I'm Fully with you there.
ECT Romans 11:25-36 can't be erased (Israel's Vision will be restored)
- Thread starter 7Spirits
- Start date
I'm Fully with you there.
Hi and then , there CANNOT BE ?ENI which is in the Greek PRESENT TENSE , which points to the MYSTERY be Jews or Greeks , ot Bond and Free, nor Male not Female as we ARE / ESTE also in the PRESENT TENSE which means a continuous Action forever in the MYSTERY period and then are OSAS and means that we are a new creation " in Christ " and MARY is not Queen of Heaven !!
So , where in Acts 10:1-46 is Cornelius today ?
Part of Israel ?
Or in the B O C ??
dsn p
This is a biblical teaser. I like it. I'll get back with you on this. I'll need to study and pray on it.
Hi and it is not a teaser !!
Ask me and I will explain , happy to !!
It is all about rightly dividing !!
I like honesty , and is the best policy , so either you know or don't !!
dan p
I don't know. I would enjoy your explaination. Thank you.
Hi and , from Acts 10:44 the Holy Spirit fell upon them and in verse 45 the circumcision were amazed just as it happened at Pentcost !!
So Water Baptism is still in effect in verse 48 !!
So , Cornelius becomes part of Israel !!
Of course there is more to my answer , so read where I started any OP !!
Gal 3:28 also answers the question , are the 12 apostles IN or OUT of the B O C !!
There is more and I will have to go very soon !!
Some of your answers are good , in your above reply !!
I am an ACTS 9:6 DISPENSATIONALIST and will answer any question directed at me !!
dan p
Thank you, Dan. :e4e:
I would think the 12 remained in Israel, though Judas is in bad standing.
Hi and that is why Gal 3:28 and Col 3:11 and 2 Cor 3:13-16 are very important , see you Wedneday , God willing !!
dan p
Last edited:
"As Believing Jews shifted over to the Body of Christ, their distinction of Israelite and Jew was traded in for Member of the Body of Christ."
If what is being said above is that when Jews in the First Century came to faith and were born again and came out of the doctrines of Old Covenant Israel which are not the doctrines of Christ, then they became part of the Body of Christ, this would be a clear doctrine.
"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..
The distinction between Israel and the Church is fundamental to dispensationalism. Saying that when a First Century Jew came to faith in Christ and got out of the doctrines of Old Covenant Israel which are not those of Christ he becomes part of the Body of Christ, by which a dispensationalist could mean the Church contradicts dispensationalist doctrine. It adds to the confusion created by dispensationalism.
The implication behind all of the distinctions dispensationalists make in the doctrine of the Gospel and in the peoples of God is that for God, the physical bloodline still exists. In dispensationalism there is also that confusion over whether the Old Covenant was done away with as Hebrews 10: 9 and II Corinthians 3: 7 and 3: 11 say, and backed up by Colossians 2: 16-17.
If dispensationalists would come out and clearly say that the Old Covenant physical bloodline no longer exists as Galatians 3 strongly implies, supported by other NT scriptures, then that would do away with a basic foundation or starting point of that theology.
But to make their form of the dialectic within dialogue a game, dispensationalists do not clearly say what Israel is for them, what the Church is, whether the bloodline remains or whether they believe the Old Covenant was done away with or remains in part. In a sense the Hegelian and Marxist versions of the dialectic as a formalized method of making an argument - anti-thesis versus thesis - are "shifty." That is, change is the main point of the dialectic.
By using an anti-thesis, or opposition, against the absolute truth of scripture, dispensationalists are trying to shift or change the word of God. In fact, Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood. But in changing the interpretation of several key scriptures of the NT, the dispensationalists act as false prophets in reducing the spiritual power of Christ and his Gospel to change people. And - the multitude in Old Covenant Israel in strongly rejecting Christ act within the spirit of anti-Christ - I John 4: 3. Dispensationalists act as surrogates for that multitude of Old Covenant Israel who rejected Christ.
When dispensationalists do not state their positions in a clear way but create confusion, not only is their kind of dialectic shifty, but so is their theology. The shifty game begins to become part of dispensationalist theology itself.
If what is being said above is that when Jews in the First Century came to faith and were born again and came out of the doctrines of Old Covenant Israel which are not the doctrines of Christ, then they became part of the Body of Christ, this would be a clear doctrine.
"Israel is an eternal nation, heir to an eternal land, with an eternal kingdom, on which David rules from an eternal throne so that in eternity, '...never the twain, Israel and church, shall meet." Lewis S. Chafer, Systematic Theology (Dallas, Dallas Seminary Press, 1975), Vol. 4. pp. 315-323..
The distinction between Israel and the Church is fundamental to dispensationalism. Saying that when a First Century Jew came to faith in Christ and got out of the doctrines of Old Covenant Israel which are not those of Christ he becomes part of the Body of Christ, by which a dispensationalist could mean the Church contradicts dispensationalist doctrine. It adds to the confusion created by dispensationalism.
The implication behind all of the distinctions dispensationalists make in the doctrine of the Gospel and in the peoples of God is that for God, the physical bloodline still exists. In dispensationalism there is also that confusion over whether the Old Covenant was done away with as Hebrews 10: 9 and II Corinthians 3: 7 and 3: 11 say, and backed up by Colossians 2: 16-17.
If dispensationalists would come out and clearly say that the Old Covenant physical bloodline no longer exists as Galatians 3 strongly implies, supported by other NT scriptures, then that would do away with a basic foundation or starting point of that theology.
But to make their form of the dialectic within dialogue a game, dispensationalists do not clearly say what Israel is for them, what the Church is, whether the bloodline remains or whether they believe the Old Covenant was done away with or remains in part. In a sense the Hegelian and Marxist versions of the dialectic as a formalized method of making an argument - anti-thesis versus thesis - are "shifty." That is, change is the main point of the dialectic.
By using an anti-thesis, or opposition, against the absolute truth of scripture, dispensationalists are trying to shift or change the word of God. In fact, Lewis S. Chafer said that dispensationalism has "...changed the Bible from being a mass of more or less conflicting writings into a classified and easily assimilated revelation of both the earthly and heavenly purposes of God, which reach on into eternity to come.." Lewis. S. Chafer, ‘Dispensationalism,’ Bibliotheca Sacra, 93 (October 1936), 410, 416, 446-447
Chafer, a founder of Christian Zionism, following John Darby and C.I. Scofield, claimed the Bible is a mass or more or less conflicting writings and that dispensationalism or Christian Zionism makes the Bible more easily classified and assimilated, or more easily understood. But in changing the interpretation of several key scriptures of the NT, the dispensationalists act as false prophets in reducing the spiritual power of Christ and his Gospel to change people. And - the multitude in Old Covenant Israel in strongly rejecting Christ act within the spirit of anti-Christ - I John 4: 3. Dispensationalists act as surrogates for that multitude of Old Covenant Israel who rejected Christ.
When dispensationalists do not state their positions in a clear way but create confusion, not only is their kind of dialectic shifty, but so is their theology. The shifty game begins to become part of dispensationalist theology itself.
Part of your problem, northwye, is your obvious conclusion that anyone who does not hold to your obviously books based theology, is up to no good.
Considering that many book writers of all persuasions are ever positing that same mantra, I'm not in the least bit surprised that you (an individual who obviously over relies on the writings of men as to what is supposedly what in Scripture) have ended up infected with this same "up to no good" conclusion about any one not holding your books based views that so many within all schools of thought (including the various Dispy camps) end up infected with.
Personally, I don't view you as being up to no good.
Obviously entrenched in your just as obviously over relied on books based errors; yes.
Call this a dialectic if that makes your obvious confirmation bias for you.
Your loss. Not mine.
I shall continue to remain free of that, and thus able to learn from what contribution your posts might nevertheless bring to the table.
Here's to your putting away your obvious over reliance on your just as obvious endless books, one day.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
Considering that many book writers of all persuasions are ever positing that same mantra, I'm not in the least bit surprised that you (an individual who obviously over relies on the writings of men as to what is supposedly what in Scripture) have ended up infected with this same "up to no good" conclusion about any one not holding your books based views that so many within all schools of thought (including the various Dispy camps) end up infected with.
Personally, I don't view you as being up to no good.
Obviously entrenched in your just as obviously over relied on books based errors; yes.
Call this a dialectic if that makes your obvious confirmation bias for you.
Your loss. Not mine.
I shall continue to remain free of that, and thus able to learn from what contribution your posts might nevertheless bring to the table.
Here's to your putting away your obvious over reliance on your just as obvious endless books, one day.
Rom. 5:8
Acts 17:11,12
The dispensationalist belief that somehow the Old Covenant is still in existence and/or that those of the physical bloodline are still chosen by that bloodline is why the dispensationalists are arguing as representatives of the multitude of physical Israel and are so interested in the Jews.
Mark 8: 15 says "And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."
The issue of the tie between the religion of the Pharisees of Christ's
time and present day Talmudic Judaism is very relevant to the starting
assumptions of Christian Zionism which says that All Physical Israel, or All Jews,
now remain the people of God, even the chosen people, alongside
another people of God, the church, from ekklesia, meaning a meeting assembly or congregation.
Starting in II Kings 21: 13, then moving to Isaiah 29: 16, which
points to the parable of the potter of Jeremiah 18: 1-6, there is in
the Old Testament a thread of prophecy about the coming transformation
of physical Israel to what Peter in I Peter 2: 5-9 calls a spiritual
house. Hosea 2: 23 is one part of this thread on the transformation of
Israel. God said in the Old Testament that he was going to bring
non-Jews into his kingdom.
On http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt01.html
they say "the missing link in Christian understanding on the subject
of "Pharisees" is best supplied by the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
(1943): The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent,
without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their
leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous
extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud
is the largest and most important single piece of that literature …
and the study of it is essential for any real understanding of
Pharisaism.
Concerning the Pharisees, the 1905 Jewish Encyclopedia says: With
the destruction of the Temple (70 A.D.) the Sadducees disappeared
altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands
of the Pharisees. Henceforth, Jewish life was regulated by the
Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the
Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin
of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older priestly
tradition (Abot 1:1). Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and
the life and thought of the Jew for all the future."
"Rabbi Louis Finklestein was chosen in 1937 by the Kehillas (Jewish
communities) of the World as one of the top 120 Jews best representing
"a lamp of Judaism" to the World...In his two-volume work "The
Pharisees." Rabbi Finklestein writes: Pharasaism became Talmudism …
But the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the
Jew … studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used
in the Palestinian academies. From Palestine to Babylonia; from
Babylonia to North Africa, Italy. Spain, France and Germany; from
these to Poland. Russia and Eastern Europe generally, ancient
Pharasaism has wandered."
"In Rabbi Finklestein's history of the Jews, he states: The Talmud
derives its authority from the position held by the ancient academies.
(i.e. Pharisee) The teachers of those academies, both of Babylonia and
of Palestine. were considered the rightful successors of the older
Sanhedrin . . . At the present time, the Jewish people have no living
central authority comparable in status to the ancient Sanhedrins or
the later academies. Therefore, any decision regarding the Jewish
religion must be based on the Talmud as the final resumé of the
teaching of those authorities when they existed. [page 2] (The Jews
— Their History, Culture, and Religion , Vol. 4, p. 1332, Jewish
Publication Society of America, 1949). "
"Note the Foreword to the first English translation of the Babylonian
Talmud by the late Chief Rabbi of Great Britain, J.H. Hertz, who, like
Rabbi Finklestein, was one of the 120 Jews chosen in 1937 by the
Kehillas of the World as best holding up the "lamp of Judaism:" The
beginnings of Talmudic literature date back to the time of the
Babylonian Exile in the Sixth pre-Christian Century … When a thousand
years later, the Babylonian Talmud assumed final codified form in the
year 500 after the Christian era, the Roman Western Empire had ceased
to be."
In Christ's time the Pharisees were the leaders of most of the Jews.
There were a small number
of Jews who were faithful to the Lord, such as the two mentioned in
Luke 2: 25 and 2: 36, Simeon and
Anna, and others. In modern times, as the sources quoted above say,
Talmudic Judaism is derived from
the religion of the Pharisees of the First Century.
The important question is which group of Jews are the
dispensationalists refering to as Israel and the Jews? Is
it the Talmudic Jews who follow the Pharisees, or is it that very
small number of Jews who were faithful to God during the period
Christ was on earth, the remnant?
As representatives of the multitude of the Jews rather than of the remnant of the Jews, are not dispensationalists following the Pharisees, while still claiming somehow to follow Christ?
Have very many dispensationalists known Jews? I have known some, though decades ago, and still have contact with one or two. I have not known any Jews who are interested in becoming Christians, though some of them become friends with Christians.
Most Jews in 2017 are in Talmudic Judaism. This fact seems to have no effect upon the attitude of the dispensationalists toward the multitude of Old Covenant Israel.
Talmudic Jews use books other than the Old Testament, such as the Talmud and the Zohar. Zohar II, 4b, for example, says “The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively”
It is true that the eugenics movement, made up of Jews and non-Jews, has the same goal, to reduce the birth rate, and especially of the white, middle and lower middle class Americans, which has been accomplished since the end of the Baby Boomer generation in about 1964
But why would a Jewish book advocate the reduction of the non-Jewish birth rate?
Mark 8: 15 says "And he charged them, saying, Take heed, beware of the leaven of the Pharisees, and of the leaven of Herod."
The issue of the tie between the religion of the Pharisees of Christ's
time and present day Talmudic Judaism is very relevant to the starting
assumptions of Christian Zionism which says that All Physical Israel, or All Jews,
now remain the people of God, even the chosen people, alongside
another people of God, the church, from ekklesia, meaning a meeting assembly or congregation.
Starting in II Kings 21: 13, then moving to Isaiah 29: 16, which
points to the parable of the potter of Jeremiah 18: 1-6, there is in
the Old Testament a thread of prophecy about the coming transformation
of physical Israel to what Peter in I Peter 2: 5-9 calls a spiritual
house. Hosea 2: 23 is one part of this thread on the transformation of
Israel. God said in the Old Testament that he was going to bring
non-Jews into his kingdom.
On http://www.come-and-hear.com/dilling/chapt01.html
they say "the missing link in Christian understanding on the subject
of "Pharisees" is best supplied by the Universal Jewish Encyclopedia
(1943): The Jewish religion as it is today traces its descent,
without a break, through all the centuries, from the Pharisees. Their
leading ideas and methods found expression in a literature of enormous
extent, of which a very great deal is still in existence. The Talmud
is the largest and most important single piece of that literature …
and the study of it is essential for any real understanding of
Pharisaism.
Concerning the Pharisees, the 1905 Jewish Encyclopedia says: With
the destruction of the Temple (70 A.D.) the Sadducees disappeared
altogether, leaving the regulation of all Jewish affairs in the hands
of the Pharisees. Henceforth, Jewish life was regulated by the
Pharisees; the whole history of Judaism was reconstructed from the
Pharisaic point of view, and a new aspect was given to the Sanhedrin
of the past. A new chain of tradition supplanted the older priestly
tradition (Abot 1:1). Pharisaism shaped the character of Judaism and
the life and thought of the Jew for all the future."
"Rabbi Louis Finklestein was chosen in 1937 by the Kehillas (Jewish
communities) of the World as one of the top 120 Jews best representing
"a lamp of Judaism" to the World...In his two-volume work "The
Pharisees." Rabbi Finklestein writes: Pharasaism became Talmudism …
But the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the
Jew … studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used
in the Palestinian academies. From Palestine to Babylonia; from
Babylonia to North Africa, Italy. Spain, France and Germany; from
these to Poland. Russia and Eastern Europe generally, ancient
Pharasaism has wandered."
"In Rabbi Finklestein's history of the Jews, he states: The Talmud
derives its authority from the position held by the ancient academies.
(i.e. Pharisee) The teachers of those academies, both of Babylonia and
of Palestine. were considered the rightful successors of the older
Sanhedrin . . . At the present time, the Jewish people have no living
central authority comparable in status to the ancient Sanhedrins or
the later academies. Therefore, any decision regarding the Jewish
religion must be based on the Talmud as the final resumé of the
teaching of those authorities when they existed. [page 2] (The Jews
— Their History, Culture, and Religion , Vol. 4, p. 1332, Jewish
Publication Society of America, 1949). "
"Note the Foreword to the first English translation of the Babylonian
Talmud by the late Chief Rabbi of Great Britain, J.H. Hertz, who, like
Rabbi Finklestein, was one of the 120 Jews chosen in 1937 by the
Kehillas of the World as best holding up the "lamp of Judaism:" The
beginnings of Talmudic literature date back to the time of the
Babylonian Exile in the Sixth pre-Christian Century … When a thousand
years later, the Babylonian Talmud assumed final codified form in the
year 500 after the Christian era, the Roman Western Empire had ceased
to be."
In Christ's time the Pharisees were the leaders of most of the Jews.
There were a small number
of Jews who were faithful to the Lord, such as the two mentioned in
Luke 2: 25 and 2: 36, Simeon and
Anna, and others. In modern times, as the sources quoted above say,
Talmudic Judaism is derived from
the religion of the Pharisees of the First Century.
The important question is which group of Jews are the
dispensationalists refering to as Israel and the Jews? Is
it the Talmudic Jews who follow the Pharisees, or is it that very
small number of Jews who were faithful to God during the period
Christ was on earth, the remnant?
As representatives of the multitude of the Jews rather than of the remnant of the Jews, are not dispensationalists following the Pharisees, while still claiming somehow to follow Christ?
Have very many dispensationalists known Jews? I have known some, though decades ago, and still have contact with one or two. I have not known any Jews who are interested in becoming Christians, though some of them become friends with Christians.
Most Jews in 2017 are in Talmudic Judaism. This fact seems to have no effect upon the attitude of the dispensationalists toward the multitude of Old Covenant Israel.
Talmudic Jews use books other than the Old Testament, such as the Talmud and the Zohar. Zohar II, 4b, for example, says “The birth-rate of the Non-Jews has to be suppressed massively”
It is true that the eugenics movement, made up of Jews and non-Jews, has the same goal, to reduce the birth rate, and especially of the white, middle and lower middle class Americans, which has been accomplished since the end of the Baby Boomer generation in about 1964
But why would a Jewish book advocate the reduction of the non-Jewish birth rate?
Folks believe that because they have read scripture.
Romans 11:28 KJV
(28) As concerning the gospel, they [Israel] are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they [Israel] are beloved for the fathers' sakes.
I don't know if I read these exactly as you do, but there is no doubt that these make it clear that the Gentiles aren't the other flock.
I enjoyed reading these.
It would be dumb to conclude that the scattering of Israel was physical, but the regathering of them is spiritual.
It is the very physical of Israel that was scattered, therefore it can only be the very physical of Israel that is regathered.
It is the very physical of Israel that was scattered, therefore it can only be the very physical of Israel that is regathered.
Romans 11 KJV
(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
(25) For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Part blinded, and part unblinded (believer).
This partial blindness will remain until "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in".
Implying that the partial blindness will only last until a condition is met.
That condition is .... "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in".
I'll speak more of that phrase after I made this point .......
It was national Israel that was partially blinded, and that partial blindness would end at a certain point.
When that partial blindness ends, all Israel will be unblind.
That is still referring to national Israel (ie. real mortal Israelites on Earth), not a 'spiritualized Israel'.
Now, a couple of comments on "the fulness of the Gentiles be come in".
There are a few viewpoints on what this means.
The most common viewpoint is that it is referring to unbelieving Gentiles that become believers. This view implies there is a quota of believing Gentiles that must be met before the partial blindness is lifted from Israel.
Another viewpoint is that it is referring to the time Gentiles will trample Israel (have them underfoot, so to speak) until they are rescued and all those Gentile nations that came against them are defeated.
Thus, the completion (fulness) of Gentile rule over Israelites.
In other words, it is not the fulness (completion) of believing Gentiles coming that will end the blindness, but the fulness (completion) of Gentile control over the scattered people.
Another viewpoint is that it is referring to the time Gentiles will trample Israel (have them underfoot, so to speak) until they are rescued and all those Gentile nations that came against them are defeated.
Thus, the completion (fulness) of Gentile rule over Israelites.
In other words, it is not the fulness (completion) of believing Gentiles coming that will end the blindness, but the fulness (completion) of Gentile control over the scattered people.
One view has the Gentiles as the good guys coming to fulness.
One view has the Gentiles as the bad guys coming to fulness.
There are more viewpoints, but that gives you an idea of how divided the meaning can appear to folks.
But either way, Israel is still national Israel, and not a 'spiritualized Israel'.
Both, the blinded and the unblinded, were of physical Israel.
This will make the next verse clear as to what happens when that partial blindness ends ......
Romans 11 KJV
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
(26) And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
That last phrase "from Jacob" clears it up for us who the "all Israel" is.
It is Israel of the flesh, descendants of Jacob.
Interplanner
Well-known member
The grammar does not support the ending of the blindness. Actually it is saying it was retroactive: it has always been there because God's Israel never was the physical descendants en masse. It always was those who believed. You'll see this in Heb 11, too.
It was Judaism's mistake (and perhaps yours) to make it identified with the physical descendants, if you know some of the heated exchanges in the gospel accounts. that makes the Bible contradictory and skewed.
Interplanner
Well-known member
"Israel's vision" is restored in Christ; that's how the veil comes off, but D'ism invents another veil to deal with instead of the plain meaning. In the same way, it invents another good gospel smack in the middle of the passage that says there was only one.
Yes it does.
http://biblehub.com/greek/3779.htm
houtó and houtós, Strong's number 3779, "In this manner, in this way (fashion), in accordance with this description (i.e. corresponding to what follows); in keeping with; along this line."
Paul begins Romans 11: 26 by saying "In this way..." All Israel shall be saved. "In this way" refers to a statement in Romans 11: 25. Romans 11: 25 is saying that physical Israel, Israel of the physical bloodline is made up of those who are in πωρωσις and those who are not in πωρωσις. πωρωσις is Strong's 4457, pṓrōsis – hardness (from "pōros, a kind of marble, used later of a callus formed on fractured bones); (figuratively) callousness or hardness in general, originally petrifaction, hardness and then the result of this, i.e. metaphorically applied to organs of feeling, meaning insensibility, numbness, obtuseness, dulling of the faculty of perception, deadness."
In Romans 3 and Romans 4 Paul talks a lot about faith. In Galatians 3 Paul explains that Abraham believed God and this was accounted to him for righteousness. Paul then says those who have faith are the children of Abraham (Galatians 3: 7). In Galatians 3: 16 Paul teaches that the promise was not made to Abraham's seeds, but to one seed, Jesus Christ. "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.' Galatians 3: 26
In Romans 3: 3-4 Paul says "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
Romans 4: 9 says "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness."
Then in Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Paul tells us that there are two groups within the chosen physical bloodline, Israel which is just Israel of the flesh, and Israel of the promise, that is, Israel that has faith in Christ.
By "In this way" in Romans 11: 26 Paul is saying that all Israel is saved according to the two groups within the physical bloodline where one group has faith and the other groups does not have faith, and by non-Jews becoming a part of the group who have faith, which Paul calls the εθνων, ethnon.
The dispensationalists read Romans 11: 25-26 as saying that the Greek words αχρις ου το πληρωμα των εθνων εισελθη mean that the blindness to one part of physical Israel will end when the number of Gentiles intended to be saved are saved and then all of the chosen bloodline called Israel will be saved.
αχρις, Strong's number 891 means "as far as, up to, until, during."
"The grammar does not support the ending of the blindness. Actually it is saying it was retroactive: it has always been there because God's Israel never was the physical descendants en masse. It always was those who believed. You'll see this in Heb 11, too."
What is said above is that the remnant of Israel is the Israel of faith, and it is this Israel, which Paul acknowledges in the First Century as being the physical seed of Abraham (Romans 11: 1, as part of Romans 11: 1-5 on the remnant)
Romans 11: 25-26 does not say the blindness of one group,t he multitude, of the chosen physical bloodline from Abraham will end when the fullness of the Gentiles are saved. Romans 11: 17-20 say those of the bloodline who are in unbelief are cut off. "In this way" in Romans 11: 26 does not mean those cut off are brought back in, Romans 11: 23-24 does say that any of the bloodline who come to faith in Christ will be grafted in, and that means at any point in time before the end of Matthew 24: 14, when the Gospel will have been preached to all the nations, or all the peoples.
houtó and houtós, Strong's number 3779, "In this manner, in this way (fashion), in accordance with this description (i.e. corresponding to what follows); in keeping with; along this line."
Paul begins Romans 11: 26 by saying "In this way..." All Israel shall be saved. "In this way" refers to a statement in Romans 11: 25. Romans 11: 25 is saying that physical Israel, Israel of the physical bloodline is made up of those who are in πωρωσις and those who are not in πωρωσις. πωρωσις is Strong's 4457, pṓrōsis – hardness (from "pōros, a kind of marble, used later of a callus formed on fractured bones); (figuratively) callousness or hardness in general, originally petrifaction, hardness and then the result of this, i.e. metaphorically applied to organs of feeling, meaning insensibility, numbness, obtuseness, dulling of the faculty of perception, deadness."
In Romans 3 and Romans 4 Paul talks a lot about faith. In Galatians 3 Paul explains that Abraham believed God and this was accounted to him for righteousness. Paul then says those who have faith are the children of Abraham (Galatians 3: 7). In Galatians 3: 16 Paul teaches that the promise was not made to Abraham's seeds, but to one seed, Jesus Christ. "For ye are all the children of God by faith in Jesus Christ.' Galatians 3: 26
In Romans 3: 3-4 Paul says "For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged."
Romans 4: 9 says "Cometh this blessedness then upon the circumcision only, or upon the uncircumcision also? for we say that faith was reckoned to Abraham for righteousness."
Then in Romans 9: 6-8 Paul writes "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children: but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed."
Paul tells us that there are two groups within the chosen physical bloodline, Israel which is just Israel of the flesh, and Israel of the promise, that is, Israel that has faith in Christ.
By "In this way" in Romans 11: 26 Paul is saying that all Israel is saved according to the two groups within the physical bloodline where one group has faith and the other groups does not have faith, and by non-Jews becoming a part of the group who have faith, which Paul calls the εθνων, ethnon.
The dispensationalists read Romans 11: 25-26 as saying that the Greek words αχρις ου το πληρωμα των εθνων εισελθη mean that the blindness to one part of physical Israel will end when the number of Gentiles intended to be saved are saved and then all of the chosen bloodline called Israel will be saved.
αχρις, Strong's number 891 means "as far as, up to, until, during."
"The grammar does not support the ending of the blindness. Actually it is saying it was retroactive: it has always been there because God's Israel never was the physical descendants en masse. It always was those who believed. You'll see this in Heb 11, too."
What is said above is that the remnant of Israel is the Israel of faith, and it is this Israel, which Paul acknowledges in the First Century as being the physical seed of Abraham (Romans 11: 1, as part of Romans 11: 1-5 on the remnant)
Romans 11: 25-26 does not say the blindness of one group,t he multitude, of the chosen physical bloodline from Abraham will end when the fullness of the Gentiles are saved. Romans 11: 17-20 say those of the bloodline who are in unbelief are cut off. "In this way" in Romans 11: 26 does not mean those cut off are brought back in, Romans 11: 23-24 does say that any of the bloodline who come to faith in Christ will be grafted in, and that means at any point in time before the end of Matthew 24: 14, when the Gospel will have been preached to all the nations, or all the peoples.