So what came first in the order of occurrence, man's believing and repenting OR the saving act of God?
Rewarded According To Works Yet Saved by Grace
- Thread starter Samie
- Start date
God's Truth
New member
No one enters God's grace unless they do what His Son says to do.
Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life.
HELL
Entering and doing are human deeds, so how is that being saved by grace?
| Romans 11:6 KJV And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work. |
Well, well. Bee sting is not comparable to HELL. But it pays being bitten by bees in exchange for honeycombs, don't you think?
God's Truth
New member
No one said you do not have to obey anything anymore. Paul was speaking about not having to get circumcised and sacrifice animals, etc.
So what came first in the order of occurrence of events: Man's obeying OR the saving act of God?
I am the bee. I'm the tulipbee that hops from arminian Daisy flower to arminian daisy flower dropping off the tulip pollen. Without the Jesus pollen, the arminians would die thinking they are one of all or the world.
Circumcision got converted to infant baptism. Praise God I got sprinkled!
Whaaaat!!!??? Wait. Are you saying tulip pollen = Jesus pollen? If so, then dividing both sides of the equation by "pollen" leaves us with "tulip = Jesus"? But Jesus is not tulip, neither tulip is Jesus, therefore the statement tulip pollen equals Jesus pollen is not true.
Good thing, I am not an Arminian.
Tulip is the gospel. I also pollenate semi pelagians with God's word which comes from the Bible. I'm just a worker of the hive.
God's Truth
New member
You are having such a hard time with this. Jesus died for us, but no one enters God's grace without living faith that is faith with obedience.
Romans 5:2 through whom we have gained access by faith into this grace in which we now stand. And we boast in the hope of the glory of God.
God's Truth
New member
You do not get sprinkled without first obeying.
And I thought you're the one having a hard time directly responding to my question you purposely evade answering directly:
Again, What came first in the order of occurrence of events?:
1. Man's obeying
OR,
2. the saving act of God?
There I made it simpler for you. You can choose #1 or #2 for an answer. I'll wait.
God's Truth
New member
God's word isn't about tricking people to get them to say what you want so you can feel as if you proved a point.
You. will. not. enter. God's. grace. if. you. do. not. first. obey. and. believe.
You will not get around that, not matter how hard you try.
Believe Romans 5:2.
Thanks, GT. I won't press the issue further. At least I know you are not yet sure of where you stand, and pressing the issue would put you into a more confused state.
When you are sure of where you stand and have finally decided which came first between man's obeying and God's saving act, you can tell me, and we can discuss again.
For the time being, you can ask me whatever you like relative to the issue in this thread, and I would not respond the way you responded. Try it, brother. I'll wait.
For starters, I believe God's saving act came first before man's obeying. Any objection from you? If none, then you can keep silent; but if there is, then post it. I will gladly respond.
God's Truth
New member
You are falsely judging me.
Jesus died before you were born---but you were not saved before you were born. You had to do something to enter that grace of Jesus' death. You had to do more than just being born.
Do you understand now?
journey
New member
The Gospel of the Kingdom was given to the Jews, and it was under the law. More was required than just faith - works of the law.
Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and died for our sins for big reasons. Jesus Christ himself revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God to the Apostle Paul, and it included what changed after the Cross.
Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
I love the old hymn - Jesus Paid it All - all to Him I owe. We are now saved by faith through God's matchless Grace - Grace that we can't earn and will never deserve. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's a simple, childlike faith in the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not on the installment payment plan, nor is it by works that we can do. Jesus Christ did Pay it All at the Cross, and we have nothing worthy to add to His perfect and completed work at the Cross.
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We accept God's unspeakable Gift through simple faith plus nothing. God's Word tells us there are many things we SHOULD do after we are Saved, but we must know those things are not required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. There are additional rewards for good works if they are done for the right reasons (i.e. love for Jesus Christ out of a heart of appreciation). I give thanks that Salvation is simple enough for a child to understand.
Jesus Christ willingly went to the cross and died for our sins for big reasons. Jesus Christ himself revealed the Gospel of the Grace of God to the Apostle Paul, and it included what changed after the Cross.
Titus 3:4-7 KJV But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6 Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; 7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
1 Corinthians 15:1-4 KJV 1. Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2. By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3. For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4. And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:
I love the old hymn - Jesus Paid it All - all to Him I owe. We are now saved by faith through God's matchless Grace - Grace that we can't earn and will never deserve. Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the Word of God. It's a simple, childlike faith in the death, burial, and ressurection of Jesus Christ. Salvation is not on the installment payment plan, nor is it by works that we can do. Jesus Christ did Pay it All at the Cross, and we have nothing worthy to add to His perfect and completed work at the Cross.
Ephesians 2:8-10 KJV For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
We accept God's unspeakable Gift through simple faith plus nothing. God's Word tells us there are many things we SHOULD do after we are Saved, but we must know those things are not required for Salvation or to maintain Salvation. There are additional rewards for good works if they are done for the right reasons (i.e. love for Jesus Christ out of a heart of appreciation). I give thanks that Salvation is simple enough for a child to understand.
God's Truth
New member
You are already wrong. Jesus came with GRACE and TRUTH.
See John 1:17.
Faith was expected but NOT REQUIRED to obey the old law, it was not based on faith.
See Galatians 3:12.
It did NOT take faith to get circumcised. It did not take faith to do the other purification/ceremonial regulations.
The only things that changed at the cross is that it was finished. That is about Jesus fulfilling the Law and the Prophets. It is about Jesus shedding his blood for the NEW Covenant. It is about NOW ALL could come to Jesus to be saved.
See John 12:32; and Matthew 26:28 For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.
That is about Jesus washing us instead of the way it USED TO be. The people used to have to wash themselves. What don't you get about that?! The ceremonial/purification WORKS went on for over 1,600 years. Don't you understand that? Paul was a pharisee and reinforced those purification/ceremonial regulations! But now, through faith in Jesus' blood cleaning us---those WORKS no longer matter.
Believe and be baptised is a shout, a command, a will, an order that make elects willing. What He shouts will happen. Even the winds obey him. I must believe cause he made me willing by a command. He didn't ask me. He told me. He made me follow his command. No free will included. By nature and being a sinner, I'm not able to obey on my own. It would be impossible. It's possible for you under Satan but please note that Satan lying to you in case you didn't know. You're a liar anyway and try to fool the elects with your slick decieving words