Salvation Through Mary?

[balut55]

Were you both Catholic when you married?

Are you a new man, in Christ? Eph 4:23-24

No. I was a poker playing drinking fool and she was and still is Catholic but she goes to an orthodox Catholic Church. She now believes Pope Francis is the false prophet. I have made some headway. His bless. Jesus is king.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

Revelations states that a false prophet from the abyss of hell will come on the scene. Pope Francis quotes

https://thewildvoice.org/pope-francis-chronology-perspective/

Compilation of statements the Pope has made that contradict the Bible and minimize Jesus and lifts up Islam.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

Any particular parts that stand out as particularly "satanic" or is that just a general statement you make because it was written by the Pope?

Peace.

The false interpretation of revelations 12 where he glorifies mother Mary. This interpretation goes along with chapter 19 of the Koran.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

God bless. Obviously he is big on protection of the environment but this just translates to Eugenics for most billionaires. Hence him being named after St. Francis. The nature Saint or whatever. We know who the real saints are. P


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

Can you say global warming?


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

Anything specific that you want to mention that he has done that is so "hell-like"?



Where in the book of Job? I shouldn't have to read the entire book to see if what you are saying is correct.

How about giving me a chapter(s) and verse(s) so I can see if your interpretation is accurate?



Amen.



Double Amen!



I will try to do better at that.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Peace.[/QUOTE]

Satan has to ask permission for everything he does. That is the point of the book of Job. Yes you should read the whole chapter.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

Peace.

Satan has to ask permission for everything he does. That is the point of the book of Job. Yes you should read the whole chapter.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL[/QUOTE]
He arranged to make preaching outside the Catholic Church illegal in Russia. He is preventing Gods children from hearing the truth as most of the truth is outside the Catholic Church. He stood by and didn't say **** when 30,000 people were killed in Argentina for having antigovernment views. I don't think he wants to make it obvious who he is. I think he should speak out or even use all the power he has to stop the summary executions of philipinos by supposed other Catholics of supposed drug dealers. Come on 4,000 drug dealers dead. Must of them were just poor people in the wrong place at the wrong time or just poor drug users.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[balut55]

He helped create Isis but I can't prove that one. But I believe it 100%


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

 

[Sealeaf]

Quote Originally Posted by Jerry Shugart View Post
The church at Rome teaches that no one attains salvation except through Mary:
"Since faith is the foundation, the source, of the gifts of God by which man is raised above the order of nature and is endowed with the dispositions requisite for life eternal, we are in justice bound to recognize the hidden influence of Mary in obtaining the gift of faith and its salutary cultivation - of Mary who brought the "author of faith" into this world and who, because of her own great faith, was called 'blessed.' 'O Virgin most holy, none abounds in the knowledge of God except through thee; none, O Mother of God, attains salvation except through thee; none receives a gift from the throne of mercy except through thee" (ADIUTRICEM (On the Rosary), Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII, promulgated on September 5, 1895).

That teaching is contradicted by what the Apostle Peter said here:

"Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:10-12).

Why can't those who attend the church at Rome understand that salvation comes from the Lord Jesus Christ alone?

So some Catholics are going overboard in the honor they pay to Mary. I can understand how they got to that place even if I think they have overdone it.
Look, we all want Jesus to like us, right? That is what "Salvation" really means. "Jesus is my bud, He has got my back." So, you do not dis your friend's Mom if you want Him to stay your friend. It is that simple.

In the thousand plus years of Christian history that the above principle has been in play, devote preachers have been trying to find ever nicer thing to say about Mary. ('Cause they want Jesus to like them, ya'know.) Eventually they got into what we can see as doctrinal shaky ground, but they got there honestly. There is no need for anger about it.

 

[clefty]

So some Catholics are going overboard in the honor they pay to Mary. I can understand how they got to that place even if I think they have overdone it.
Look, we all want Jesus to like us, right? That is what "Salvation" really means. "Jesus is my bud, He has got my back." So, you do not dis your friend's Mom if you want Him to stay your friend. It is that simple.

In the thousand plus years of Christian history that the above principle has been in play, devote preachers have been trying to find ever nicer thing to say about Mary. ('Cause they want Jesus to like them, ya'know.) Eventually they got into what we can see as doctrinal shaky ground, but they got there honestly. There is no need for anger about it.

Ummmmm sure there is...more of a righteous anger though...hate what He hates sort of thing...and He detests idolatry...absolutely...calls it an abomination...

Him alone is pretty clear...but here comes talk of veneration and latria and He did too...

She is dead...asleep...awaiting resurrection...and would be horrified for what they have done with her Son's message which now includes her being elevated to pray to..."they do what with my likeness?"

Yup idolatry...I am sure she covered that with Him when she taught Him enough to debate at the temple at the age of 12...

Maybe she left Him there on purpose...I mean saints don't make mistakes yes? Leaving her Son of there...

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The RCC is mentioned in the book of Revelations, right here:

Rev 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication:
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.

Now folks must try to understand who the Harlots are.

I noticed that those verses don't mention the RCC anywhere.

That is just your interpretation.

I think a better interpretation is that is is pagan Rome.

Since we both are allowed to read and understand our bibles as led by the Holy Spirit (I presume), both interpretations, at the minimum, would have to be considered equally valid.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Paragraph 491 is a case of inferring is it not? There is no explicit scripture to back this up - so why do so?

Have you got something against inferences?

There is no explicit scripture that says God is a Trinity...that must be inferred. Do you reject that because it is an inference?

There is no explicit scripture that says there will be no more public revelation given by God. Yet a majority of Christians believe that. Do you reject that due to lack of explicit scripture?

Come to think of it, there is no explicit Scripture that says that there must be an explicit Scripture in order for something to be believed in. Yet you seem to believe that....without "explicit Scripture" support.
Why?

Jesus built His Church. (Matthew 16:18)
He left it with His authority (Matthew 28)
To listen to His Church is to listen to Him, to reject His Church is to reject Him. (Luke 10:16)

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Angela Merkel,Putin as he signed the law against preaching after the Pope met with Krill. Also Krill Russian orthodox head. The head of Salvation Army church. Google his meetings. He takes over all Religion. There is only one valid church. Look that one up.
Edrogan,all Muslim clerics. John Kerry,Clintons,I think Trump is a little rogue but hard to tell. All of the UN. And many more. Duterte of the Philippines. Trump is gonna fulfill Pope Francis wish of destroying each individual's pursuit of wealth as outlined in his encyclical. You can see it materializing with all the back and forth lying wonders between Putin and him. Open your eyes. It's all there. It takes hours and hours of reading and looking at statements. Isis is the creation of government and the Pope. Watch the Pope tell the EU to take more refugees that he created.
And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.

Isis is the creation of the Pope? The Pope controls all muslim clerics? Pretty outlandish claims, in my opinion. There is no way anybody can even know that second one let alone expect other people to believe that they know it. I don't have the time or energy to address all of your conspiracy theories. You can believe all of that if you want.

Revelations 12

Pope Francis is the false prophet from the abyss of hell.

Or...your non-infallible interpretation could be wrong and he isn't.

Is that not a synonym of the serpent or Satan. Woman is Israel.

Wait....so the child who rules with a rod of iron....that would be the person Jesus.
And the dragon who seeks to destroy the child and his mother...that would be the person Satan.

But the mother of the child....that, for some reason, cannot be the person Mary?

Yeah. That makes no sense.

I agree that parts of the book of Revelations can have multiple meanings and that the woman can represent Israel in one sense. It can also represent the Church in another sense.

But the most literal and straightforward reading is that the woman is Mary.

That, too, is a legitimate reading.

Peace.



Sent from my iPhone using TOL[/QUOTE]

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

God bless. The EU is the new Holy Roman Empire. You have to put many pieces together. Knowledge of history is helpful. That's why God says there is nothing new under the sun. Everything comes back because the old hate is carried down. Just ask George Soros. I forgot about him. Pope Francis and him are on exactly the same Satanic page.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

Here are some quotes from "satanic" Pope Francis' encyclical Laudato si:

"For all our limitations, gestures of generosity, solidarity and care cannot but well up within us, since we were made for love." (paragraph 58)

"We do not only exist by God’s mighty power; we also live with him and beside him. This is why we adore him." (paragraph 72)

"When we can see God reflected in all that exists, our hearts are moved to praise the Lord for all his creatures and to worship him in union with them." (paragraph 87)

So Satan and/or his minions are now into "love" and "adoring" and "worshipping God"? Really??

I don't think so.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

Revelations states that a false prophet from the abyss of hell will come on the scene. Pope Francis quotes

https://thewildvoice.org/pope-francis-chronology-perspective/

Compilation of statements the Pope has made that contradict the Bible and minimize Jesus and lifts up Islam.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

This is a laughable source that ignores the context of what the Pope said.

Most certainly NOT serious scholarship. Unreliable.

Peace.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The false interpretation of revelations 12 where he glorifies mother Mary. This interpretation goes along with chapter 19 of the Koran.


Sent from my iPhone using TOL

It isn't a false interpretation. It is the most straightforward interpretation.

Child who rules with rod of iron = the person Jesus
Dragon who seeks to destroy = the person Satan.
Woman of the child = Mary.

I don't see the correlation between Surah 19 of the Koran and Revelations 12 but even if it is there....so what? What would that prove?

The Koran was written about 600 years AFTER the book of Revelation, you know and not the other way around.

Anything substantial you can point to in his encyclical that was "satanic" in nature?

I don't know...an awful lot of talk about caring for the earth, caring for the poor, loving God and others, worshipping God, etc.

Since when is Satan so filled with compassion and love?

I think you are flat out wrong.

Peace.

 

[keypurr]

I noticed that those verses don't mention the RCC anywhere.

That is just your interpretation.

I think a better interpretation is that is is pagan Rome.

Since we both are allowed to read and understand our bibles as led by the Holy Spirit (I presume), both interpretations, at the minimum, would have to be considered equally valid.

Peace.

That brings us right back to the RCC then, for it is the most Pagan of the "Christian" churches. It was controlled by the State in the fourth century. The Pagans were given a say for they were the majority.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

That brings us right back to the RCC then, for it is the most Pagan of the "Christian" churches. It was controlled by the State in the fourth century. The Pagans were given a say for they were the majority.

Nope.

John was writing in the first century and he was writing about the 1st century pagan Roman empire.

No, it wasn't controlled by the State in the fourth century. It was allowed to exist without persecution (tolerated) early in the century and then underwent persecution again in the later part of the century. (It depended on the emperor at the time).

Peace.

 

[Sonnet]

Have you got something against inferences?

There is no explicit scripture that says God is a Trinity...that must be inferred. Do you reject that because it is an inference?

There is no explicit scripture that says there will be no more public revelation given by God. Yet a majority of Christians believe that. Do you reject that due to lack of explicit scripture?

Come to think of it, there is no explicit Scripture that says that there must be an explicit Scripture in order for something to be believed in. Yet you seem to believe that....without "explicit Scripture" support.
Why?

Jesus built His Church. (Matthew 16:18)
He left it with His authority (Matthew 28)
To listen to His Church is to listen to Him, to reject His Church is to reject Him. (Luke 10:16)

Peace.

The Trinity remains a mystery - but John 20:28 is explicit in terms of the divinity of Jesus.

The difference of course is that Mary's role in scripture is minor so why bother to focus on her? You might consider John the Baptist more so: Matthew 10:11.

 

[Bard_the_Bowman]

The Trinity remains a mystery - but John 20:28 is explicit in terms of the divinity of Jesus.

The difference of course is that Mary's role in scripture is minor so why bother to focus on her? You might consider John the Baptist more so: Matthew 10:11.

Hi Sonnet,

Yes the Trinity is a mystery and John 20 is explicit.

But the fact remains that for us to believe that God is a Trinity has to be inferred from Scripture because it is nowhere explicitly stated.

I don't agree that Mary's role is minor. She gave Birth to the second Person of the Trinity and was His mother. She gave birth to Jesus. She brought God into our world. That is not a minor role.
Holy smokes that is the Incarnation! That is probably the most major role! God came to Earth!

And she wasn't forced to do that. She wasn't "used" by God against her will. She agreed to do that.

Does any mother play a minor role in the life of their child? I don't think so. That might be why so many football players get on the screen and say "Hi Mom!".

I don't think we can determine major versus minor roles by the amount of ink used on a particular person.

Joseph, for example. We hear very little about him. But he was willing to care for Mary and her child (whom he did not help create), provide for them, protect them, help raise Jesus as His foster-father.

Very "silent" life when it comes to what Scripture recorded. But minor? No way. Admirably humble, holy, and praiseworthy.

But going into a discussion about Mary will take us in a lot of different directions.

I was merely trying to point out in that post that just because Mary was born without sin doesn't mean that her mom, and her mom's mom, etc. all had to be born without sin as well. That just isn't the case.

Peace to you.