Bible, German 1968 translated "arsenokoitai" as "
child molesters". Of course, fundamentalists ignore that bible translation [as well as Phillips (1958), Jerusalem Bible (French -1955), The Latin Vulgate, (405), etc., of which reject the homosexual interpretation] while accepting the NIV (which is unclear since it has the translation "homosexual offenders").
Robbin Scroggs feels that arsenokoitai refers to a man who uses the services of "call-boys", and that malakoi refers to those "call-boys". In his book, "The New Testament and Homosexuality", Scroggs writes, "If the malakos points to the effeminate call-boy, then the arsenokoites in this context must be the active partner who keeps the malakos as a 'mistress' or who hires him on occasion to satisfy his sexual desires. No more than molakos is to be equated with the youth in general, the eromenos, can arsenokoites be equated with the adult in general, the erastes" (pg. 108).
- source
A way to get at the meaning of
arsenokoites is to look at other contexts in which the Greek word appeared independently of Paul. These other occurrences (Sibylline Oracles 2.70-77, Acts of John; Theophilus of Antioch Ad Autolycum)
suggest that the word refers to some kind of economic exploitation by means of sex (but not necessarily homosexual sex). Perhaps the more important question is why some scholars are certain the word refers to male-male sex in the face of evidence to the contrary. Perhaps ideology has been more important than philology. -
source
Getting back to question 1, the word, homosexual,
wasn't even coined until the 19th century, so, no homosexuality, as we understand the word today is not included in the verse you supplied as the author had originally intended for it to.
For the second question as to whether there should be a law if homosexuality was included on that list; this is something that has always confused me, and I hope that someone could help me see the Christian perspective.
Assume homosexuality was on "the list," Timothy's list includes liars and perjurers; Paul's list in 1 Corinthians includes adulterers, thieves, and the greedy (K$,
this last one may apply "I'm made of money and want more. :greedy: "
My honest question is,
why the double-standard,
especially when these behaviors are spelled out so plainly and the true meaning of "arsenokoites" is unknown? In our society today, liars, perjurers, adulterers, thieves, and the greedy are frowned upon, but they are ultimately accepted. The same cannot be said of homosexuals.
To answer the second question, if there should be a law against homosexuality by accordance to this list, then
the punishment should be equal for all who are guilty. And before you jump on the bandwagon and say, "Fine!" you need to explain how little 6 year olds are going to be punished or put to death if they're caught telling white lies.
