ECT Reformed Theology

[dreadknought]

Absolutely NOTHING about man being chosen for salvation. NOTHING. You are a complete and utter moron to think it does.

The chosen have hope tord salvation, not certainty. Doom (like the pc game in the 90's I spect) and that hope, subsequent or lifelong, and it's consequence, faith..... is YHWH given. Hope and faith have an object..... an object obscured in the fall of Adam, mankinds federal head. Men are born with neither hope nor faith, only consciensce. An infants first move is away from the Creator.

 

[MaxGrit]

1 Corinthians 1
(ESV)

1 Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sosthenes,

2 To the church of God that is in Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:

3 Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

4 I give thanks to my God always for you because of the grace of God that was given you in Christ Jesus, 5 that in every way you were enriched in him in all speech and all knowledge— 6 even as the testimony about Christ was confirmed among you— 7 so that you are not lacking in any gift, as you wait for the revealing of our Lord Jesus Christ, 8 who will sustain you to the end, guiltless in the day of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 God is faithful, by whom you were called into the fellowship of his Son, Jesus Christ our Lord.

10 I appeal to you, brothers, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be united in the same mind and the same judgment. 11 For it has been reported to me by Chloe's people that there is quarreling among you, my brothers. 12 What I mean is that each one of you says, “I follow Paul,” or “I follow Apollos,” or “I follow Cephas,” or “I follow Christ.” 13 Is Christ divided? Was Paul crucified for you? Or were you baptized in the name of Paul? 14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 so that no one may say that you were baptized in my name. 16 (I did baptize also the household of Stephanas. Beyond that, I do not know whether I baptized anyone else.) 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize but to preach the gospel, and not with words of eloquent wisdom, lest the cross of Christ be emptied of its power.

18 For the word of the cross is folly to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved it is the power of God. 19 For it is written,

“I will destroy the wisdom of the wise,
and the discernment of the discerning I will thwart.”

20 Where is the one who is wise? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since, in the wisdom of God, the world did not know God through wisdom, it pleased God through the folly of what we preach to save those who believe. 22 For Jews demand signs and Greeks seek wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified, a stumbling block to Jews and folly to Gentiles, 24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

26 For consider your calling, brothers: not many of you were wise according to worldly standards, not many were powerful, not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose what is foolish in the world to shame the wise; God chose what is weak in the world to shame the strong; 28 God chose what is low and despised in the world, even things that are not, to bring to nothing things that are, 29 so that no human being might boast in the presence of God. 30 And because of him you are in Christ Jesus, who became to us wisdom from God, righteousness and sanctification and redemption, 31 so that, as it is written, “Let the one who boasts, boast in the Lord.”

 

[MaxGrit]

This sounds nice on the surface. But that claim is so often spoken of when it is just their own desire that drives them to do some things.
If the Holy Spirit truly had control of your body, then you would not still sin in the flesh.

2 Corinthians 12
(ESV)

6 though if I should wish to boast, I would not be a fool, for I would be speaking the truth; but I refrain from it, so that no one may think more of me than he sees in me or hears from me. 7 So to keep me from becoming conceited because of the surpassing greatness of the revelations, a thorn was given me in the flesh, a messenger of Satan to harass me, to keep me from becoming conceited. 8 Three times I pleaded with the Lord about this, that it should leave me. 9 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For the sake of Christ, then, I am content with weaknesses, insults, hardships, persecutions, and calamities. For when I am weak, then I am strong.

19 Have you been thinking all along that we have been defending ourselves to you? It is in the sight of God that we have been speaking in Christ, and all for your upbuilding, beloved. 20 For I fear that perhaps when I come I may find you not as I wish, and that you may find me not as you wish—that perhaps there may be quarreling, jealousy, anger, hostility, slander, gossip, conceit, and disorder. 21 I fear that when I come again my God may humble me before you, and I may have to mourn over many of those who sinned earlier and have not repented of the impurity, sexual immorality, and sensuality that they have practiced.

 

[Grosnick Marowbe]

The chosen have hope tord salvation, not certainty. Doom (like the pc game in the 90's I spect) and that hope, subsequent or lifelong, and it's consequence, faith..... is YHWH given. Hope and faith have an object..... an object obscured in the fall of Adam, mankinds federal head. Men are born with neither hope nor faith, only consciensce. An infants first move is away from the Creator.

You ought to take some classes on how to articulate your
thoughts a little better. Also, your attempt at wit needs an
overhaul!

 

[Lon]

Nope. It's a fact, based on the reformers claim to limited/definite atonement.

No one who holds to the teaching of a limited/definite atonement is saved. They are enemies of the cross and they consider the shed blood of Jesus to be worthless.

:nono: Here, take the test: Ask ANY Open Theist Mod on TOL, or their pastors or any MAD mod or their pastors. You are a minority (means 'cult' which is why you are on my ignore list). I just happened to read your post on another's response.

One guy did this with Knight already.

While I staunchly disagree with Calvinism, I disagree completely that they cannot be saved.

God says.... "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

If you accept Jesus into your heart you are saved. End of story.

An excellent discussion of the gospel there, btw. One of the better ones on TOL, imho.

 

[Doom]

:nono: Here, take the test: Ask ANY Open Theist Mod on TOL, or their pastors or any MAD mod or their pastors.

If "ANY" Mod , Open Thiest, Mid-Acts Dispy, etc., etc, believes that Jesus only died for some sins and some men, and not all sins and all men, then THEY have never believed the gospel, and ANY opinion YOU have on the matter is worthless.

You are a minority

Paul's gospel (delivered by the Lord Jesus Christ) that He died for OUR sins and believed by me, makes my view the correct view, and in the eyes of a hell-bound pervert, like you, who calls that "cultish", meaningless.

While a staunchly disagree with Calvinism, I disagree completely that they cannot be saved.

God says.... "if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved."

If you accept Jesus into your heart you are saved. End of story.

No one who denies that Jesus has died for OUR sins, has confessed the Lord Jesus. It's not possible. You cannot state that men can believe whatever they want about His once for ALL sacrifice and still say they believe the Gospel, because if man can believe anything they want and still be saved, then ALL men are saved, and that's not true, and I know you know it's not true.

You have reasons for disagreeing with Calvinism. You know that they preach a gospel that excludes all men in Christ's death. That is another gospel. No different than the Mormon's who exclude His identity.

 

[Lon]

If "ANY" Mod , Open Thiest, Mid-Acts Dispy, etc., etc, believes that Jesus only died for some sins and some men, and not all sins and all men, then THEY have never believed the gospel, and ANY opinion YOU have on the matter is worthless.

Yeah, but you never asked. You assumed. You quickly jumped to a conclusion without knowing me at all. It is one of those lumping all peoples things. It is VERY much a Cult mentality and you have it.

Paul's gospel (delivered by the Lord Jesus Christ) that He died for OUR sins and believed by me, makes my view the correct view, and in the eyes of a hell-bound pervert, like you, who calls that "cultish", meaningless.

Sure, just as your cult fanaticism is meaningless to me. I didn't say you were of a cult mindset because of the above however. I agree. You never even asked. You assumed. All cults do that. It is why you are on my ignore list and going back on it here shortly. You are a sloppy theologian, but worse, a hasty cultist for MAD. There are a few of them on here, you are one of them. Thankfully you are far and few between. Are you 'hell-bound' for it? You'll have to take that up with Our Lord Christ Jesus. You seem to want to judge men's hearts before you've even asked. AND just as a reminder, you never asked me, just assumed. Someone would 'think' you just want people to go to hell. Such is the earmark of a cult. You have a cult mentality. Perhaps persecution of MAD has done this to you, but you need to get out of this mindset. I believe it is sin. You never asked.

No one who denies that Jesus has died for OUR sins, has confessed the Lord Jesus. It's not possible. If you want to state that men can believe whatever they want about His once for ALL sacrifice and still say they believe the Gospel, because if man can believe anything they want and still be saved, then ALL men are saved, and that's not true, and I know you know it's not true.

I never did. You never asked. Go read the thread, I was in this exact same discussion with Ghost. You and he are two peas in the same pod.

You have reasons for disagreeing with Calvinism. You know that they preach a gospel that excludes all men in Christ's death. That is another gospel. No different than the Mormon's who exclude His identity.

It is a weird mentality, but you never asked, and you don't care. That's clear here.

 

[dreadknought]

Paul quantified the atonement by using the words "chosen," "elect," "many" (vs "all") and "church":

Ephesians 1:3-12, 5:25-26; Romans 5:19, 8:32-34; Titus 2:14; Acts 20:228




I believe Paul would be the first to rebuke you MADists for cursing people. No sinner is in position or possesses the right to curse another. Not even Paul.

Not even Paul. Those in the body who have misrepresented Paul aren't going to be comfortable. 1 Cor 3:13. We have the solid ground.

 

[Doom]

Yeah, but you never asked. You assumed.

Go buy a dictionary and look up the word "if".

You are a moron Lon. (No "assumption" there).

 

[Doom]

Those in the body who have misrepresented Paul aren't going to be comfortable.

Then why do you continue to do it?

We have the solid ground.

You don't even know Christ, so you have nothing to stand on.

Your interpretation of Eph 1:3-12 proves it.

 

[Lon]

Go buy a dictionary and look up the word "if".

You are a moron Lon. (No "assumption" there).

Your neg rep didn't say 'if.'

You are back on ignore for this, however. We are done.

 

[Doom]

Your neg rep didn't say 'if.'

You are back on ignore for this, however. We are done.

You didn't quote the "neg rep", you moron.

What a complete idiot.

 

[Nang]

Your neg rep didn't say 'if.'

You are back on ignore for this, however. We are done.

Doom is the Ghost from the past . . .

 

[dreadknought]

Then why do you continue to do it? You don't even know Christ, so you have nothing to stand on.

Your interpretation of Eph 1:3-12 proves it.

Thank you, omniscient one for your perfect........... nonsense. Is it Doom, or Door?

 

[Ktoyou]

2 Corinthians 12
(ESV)

Cut and past is not dialogue, better stop it.

 

[Nang]

Cut and past is not dialogue, better stop it.

Heir thinks it is . . especially when she adds her commentary to it.

Why not correct her bad practices, instead of picking on a newbie?

 

[MaxGrit]

Cut and past is not dialogue, better stop it.

All depends on if:

1) you are saved by grace alone by faith alone.

Or if

2) you decide to choose Jesus by your own work of faith.

The distinction:

1) Grace --> Regeneration by the Holy Spirit (Born again by the Spirit) --> Faith --> Works of the Spirit (Sealed with the Holy Spirit as guarantee of salvation in Christ Jesus)

2) Works of the Flesh [Carnal Works] --> Dead Faith [Carnal Faith, Dead in the Spirit, Dead Works yields Dead Faith, Works of the Flesh is of the Flesh] (Never Regenerated by the Holy Spirit, Dead in the Spirit, Not Sealed by the Holy Spirit, Not Saved)

 

[MaxGrit]

OSAS is definitely true for anyone saved by grace alone by faith alone (category 1). And not of works, lest anyone should boast.

What do you do if you're Arminian and think you might be in category 2 (carnal faith)?
- Seek the Lord Christ Jesus and Believe in Him [Carnal Works]
- The Holy Spirit, glory be to Him, will choose whomever He pleases for Regeneration.

Are you saved?
- Love God with all your Heart, all your Soul, and all your Might (only the Regenerated/Living is able, for this Love is from the Holy Spirit).

- Thus, it is written
2 Peter 1
(ESV)

1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

2 May grace and peace be multiplied to you in the knowledge of God and of Jesus our Lord.

3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence, 4 by which he has granted to us his precious and very great promises, so that through them you may become partakers of the divine nature, having escaped from the corruption that is in the world because of sinful desire. 5 For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, 6 and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness, 7 and godliness with brotherly affection, and brotherly affection with love. 8 For if these qualities are yours and are increasing, they keep you from being ineffective or unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. 9 For whoever lacks these qualities is so nearsighted that he is blind, having forgotten that he was cleansed from his former sins.

10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

James 2
5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

8 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!

 

[MaxGrit]

Romans 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls—

Matthew 24:22 And if those days had not been cut short, no human being would be saved. But for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.

Matthew 24:24 For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.

Matthew 24:31 And he will send out his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

Romans 8:33 Who shall bring any charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies.

Romans 11:7 What then? Israel failed to obtain what it was seeking. The elect obtained it, but the rest were hardened,

2 Timothy 2:10 Therefore I endure everything for the sake of the elect, that they also may obtain the salvation that is in Christ Jesus with eternal glory.

 

[MaxGrit]

2 Peter 1 (ESV)

To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
3 His divine power has granted to us all things that pertain to life and godliness, through the knowledge of him who called us to his own glory and excellence,
10 Therefore, brothers, be all the more diligent to confirm your calling and election, for if you practice these qualities you will never fall. 11 For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

James 2

5 Listen, my beloved brothers, has not God chosen those who are poor in the world to be rich in faith and heirs of the kingdom, which he has promised to those who love him?

8 But someone will say, “You have faith and I have works.” Show me your faith apart from your works, and I will show you my faith by my works. 19 You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe—and shudder!