ECT Salvation Under the Law

[DAN P]

I have already shown you that both Jews and Gentiles were baptized into the Body of Christ. Here it is again:

"For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

What is your point and what does it have to do with the subject of this thread?

Thanks!

Hi Jerry and do you know what the PRESENT TENSE means , and it is OBVIOUSLY you do not KNOW !!

1 Cor 12:13 tells how we are PLACED / BAPTIZO into the B O C and Gal 3:28 explains how we ARE / ESTE in Christ Jesus , which means OSAS !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and , here Paul is writing to the Body of Christ and not to Israel and it is OBVIOUSLY you have no understanding as to whar Gal 3:28 really means "

By the introduction we can see that Paul is writing to those in the church at Corinth and all those who in every place call on the name of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor.1:2). The Jews who lived in every place called on the name of the Lord Jesus so when Paul wrote this it was addressed to the Jewish believers in every place:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Cornelius Stam is not alone about his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 1:2. Matthew Henry wrote:

"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours' " (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

John Nelson Darby understood the verse in the same way, writing the following:

"He addresses the assembly of God at Corinth, adding a character (the application of which is evident when we consider the contents of the epistle) 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.' Afterwards the universality of the application of the doctrine and instructions of the epistle, and of its authority over all Christians, wherever they might be, is brought forward in this address" (John Nelson Darby, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

A.R. Fausset comments on the verse matches the commentary of both Stam and Darby:

"with all that in every place call upon . . . Christ--The Epistle is intended for these also, as well as for the Corinthians. The true CATHOLIC CHURCH (a term first used by IGNATIUS [Epistle to the Smyraeans, 8]): not consisting of those who call themselves from Paul, Cephas, or any other eminent leader ( 1Cr 1:12 ), but of all, wherever they be, who call on Jesus as their Saviour in sincerity (compare 2Ti 2:22). Still a general unity of discipline and doctrine in the several churches is implied in 1Cr 4:17 7:17 11:16 14:33, 36" (A. R. Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

 

[DAN P]

By the introduction we can see that Paul is writing to those in the church at Corinth and all those who in every place call on the name of the Lord Jesus (1 Cor.1:2). The Jews who lived in every place called on the name of the Lord Jesus so when Paul wrote this it was addressed to the Jewish believers in every place:

"For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit" (1 Cor.12:13).​

Cornelius Stam, the founder of the Berean Bible Society, wrote the following commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2:

"There are other evidences that the kingdom saints of Paul's day became members of the Body of Christ. In I Corinthians 1:2, Paul addresses his letter to the Corinthian church, 'with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs [those in every place] and ours [those with Paul].' And he says to 'all' these believers 'in every place': 'For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one Body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles' (I Cor. 12:13). How can this be made to exclude the Judean believers?" (Cornelius Stam, Commentary on Galatians [Stevens Point, WI: Worzalla Publishing Co., 1998], 198).​

Cornelius Stam is not alone about his interpretation of 1 Corinthians 1:2. Matthew Henry wrote:

"In conjunction with the church at Corinth, he directs the epistle 'to all that in every place call on the name of Christ Jesus our Lord, both theirs and ours' " (Matthew Henry, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

John Nelson Darby understood the verse in the same way, writing the following:

"He addresses the assembly of God at Corinth, adding a character (the application of which is evident when we consider the contents of the epistle) 'sanctified in Christ Jesus.' Afterwards the universality of the application of the doctrine and instructions of the epistle, and of its authority over all Christians, wherever they might be, is brought forward in this address" (John Nelson Darby, Commentary at 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

A.R. Fausset comments on the verse matches the commentary of both Stam and Darby:

"with all that in every place call upon . . . Christ--The Epistle is intended for these also, as well as for the Corinthians. The true CATHOLIC CHURCH (a term first used by IGNATIUS [Epistle to the Smyraeans, 8]): not consisting of those who call themselves from Paul, Cephas, or any other eminent leader ( 1Cr 1:12 ), but of all, wherever they be, who call on Jesus as their Saviour in sincerity (compare 2Ti 2:22). Still a general unity of discipline and doctrine in the several churches is implied in 1Cr 4:17 7:17 11:16 14:33, 36" (A. R. Fausset, Jamieson, Fausset & Brown; Commentary on 1 Corinthians 1:2).​

Hi Jerry and the verse in Gal 3:28 is speaking to the B O C and not to the MESSIANNIC Jews of Peter's time or to Jesus earthly ministry >

The Gal 3:28 verse is spaeking to those , in the B O C and the 4 verbs are in the Greek PRESENT TENSE of the Dispensation of the Grace of God !!

Gal 3:28 begins like this , because of the PRESENT TENSE , THERE CANNOT BE Jews nor Greeks , do you see that , and take off your Acts 2 glesses off first , there CANNOT be Slave nor free , there CANNOT BE Male and Female , for you ARE /ESTE ONE in Christ Jesus !!

The phrase " in Christ " IS only expounded by Paul !!

The Greek PRESENT TENSE means a CONTINUOUS ACTION and this Continuous Action is ONLY in the B O C and not in Matthew , Mark , or Luke or in John or in James , or in 1,2,3,John !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and here is another wrong statement as Jews had to Have repentance of good works and be WATER BAPTIZED to be saved as referenced in Matt 3:8 and in Acts 26:20 !!

Are you another one who does not even understand the principles of salvation by grace? Paul writes that "works" and "grace" are mutually exclusive:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

Paul also makes it plain that those who lived under the Law were saved by "grace":

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who lived under the Law were saved by grace and since it is of grace then it is not of works. This evidience cannot be refuted so it becomes obvious that you are not understanding correctly the passages about water baptism.

Hi Jerry and the verse in Gal 3:28 is speaking to the B O C and not to the MESSIANNIC Jews of Peter's time or to Jesus earthly ministry >

Why did you quote my comments about 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 12:13 and then completely IGNORE what I wrote?

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You've missed it - Jesus was merely doing what will later be revealed one aspect of the Law had been intended to reveal - that all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.

That all are under sin.

That is absolutely correct, Danoh.

Sir Robert Anderson addresses the verses which Clete posted, writing the following:

"There are two alternative principles on which alone justification is now theoretically possible. The one is by man's deserving it; the other is through God's unmerited favour. Let a man, from the cradle to the grave, be everything he ought to be, and do everything he ought to do; let him, as our author puts it, love God with all his heart, and his neighbour as himself walking 'purely, humbly, and beneficently while on earth,' and such an one will 'inherit eternal life.' But all such pretensions betoken moral and spiritual ignorance and degradation. All men are sinners; and being sinners they are absolutely dependent upon grace " (Andersom, The Silence of God, [Kregel Publications, 1978], p.100).​

So the Lord Jesus told the rich young man that in order to have eternal life he must keep the Law in order to convict that man of his sinfulness.

 

[Interplanner]

That is absolutely correct, Danoh.

Sir Robert Anderson addresses the verses which Clete posted, writing the following:

"There are two alternative principles on which alone justification is now theoretically possible. The one is by man's deserving it; the other is through God's unmerited favour. Let a man, from the cradle to the grave, be everything he ought to be, and do everything he ought to do; let him, as our author puts it, love God with all his heart, and his neighbour as himself walking 'purely, humbly, and beneficently while on earth,' and such an one will 'inherit eternal life.' But all such pretensions betoken moral and spiritual ignorance and degradation. All men are sinners; and being sinners they are absolutely dependent upon grace " (Andersom, The Silence of God, [Kregel Publications, 1978], p.100).​

So the Lord Jesus told the rich young man that in order to have eternal life he must keep the Law in order to convict that man of his sinfulness.

Great quote, Jerry! Thank you! It seems that the genius of the Gospel is that it can tell a person 'OK, do everything perfect your whole life' (they should see their failure) or:
just tell them 'we are too sinful and need outside help' (they should see their failure). And then it adds a third 'hit': Christ came, obeyed perfectly, lived, suffered and sacrificed for sin, meaning, we must need outside help! (they should see their failure that way too!)

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and here is another wrong statement as Jews had to Have repentance of good works and be WATER BAPTIZED to be saved as referenced in Matt 3:8 and in Acts 26:20 !!

Are you another one who does not even understand the principles of salvation by grace? Paul writes that "works" and "grace" are mutually exclusive:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

Paul also makes it plain that those who lived under the Law were saved by "grace":

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who lived under the Law were saved by grace and since it is of grace then it is not of works. This evidience cannot be refuted so it becomes obvious that you are not understanding correctly the passages about water baptism.

Hi Jerry and the verse in Gal 3:28 is speaking to the B O C and not to the MESSIANNIC Jews of Peter's time or to Jesus earthly ministry >

Why did you quote my comments about 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 12:13 and then completely IGNORE what I wrote?

 

[jamie]

The phrase " in Christ " IS only expounded by Paul !!

The phrase "in Christ" IS only expounded by Paul who said, "And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s seed and heirs according to the promise."

Abraham's seed is Israel and Abraham is the father of us all.

There is no body of Christ apart from Jesus who is also Abraham's seed.

 

[jamie]

So the Lord Jesus told the rich young man that in order to have eternal life he must keep the Law in order to convict that man of his sinfulness.

Jesus knew the young man put his wealth ahead of God therefore breaking the first commandment.

 

[DAN P]

Are you another one who does not even understand the principles of salvation by grace? Paul writes that "works" and "grace" are mutually exclusive:

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

Paul also makes it plain that those who lived under the Law were saved by "grace":

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who lived under the Law were saved by grace and since it is of grace then it is not of works. This evidience cannot be refuted so it becomes obvious that you are not understanding correctly the passages about water baptism.



Why did you quote my comments about 1 Corinthians 1:2 and 12:13 and then completely IGNORE what I wrote?

Hi and one reason is that you are NOT making sense , by saying SAVED under the Law is the same as being , MSAVED under Grace , and that is not scriptual !!

It is also OBVIOUSLY that you will never understand Gal 3:28 !!

So I never avoid anyone so far and you are the LEAST of them !!

1 Cor 1:2 reads , To the ASSEMBLY OF God in Corinth , HAVING been Sanctied in Christ , called saints , with all the ones calling upon the NAME of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place , both theirsand ours !

#1 , The first verb is IS /ON and is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE and the Context is the Dispensation of the Grace of God !!

The second verb in the Greek is to them that are sanctied kis in the Greek PERFECT TENSE which means from the POINT of salvation we are ALWAYS SANCTIFIED forever or OSAS and the PASSIVE VOICE is used which means God does the sanctication !!

The third verb is CALL UPON is oNLY in the Dispensation of thre Grace of God because that is the AGE we are in !!


If you really believe 1 Cor 2:14 , how were you saved ??

Only God gives the INCREASE !!

Here is what I mean !!

God says this ----- !

Then you do this -----!!

So then , how were you saved and get around 1 Cor 2:14 ??

Any one who BLENDS lAW and GRACE knows HOW ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and one reason is that you are NOT making sense , by saying SAVED under the Law is the same as being , MSAVED under Grace , and that is not scriptual !!

Paul said that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Do you not believe Paul?

 

[DAN P]

Paul said that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Do you not believe Paul?

Hi Jerry and I am a DISPENSATIONALIST and you are NOT and that is why we hold different views as to how we are saved !!
You have yet to explain Acts 15:11 !!

If you are saved by Grace explain what verses you can use !!

Will you explain 1 Cor 2:14 and is this for those under the Law of Moses ??

So explain how anyone is saved by Grace , under this AGE ??

You say that under the Law , they are saved the same way as GRACE and you are WRONG !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

You say that under the Law , they are saved the same way as GRACE and you are WRONG !!

if I am wrong then Paul is wrong also because Paul said that those who lived under the law were saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Do you not believe Paul?

 

[DAN P]

Hi and I have already answered From 4:16 and repeat it again Monday since you Cannot debunk. Gal3:28 Dan p

Sent from my XT1254 using TheologyOnline mobile app

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and here is another wrong statement as Jews had to Have repentance of good works and be WATER BAPTIZED to be saved as referenced in Matt 3:8 and in Acts 26:20 !!

No, before a person could be baptized with water they had to believe and it was one's faith that resulted in salvation. The Lord Jesus told a Jewish woman the following:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

So simple!

 

[DAN P]

No, before a person could be baptized with water they had to believe and it was one's faith that resulted in salvation. The Lord Jesus told a Jewish woman the following:

"And he said unto her, Thy sins are forgiven. And they that sat at meat with him began to say within themselves, Who is this that forgiveth sins also? And he said to the woman, Thy faith hath saved thee; go in peace" (Lk.7:48-50).​

So simple!

Hi and why is Matt 3:8 and Acts 26:20 , WRONG !!

It is all CONTEXT and Luke 7:48-50 IS in the Greek AORIST TENSE and it speaks to Jesus earthly ministry !!

So she was SAVED by Faith , BUT you have been saying that Jews and Gentiles are saved by GRACE !!

Jerry , do you see WATER BAPTISM after Acts 10:47 ??

I say that GRACE is a translitered word and there are many meanings for GRACE , so what does GRACE mean ??

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

So she was sVED by Faith , BUT you have been saying that Jews and Gentiles are saved by GRACE !!

She lived under the law and she was saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who are saved by grace are saved apart from works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

 

[DAN P]

She lived under the law and she was saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who are saved by grace are saved apart from works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

Hi Jerry and where does it say GRACE IN THE ABOVE passage ??

Jerry , there is a DIFFERENCE between GRACE and the DISPENSATION of the GRACE of God !!

Then you quote a Pauline truth to TRY to prove something that happened under Jesus earthly ministry that be CONTEXT has NOTHING to do in our DISPENSATION that Paul preached !!

Where does Jesus OR the 12 preach the Gospel of the Grace of God , NOWHERE !!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

She lived under the law and she was saved by grace through faith:

"Therefore it is of faith, that it might be by grace; to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed; not to that only which is of the law, but to that also which is of the faith of Abraham; who is the father of us all" (Ro.4:16).​

Those who are saved by grace are saved apart from works:

"For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast" (Eph.2:8-9).​

"Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt" (Ro.4:4).​

Hi Jerry , so what does GRACE then mean , and since there are 12 different ways to translate it , in Acts 15: 11 , WE ( JEWS ) shall be saved by God's FAVOR !!

dan p

 

[Jerry Shugart]

Hi and here is another wrong statement as Jews had to Have repentance of good works and be WATER BAPTIZED to be saved as referenced in Matt 3:8 and in Acts 26:20 !

I am thinking that you do not know what being saved by grace through faith is all about.

This discussion will go no where until youbegin to understand salvation on the principle of grace.

So at this point I just hope we can agree to disagree.