Reformed Theology: Somewhere Between..

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1. God, from all eternity, did, by the most wise and holy counsel of his own will, freely, and unchangeably ordain whatsoever comes to pass: yet so, as thereby neither is God the author of sin, nor is violence offered to the will of the creatures; nor is the liberty or contingency of second causes taken away, but rather established. WCF Article 3.1​
This was written by a group that struggled valiantly to figure out something--and were unsuccessful. I think they were unsuccessful because of a bad presupposition--the presupposition that God knows the future exhaustively--tied to a good presupposition--that God has the power to do whatever He wants to do.

Ordain means to "order" or "decree". If God decrees something, it is most certainly going to come to pass--no one could keep it from doing so.
Why do you ignore the part that states it is God who establishes the freedom of the will? Is it beyond considering that God created everything by mere speaking, is somehow not able to decree to create men with the liberty of spontaneity such that men are morally responsible? Or is it that you just don't believe it to be possible unless God explains how He did so?

AMR
 

Derf

Well-known member
Why do you ignore the part that states it is God who establishes the freedom of the will? Is it beyond considering that God created everything by mere speaking, is somehow not able to decree to create men with the liberty of spontaneity such that men are morally responsible? Or is it that you just don't believe it to be possible unless God explains how He did so?

AMR

Hi AMR!
I do believe He created men with the liberty of spontaneity, but I'm suggesting that the words of the confession oppose each other. If God made man to be able to choose freely, and then He changes the will of man to choose a certain thing, is that not violence done to the will? What else is "violence offered to the will" if not a changing of the will without permission?

I'm not saying I have to know how God does everything, but I'm saying it is a contradiction to say He does something that He doesn't do. Kind of like saying He lies and then saying He doesn't lie (reminds me of the Hezekiah passage).
 
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Hi AMR!
I do believe He created men with the liberty of spontaneity, but I'm suggesting that the words of the confession oppose each other. If God made man to be able to choose freely, and then He changes the will of man to choose a certain thing, is that not violence done to the will? What else is "violence offered to the will" if not a changing of the will without permission?
You will have to unpack "He changes the will of man to choose a certain thing" a wee bit more for this to proceed. There is not a single instance in Scripture that supports the notion of God making someone do something that they were not so inclined to do, for if they were not so disposed, they would not have done what they did.

AMR
 

Derf

Well-known member
You will have to unpack "He changes the will of man to choose a certain thing" a wee bit more for this to proceed. There is not a single instance in Scripture that supports the notion of God making someone do something that they were not so inclined to do, for if they were not so disposed, they would not have done what they did.

AMR

Really? So you're saying that men are self-inclined to seek after God so that God does not have to somehow change their will to get them to come to Christ? I'm sure your Calvinist compatriots are bemoaning the loss of such a staunch ally as you walk toward the Arminian camp.
 

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Really? So you're saying that men are self-inclined to seek after God so that God does not have to somehow change their will to get them to come to Christ? I'm sure your Calvinist compatriots are bemoaning the loss of such a staunch ally as you walk toward the Arminian camp.

You are laboring under some poor understandings of regeneration as we Reformed speak of it. I doubt those that seriously wear the label "Reformed" are bemoaning anything here other than your misunderstanding. For you raise up a common objection that has been answered time and again since the days long before Dordt and beyond.

The unregenerate (those in Adam) are spiritually dead, unable to seek after the righteousness of God, for they are only morally able to sin more or sin less. The will only determines a man towards that which the man himself thinks is good. They choose to sin more or sin less because in the choosing they think they are choosing to do "good". Accordingly, they deserve nothing but God's justice.

Those whom God, by His manifest mercy, grace, and own counsel, taking no account of the merit of another, quickens by the power of the Holy Spirit, have their moral abilities changed (Ezekiel 36:26) such that they are now able to sin or not to sin. At the very moment of their regeneration those so quickened will believe by the faculty of their own liberty of spontaneity, for God has granted them the very faith they now cling to. They are not forced to believe, for the quickened genuinely are inclined to believe, and indeed will believe.

AMR
 

Derf

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You are laboring under some poor understandings of regeneration as we Reformed speak of it. I doubt those that seriously wear the label "Reformed" are bemoaning anything here other than your misunderstanding. For you raise up a common objection that has been answered time and again since the days long before Dordt and beyond.

The unregenerate (those in Adam) are spiritually dead, unable to seek after the righteousness of God, for they are only morally able to sin more or sin less. The will only determines a man towards that which the man himself thinks is good. They choose to sin more or sin less because in the choosing they think they are choosing to do "good". Accordingly, they deserve nothing but God's justice.

Those whom God, by His manifest mercy, grace, and own counsel, taking no account of the merit of another, quickens by the power of the Holy Spirit, have their moral abilities changed (Ezekiel 36:26) such that they are now able to sin or not to sin. At the very moment of their regeneration those so quickened will believe by the faculty of their own liberty of spontaneity, for God has granted them the very faith they now cling to. They are not forced to believe, for the quickened genuinely are inclined to believe, and indeed will believe.

AMR
Yeah, that's what I was saying. God "grants" them, with irresistible grace, and makes them to be in a state that is a higher state than Adam and Eve, such that they will all believe.

Those that are dead in Adam are incapable of seeking after God, and God makes them not only capable but unable to keep from seeking after God.

Before our quickening, we are not capable of belief, nor of wanting it, and after that quickening, we are not capable of unbelief (not "doubt" but "unbelief") nor of not wanting it. So if God does something to us that we don't want Him to do (we're incapable of wanting Him to do it), that causes us to want Him to do it without recourse, don't you think that "offers violence to the will"? What is "the will" if it's not what we "want"?

When you say
There is not a single instance in Scripture that supports the notion of God making someone do something that they were not so inclined to do, for if they were not so disposed, they would not have done what they did.
I think you are correct. My point is that the WCF disagrees with you, and you seem to be saying that they were wrong. So, bemoan away, all ye Reformed, at the loss of so great an ally!
 
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OCTOBER23

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DERF THE NERF

Don't worry if you don't get my posts.

I have studied the Bible diligently for 45 years and am Way ahead of these posters.

See you in the soon coming Kingdom at Pentecost 2021....:cloud9::cloud9::rapture::cloud9::cloud9:
 

Grosnick Marowbe

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DERF THE NERF

Don't worry if you don't get my posts.

I have studied the Bible diligently for 45 years and am Way ahead of these posters.

See you in the soon coming Kingdom :rapture::cloud9::rapture:

45 year's is not even a drop in the ocean compared to eternity. Are
you a member of the Body of Christ? Give us a glimpse of how you
became a child of God, through a short Testimony?
 

Derf

Well-known member
DERF THE NERF

Don't worry if you don't get my posts.

I have studied the Bible diligently for 45 years and am Way ahead of these posters.

See you in the soon coming Kingdom at Pentecost 2021....:cloud9::cloud9::rapture::cloud9::cloud9:

Not to be equating myself with Jesus, but he had to deal with men that had studied God's word all their lives, but they didn't communicate the scriptures to the people that needed it, instead they put up roadblocks to the scriptures. Jesus was able to communicate to people in a way that they understood, at least when He wanted them to understand.

Moses was 80 years old before he was able to communicate effectively with his people. Hopefully you won't wait that long.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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Before our quickening, we are not capable of belief, nor of wanting it, and after that quickening, we are not capable of unbelief (not "doubt" but "unbelief") nor of wanting it. So if God does something to us that we don't want Him to do (we're incapable of wanting Him to do it), that causes us to want Him to do it without recourse, don't you think that "offers violence to the will"? What is "the will" if it's not what we "want"?

I just think you misunderstand the WCF terribly.

The "we" here is "us". Are you denying your present salvific state is not something you wanted? Are you claiming you would rather have been left to your previous state of not wanting? Of course you are not. For if you were, per you own words, no one would be saved, for the lost do not want to be saved. Wants and desires spring from the mind's willing. Regeneration changes (not replaces) the fallen will, and our wants and desires for the righteousness of God naturally follow and we choose willingly (according to our will).

As to the WCF's "violence to the will and so on...", violence is stating that that God does not do away with the will.

The first part of the statement is directed against Arminian accusations that Calvinists don't believe in free will. The Reformed do believe in free will, but not the same kind of free will that Arminians and Socinians believe. They believe that free will means the ability of contrary choice: I can choose to do an action or not to do it. I can choose to please God or not to please God.

Calvinists do not believe in this kind of free will. Rather, we believe that free will means that a person can do anything that it is within that person's nature to do. If a person is a sinner, then he is not free to please God. Rather, he is free to make free choice among several sinful options. Obviously, if the Arminian definition of free will were true, then God is not free, since God cannot sin, which He would be able to do if He had the power of contrary choice. In other words, free will is defined by the character of the person.

The second part of that statement has to do with rejecting hyper-Calvinism, which states that there is really no need for evangelism (for instance), since God will convert that person anyway. This really does make people into robots. The correct interpretation of God's sovereignty is that He uses any means that He chooses in order to accomplish His desire, including missionaries, etc. That means us. Therefore, we (and the means of grace) are the secondary causes, while God is the primary cause. God's sovereignty therefore works through secondary causes sometimes (actually, most of the time), and without secondary causes sometimes (as in miracles). But the latter does not deny the former.

Whereas the Reformed dilute nothing about God, granting Him all which He lays claim to in Scripture, knowing all things, past, present, and future, and able to dispose of all He created per His own pleasure, graciously granting some faith, withholding the grant from others who are quite dead in their sinful willfulness.

The decree of God about the permission of sin does not infringe the liberty of man's will. For sin does not follow the decree by a necessity of co-action or compulsion, which indeed would destroy human liberty; but by a necessity of infallibility, which is very consistent with the decree. It is sufficient unto human liberty, or the freedom of man's will, that a man act without all constraint, and out of choice. Now, this is not taken away by the decree. Men sin as freely as if there were no decree, and yet as infallibly as if there were no liberty. And men sin, not to fulfill God's decree, which is hidden from them, but to serve and gratify their vile lusts and corrupt affections.

God shows what belongs to him and what belongs to us, and that we should mind our duty, and not busy and perplex ourselves about impertinencies. Whether a specific man be elected or not elected, is a secret that God never discloses to an unbeliever; but that we should believe on Christ is no secret. This is a duty clearly revealed and enjoined by the Gospel.

It is our duty to look to God's commands, and not to his decrees; to our own duty, and not to God's purposes. The decrees of God are a vast ocean, into which many possibly have curiously pried to their own horror and despair; but few or none have ever pried into them to their own profit and satisfaction. Our specific election is not written in particular in the word of God; but our duty is plainly set down there. If men conscientiously perform their duty, this is the way to come to the knowledge of their election.

Men do not pry into the decrees of God in other things, but do what they know to be incumbent upon them as their duty. And certainly this same prying about the hows and the whys of the decree is as unreasonable for this topic we are discussing.

When you are dangerously sick, and the physician tells you, that unless you take such and such medicines, your case is desperate; you do not use this reasoning:

Well, if God has decreed my recovery, I will certainly be restored to my health, whether I take that course of drugs, etc., or not.

No you presently fall in with the advice given you, and make use of the means prescribed for your health.

AMR
 

Derf

Well-known member
I just think you misunderstand the WCF terribly.

The "we" here is "us". Are you denying your present salvific state is not something you wanted? Are you claiming you would rather have been left to your previous state of not wanting? Of course you are not. For if you were, per you own words, no one would be saved, for the lost do not want to be saved. Wants and desires spring from the mind's willing. Regeneration changes (not replaces) the fallen will, and our wants and desires for the righteousness of God naturally follow and we choose willingly (according to our will).

As to the WCF's "violence to the will and so on...", violence is stating that that God does not do away with the will.

The first part of the statement is directed against Arminian accusations that Calvinists don't believe in free will. The Reformed do believe in free will, but not the same kind of free will that Arminians and Socinians believe. They believe that free will means the ability of contrary choice: I can choose to do an action or not to do it. I can choose to please God or not to please God.

Calvinists do not believe in this kind of free will. Rather, we believe that free will means that a person can do anything that it is within that person's nature to do. If a person is a sinner, then he is not free to please God. Rather, he is free to make free choice among several sinful options. Obviously, if the Arminian definition of free will were true, then God is not free, since God cannot sin, which He would be able to do if He had the power of contrary choice. In other words, free will is defined by the character of the person.
Just got a few minutes...
I question your definition of "violence". If "violence" only means "doing away with", then assault and battery is not violence, and domestic violence is not violence, ironically.

If you say violence to the will only includes doing away with the will, then God can wrench it around as much as He pleases, and as long as there is a will remaining--even if He has essentially replaced the original will with a completely different one, then He has done no violence to it. Your definitions leave something to be desired.

I think the same thing was going on when we talked about sovereignty. You defined it as something that was completely unlike anything we have any knowledge of here on earth. Yet the word comes from our experiences here on earth, and so must make sense in light of what we are trying to describe, like the things we describe here on earth. If we want to say that God always gets His way and does everything to make sure that happens, then fine, we can say that, but that's not what sovereignty is in our experience.

Violence has a fairly well-understood meaning, and murder is not the only kind of violence. So, too, violence to the will does not just mean murder, or complete eradication of the will, but a changing of the will against the person's will is certainly a candidate for violence of the will.

I'm not saying God could never do that--in fact I think it's necessary to some degree, just like the man who cried "help my unbelief". But the WCF is saying that He never does. Then the WCF also says God, through no desire on a man's part, changes the man's desire to be what God wanted for him.

That seems incongruous at best, and internally incompatible at worst.

If we redefine everyday words to mean something completely different, how are we going to communicate the gospel to others? Aren't we really just reliving the tower of Babel dispersion instead of bringing people together?
 

OCTOBER23

New member
DERF THE Disputer said,

If you say violence to the will only includes doing away with the will, then God can wrench it around as much as He pleases, and as long as there is a will remaining--even if He has essentially replaced the original will with a completely different one, then He has done no violence to it.

IS DERF TRYING TO MAKE GOD A LIAR....????????

What are your scriptures proving your hypothesis ????
 

Derf

Well-known member
DERF THE Disputer said,

If you say violence to the will only includes doing away with the will, then God can wrench it around as much as He pleases, and as long as there is a will remaining--even if He has essentially replaced the original will with a completely different one, then He has done no violence to it.

IS DERF TRYING TO MAKE GOD A LIAR....????????

What are your scriptures proving your hypothesis ????

eh? Did you read my post? I was trying to point out that AMR was saying. Do i need scriptures to prove what AMR says?
 

Derf

Well-known member
Hi AMR. I hope you had a good weekend, and enjoyed worshiping our Lord together with the saints. I've pared down your post to help me concentrate on a little at a time. Hope that's ok.

I just think you misunderstand the WCF terribly.
...

The first part of the statement is directed against Arminian accusations that Calvinists don't believe in free will. The Reformed do believe in free will, but not the same kind of free will that Arminians and Socinians believe. They believe that free will means the ability of contrary choice: I can choose to do an action or not to do it. I can choose to please God or not to please God.
So in your understanding, Adam and Eve were free to either eat of the wrong tree or not eat of the wrong tree? At the time they did not have a sin nature that made them choose the wrong tree.

Now you say God decreed that they eat of the wrong tree, but not that they were forced to do so, rather that they wanted to do so, correct?

But God decreed the eating not by knowing ahead of time what they would do, correct? (Ref WCF 3-2 "yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass
upon such conditions.")

So God decreed something not because He foresaw their desire, nor because their nature led them to it. Why then did they eat of the tree? If the answer is "because God decreed it", then God is the author of sin. Yet we know that God is not the author of sin (WCF 3-1).

You can't claim "the secret things of God", because I'm asking about Adam and Eve's actions, not God's.
 

Ask Mr. Religion

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But God decreed the eating not by knowing ahead of time what they would do, correct? (Ref WCF 3-2 "yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass
upon such conditions.")
The statement from the WCF is contra Arminian notions that God looks down the corridors of time, sees what His creatures will decide and then rubber-stamps (ratifies, predestines) that decision, all in order to preserve Arminian ideas of man's free-will, viewed as sacrosanct.

God’s knowledge is that perfection of God whereby He, in an entirely unique manner, knows Himself and all things possible and actual in one eternal and most simple act.

We distinguish between God’s necessary knowledge and His free knowledge. Necessary knowledge is the knowledge which God has of Himself and of all things possible, a knowledge resting on the consciousness of His omnipotence. The free knowledge of God is the knowledge which He has of all things actual, that is, of things that existed in the past, that exist in the present, or that will exist in the future. It is founded on God's infinite knowledge of His own all-comprehensive and unchangeable eternal purpose (God's decree), and is called free knowledge, because it is determined by a concurrent act of God's will.

In other words, God's decree establishes what He knows about actualities. Some call this knowledge "foreknowledge", without carefully qualifying what they mean. Actually foreknowledge is not knowledge that God knows before something.

God knows actualities because He has ordained (decreed). In the ordination resides the certainty of what God knows about all things actual.

In Scripture, when we encounter "foreknowledge" it actually means something more than just mere factual knowledge, rather it means "to know" in much like the marital sense of intimacy, as in Adam knew Eve and she bore him children. God's foreknowledge, properly used, is actually God's setting His preferences upon another, God's love before time. For example, see Ex. 33:17; Deut. 9:24; Hos. 8:4; Amos 3:2; Matt. 7:23; John 10:14; 1 Cor. 8:3; 2 Tim. 2:19. In fact, foreknowledge is never used in Scripture in connection with events or actions; instead, it always has reference to persons. It is persons God is said to "foreknow," not the actions of those persons. See Acts 2:23; Romans 8:29-30; Romans 11:2; 1 Peter 1:2.

If God were to "peek" down the corridors of time, per Arminianism/Romanism, to "know", then God's knowledge is dependent, contingent. God's knowledge then is something outside of Himself, contrary to the attributes of an independent, omniscient being.

God's decree is not the proximate cause of what His creatures will choose to do based upon their liberty of spontaneity. In fact, it is God that has decreed that they actually possess this liberty. Out of this God decreed liberty springs the creature's own willing, choosing, and doing, for they alone are the proximate causes of what they so do within their liberty of spontaneity.

As the some of the previously cited verses teach, God’s foreknowledge is not causative, rather, something else lies behind it antecedently, and that something is God's own sovereign decree. Our Lord was "delivered by the (1) determinate counsel and (2) foreknowledge of God." (Acts 2:23). As I noted above, God's "counsel" (decree) is the ground of His foreknowledge. Likewise in Romans 8:29. That verse opens with the word "for," which signals to us to look back to what immediately precedes. What, then, does the previous verse say? It says this: "all things work together for good to them. . . .who are the called according to His purpose." Hence, God’s foreknowledge is based upon His purpose or decree (see also Psalm 2:7).

Given the Scriptural focus of foreknowledge upon an intimate preference upon persons, we can say God "foreknows" because He has elected. This rightly removes the ground or cause of election from outside the creature, and places it within God’s own sovereign will. God purposed in Himself to elect a certain people, not because of anything good in them or from them, either actual or foreseen, but solely out of His own mere pleasure. Hence the wording in the WCF.

Let's say I were to grant, for the sake of the argument, the Arminian/Romanist view that God "peeked ahead" and that this is a "foreknowledge" that some people would believe in Christ and be saved, and others would not believe in Christ and perish in their sins. This would still establish the Reformed doctrine of predestination. Why? Well, with this "foreknowledge", God still chose to create the world, so that the salvation of some and damnation of others manifestly rests on God's choice. The Arminian and Romanist arguments from "foreknowledge" actually accomplishes nothing. Rather these arguments only push the issue of divine choice back another step.

Highly recommended viewing:
http://www.ligonier.org/learn/conferences/orlando_2004_national_conference/omniscience-of-god/

AMR
 
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Derf

Well-known member
The statement from the WCF is contra Arminian notions that God looks down the corridors of time, sees what His creatures will decide and then rubber-stamps (ratifies, predestines) that decision, all in order to preserve Arminian ideas of man's free-will, viewed as sacrosanct.

God’s knowledge is that perfection of God whereby He, in an entirely unique manner, knows Himself and all things possible and actual in one eternal and most simple act.

...

The Arminian and Romanist arguments from "foreknowledge" actually accomplishes nothing. Rather these arguments only push the issue of divine choice back another step.

AMR
I think I agree with most of what you've said here (with perhaps the exception of Him knowing all things possible and actual in one act. I don't know of scripture to support that.) But I'm not arguing for/from an Arminian (or Romanist) perspective. I'm trying to show a defect in the Reformed perspective.

The gist of your post, I think, is that you agree with me that:
Derf said:
But God decreed the eating not by knowing ahead of time what they would do, correct? (Ref WCF 3-2 "yet hath he not decreed anything because he foresaw it as future, or as that which would come to pass upon such conditions.")

What about: that He did not know what they would do because of their nature, since their nature was not sinful yet?
 

Derf

Well-known member
What about: that He did not know what they would do because of their nature, since their nature was not sinful yet?

Just to clarify, I'm not saying here that He didn't know what they would do, but, assuming He knew what they would do, that their nature was not the reason He knew (or "the means of His knowing", perhaps).
 

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What about: that He did not know what they would do because of their nature, since their nature was not sinful yet?

The decree of God about the permission of sin does not infringe the liberty of man's will. For sin does not follow the decree by a necessity of co-action or compulsion, which indeed would destroy human liberty; but by a necessity of infallibility, which is very consistent with the decree. It is sufficient unto human liberty, or the freedom of man's will, that a man act without all constraint, and out of choice. Now, this is not taken away by the decree. Men sin as freely as if there were no decree, and yet as infallibly as if there were no liberty. And men sin, not to fulfill God's decree, which is hidden from them, but to serve and gratify their vile lusts and corrupt affections.

The Jews, so far as their own free agency was concerned, might have broken Christ's bones; yet in reality it was not possible for them to have done so, for it was written, "A bone of Him shall not be broken," (Psalms 34:20; John 19:36). God's decree does not take away man's liberty; and in the fall Adam freely exercised the natural inclinations of his will.

So, yes, of course God knows. God knows because He has ordained (decreed) the actuality. How else would God infallibly know?

God is the primary efficient cause of man’s actions. Man is the secondary efficient cause of his actions. Therefore, there are two efficient causes of human actions. Man’s "free will" (the liberty of spontaneity) piggybacks on the free will of God.

Two propositions result from this:

1. Adam ate the apple of his own free will.
2. God decreed that Adam would eat the apple of his own free will.

Adam was able to sin and able not to sin, but he did not yet have a sin nature. This is quite important: His nature was not neutral. There was nothing in his nature that in any way prompted him to sin; rather, his nature was righteous and he walked in righteous. He was not yet glorified however and Adam had the capability of sinning (and did), but we must not be mistaken about what this meant for him.

This did not mean that Adam was confronted with all sorts of temptations to sin or situations in which he had to choose not to sin before his encounter with the devil: mutable, earthy, Adam walked in righteousness, according to his nature, until he was confronted with Satan's temptation and succumbed. In fact all sin was comprehended in this sin, that is, that Adam sinned in every way by sinning in this way.

God does not know this particular evil as merely a possible evil, but as an actual evil because He decreed it to be so. It is not the case that God is the efficient cause and Adam is the instrumental cause of Adam’s sin. Both Adam and God are the efficient causes of Adam’s eating of the apple. Adam is not the instrument of God’s sinful action. Rather God is the efficient cause of Adam's free action (a freedom which is good, so established by a perfectly good God's decree), which results in the sin of Adam.

No doubt it may then be asked, If there are two efficient causes of Adam’s eating the apple, why is the primary efficient cause (God) not responsible for the sin, while the secondary efficient cause (Adam) is responsible for the sin?

The proper answer follows:

The motive which God has in actively permitting sin and the motive which man has in committing sin are radically different. Many are deceived in these issues because they fail to consider that God wills righteously those things which men do wickedly.

But we must always remind ourselves that God contracts no defilement or criminality from such agency. God is just in all His ways, and holy in all His works. While everything that occurs in God’s universe finds its account in God's positive ordering and active concurrence, yet the moral quality of the deed, considered in itself, is rooted in the moral character of the subordinate agent (Adam), acting in the circumstances and under the motives operative in each instance. God is not the author (the doer) of sin. Sin is embraced in His ordaining; it is accomplished in His providence. Yet Adam's sin and all sin is embraced in His decree and effected in His providence in such a way as to ensure that blame and guilt attach to the perpetrators of wrong and to them alone.

Blame attaches to actions, and actions are characterized by intentions. The truth of propositions 1 and 2 above includes the fact that Adam and God perform quite different actions:

1. Adam intentionally eats a fruit; God does not eat a fruit.
2. Adam knowingly breaks a divine command; God does not break one of His own commands.
3. God commanded that Adam should not eat the fruit; God did not command that He should not ordain (decree) that Adam should eat the fruit.

A clear biblical locus classicus for this sort of dual agency is the story of Joseph in Genesis... where Joseph says, “you intended it for evil, but God intended it for good."

Even if it cannot be shown how it is that God and man can be the cause of free actions, it does not follow that it is a contradiction. Moreso, per His decree to establish the liberty of spontaneity, God is required to cause free actions. God does not simply cause the existence of free will apart from the actions of free will. God’s causing (necessarily or freely or contingently) the acts of free will is God’s providential sustaining of human free will (liberty of spontaneity). This is what it means by man’s free will piggybacks on God’s free will.

Nor is it the case that God’s free will overrides man’s free will. God does not overpower or compete with man’s free will. Again, the existence of human free will depends on God’s causing not just the fact of free will, but the acts of free will. That is how God sustains free will. For if God did not do so, humans would not be free creatures. God wills sinful actions on the part of humans conditionally in order to attain the good of free will.

At this point I can hear the canards in the TOL aisles. “God is a despot!” Instead of emotionalism and appeals to the crowd for effect, let’s think a wee bit more about this. While God’s sovereignty is universal and absolute, it is not the sovereignty of blind power, instead that power is coupled with God’s infinite wisdom, love, and holiness. When this doctrine is understood properly, it is reassuring and comforting. Would we prefer to have our affairs in the infinite power, love, and holiness of God’s hands or have our lives left to chance, fate, irrevocable natural law, or our own short-sighted and perverted selves? "We ourselves have had the sentence of death within ourselves, that we should not trust in ourselves, but in God who raiseth the dead," (2 Corinthians 1:9).

Persons who reject God's sovereignty should seriously consider what alternatives they have left.

The open theist's idea which assumes that the serious intentions of God in some way and in some cases can at least be defeated, and that man, who is not only a creature but a sinful creature, can exercise veto power over the plans of Almighty God, is in striking contrast with the Scriptural idea of His immeasurable exaltation by which God is removed from all the weaknesses of humanity. That the plans of men are not always executed is due to a lack of power, or a lack of wisdom; but since God is unlimited in these and all other resources, no unforeseen emergencies can arise, and to Him the causes for change have no existence. To suppose that God’s plans fail and that God strives to no effect, is to reduce God to the level of His creatures. Power without knowledge is dangerous. Knowledge without power is weak. God is neither dangerous nor weak.

Since God's knowledge of all actualities is infallibly complete, God knows the destiny of every person, not merely before the person has made his choice in this life, but from eternity. And since God knows their destiny equally vividly to creating, and proceeds to create, it is clear that both the saved and the lost fulfill God’s plan for them; for if He did not plan that any particular ones should be lost, God could at least refrain from creating the lost.

The Arminian, Romanist, and openist arguments, if they were valid, would disprove both God's foreknowing and ordaining. And since they prove too much I must conclude that they prove nothing at all.

AMR
 
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