beloved57
Well-known member
All without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ while they're enemies and unbelievers per Rom 5:10 because many as enemies and unbelievers are condemned already and under God's wrath John 3:18,36 !
Reconciled to God while enemies !
- Thread starter beloved57
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All without exception were not reconciled to God by the death of Christ while they're enemies and unbelievers per Rom 5:10 because many as enemies and unbelievers are condemned already and under God's wrath John 3:18,36 !
B57, you still here? Practically nobody agrees with anything you have
to say! And, you're annoying as well! Of course, you already knew that!
to say! And, you're annoying as well! Of course, you already knew that!
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Paul's words speak of the reconciliation of the WORLD:
"Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation, namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God" (2 Cor.5:18-20).
Anyone is condemned when he does not believe in the Lord Jesus but that condemnation is not necessarily permanent. If a person changes him mind at a later time and believes the gospel then he will not be condemned.
The Lord Jesus did not come to judge men but to save them (Jn.12:47). If a person remains in unbelief then he will be judged in the last day (Jn.12:48).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
He is just doing his duty as a good Calvinist, staying around in order to change the word "world" into the "world of the elect" whenever the occasion arrives.
beloved57
Well-known member
jerry
Thats the elect world !
Thats a invalid and false statement. Those Christ died for are not condemnd as unbelievers, they are said to be reconciled to God while enemies Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So your statement is false and contradicts the Truth !
Thats the elect world !
Thats a invalid and false statement. Those Christ died for are not condemnd as unbelievers, they are said to be reconciled to God while enemies Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
So your statement is false and contradicts the Truth !
God's Truth
New member
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES.
Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.
Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
Paul is explaining that Jesus did not just die for the Jews, the Jews who performed the commanded various laws and regulations. Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, even for the sins of the enemies of God. The Gentiles were the enemies.
Colossians 1:21 Once you were alienated from God and were enemies in your minds because of your evil behavior.
Reconciled while enemies is about the GENTILES not having to become a Jew first and get CIRCUMCISED.
Colossians 2:13 When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins,
beloved57
Well-known member
The word world means:
any aggregate or general collection of particulars of any sort
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).
Not just "some" things but instead "all" things.
God's Truth
New member
That scripture does not nullify the scriptures that say the GENTILES were enemies because of the UNCIRCUMCISION of their flesh.
God has bound everyone over to disobedience.
Romans 11:32 For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.
Again, that does NOT take away from the scriptures that say the Gentiles were enemies on account of their not obeying God and circumcising their flesh.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
When Paul uses the phrase "all things" he is not limiting the reconciliation to the Gentiles:
"And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven" (Col.1:20).
The world was reconciled to God when the Lord Jesus tasted death for every man:
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man" (Heb.2:9).
The world was reconciled to God by the Lord Jesus, who is the atoning sacrifice for the sins of the whole world:
"He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world" (1 Jn.2:2).
God's Truth
New member
Paul is explaining WHY the Gentiles did not have to get circumcised when they were enemies of God.
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
Here is what John Calvin wrote in his commentary on John 3:16:
In his commentary on John 3:16 John Calvin says that the whole world has been reconciled to God:
"He has employed the universal term whosoever, both to invite all indiscriminately to partake of life, and to cut off every excuse from unbelievers. Such is also the import of the term world which He formerly used [God so loved the world]; for though nothing will be found in the world that is worthy of the favor of God, yet He shows Himself to be reconciled to the whole world, when He invites all men without exception [not merely 'without distinction'] to the faith of Christ, which is nothing else than an entrance into life" (John Calvin, Commentary at John 3:16).
Jerry Shugart
Well-known member
So when Paul used the words "all things" he really meant only the Gentiles? And when he used the word "world" he really meant only Gentiles?
I see nothing in the context of the two verse which even hints that only Gentiles were spoken of.
God's Truth
New member
Paul says they were reconciled to God when they were uncircumcised in the flesh.
Just think, the Jews had to be circumcised in the flesh. The Jews had the ceremonial laws to keep them clean after they sinned...the Gentiles were dead in their sins, not having the laws to clean themselves.
How is it then that God would save them, and allow an unclean person to be the temple of the living God? Paul tells us that it is by faith in Jesus' blood that we are washed clean, even while we are still enemies, in the uncircumcision of our flesh.
beloved57
Well-known member
Invalid comments !
beloved57
Well-known member
The world of Israel or the Election was reconciled to God, not all men without exception, because many are under God's condemnation and wrath as enemies John 3:18,36 !
beloved57
Well-known member
Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies !
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !
We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour or Grace
God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.
Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
When the Apostle writes to believers here these words, He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace means the favor of God, and all for whom Christ died, even while they are enemies, and before they believe, and while yet being disobedient, they are saved into a state of reconciliation and Favor , which is Grace, with God, in fact they stand in a state of Grace Rom 5:2
2 By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
The word stand here , the greek word its in the perfect tense, and its an established and fixed station whereby we stand safe, and this is before Faith !
We are in this fixed state of Grace while unbelievers because while unbelievers we have been reconciled to God by Christ's Death, and that word reconciled katallassō means:
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour or Grace
God for Christ's sake alone, has received into Favor, a state of Grace, while those He died for are enemies, unbelievers and disobedient ! Now thats what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. See this way Grace the more shines forth, for God to have us in His Divine Favor, once and for all, while we are disobedient sinners and the ungodly, this magnifies the Grace of God because we did nothing to deserve it, but at the same time we are doing everything and more to forfeit it.
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beloved57
Well-known member
Saved by Grace through reconciliation while enemies ! 2
The fact is, its not Salvation by Grace or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Grace of the Death of Christ alone Heb 2:9, saved and or Justified before God while we are still disobedient, ungodly, and unbelievers, its only then can it be said when we do come to believe by the Power of the Holy Ghost, that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
So if we were anything but in a active state of ungodliness, and disobedience and unbelief when Christ's death alone reconciled us into the state of Divine Favor and Grace, we immediately have fallen from Grace, and any scripture testimony of being saved by Grace, and can only be judged as one who professes Salvation and or Justification by their works, which is condemned by the Word of God !
The fact is, its not Salvation by Grace or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Grace of the Death of Christ alone Heb 2:9, saved and or Justified before God while we are still disobedient, ungodly, and unbelievers, its only then can it be said when we do come to believe by the Power of the Holy Ghost, that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
So if we were anything but in a active state of ungodliness, and disobedience and unbelief when Christ's death alone reconciled us into the state of Divine Favor and Grace, we immediately have fallen from Grace, and any scripture testimony of being saved by Grace, and can only be judged as one who professes Salvation and or Justification by their works, which is condemned by the Word of God !
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beloved57
Well-known member
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation !
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation !
When the Apostle writes to Believers @ Rome these words Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace is the favor of God, and all for whom He died, Even While They Are Enemies, before they believe, repent or act any Gospel Obedience, and while they are actively disobedient, If Christ died for them, they are saved and received into the Favor of God ! The word for reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:
I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour
And thats what Grace is, God's Favor, and in His Favor is Life Ps 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
And that Life is Salvation ! It's Life that Lasts a Lifetime here and ushers them into Life Eternal !
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation !
When the Apostle writes to Believers @ Rome these words Rom 5:10
10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life.
He is teaching by and large what it means to be saved by Grace . Grace is the favor of God, and all for whom He died, Even While They Are Enemies, before they believe, repent or act any Gospel Obedience, and while they are actively disobedient, If Christ died for them, they are saved and received into the Favor of God ! The word for reconciled in Rom 5:10 is the greek word katallassō and means:
I.to change, exchange, as coins for others of equivalent value
A.
to reconcile (those who are at variance)
B.
return to favour with, be reconciled to one
C.
to receive one into favour
And thats what Grace is, God's Favor, and in His Favor is Life Ps 30:5
For his anger endureth but a moment; in his favour is life: weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.
And that Life is Salvation ! It's Life that Lasts a Lifetime here and ushers them into Life Eternal !
beloved57
Well-known member
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation ! 2
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation ! 2
Now that is what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. Its to be in a state of Favor and Blessing and Grace and Peace with God EVEN while we are at the same time being sinners, ungodly and disobedient and unbelievers,that is how God's Grace is Magnified the More, when its Saving Merit is applied when we have donr nothing to deserve it, and while we are doing everthing in our power to forfeit it.
Listen the fact is, its not never Salvationby Grace, or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Death of Christ alone, Saved, and or Justified before God, while we are yet still being disobedient, and ungodly, and unbelievers, then and only then can it be truthfully be said that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
This means we were Justified/ reconciled to God, while being Ungodly. Now if we were anything but ungodly, disobedient sinners when Christ's Death as a Free Gift Gift, Justified us before God or Reconciled us to God, then we immediately forfeit any claims of being Saved and or Justified by Grace, we can only be Judged as one who makes a profession of Salvation or Justification by Grace, but in actuality you believe in Justification by your works !
Saved by Grace by Reconciliation ! 2
Now that is what it means to be saved by Grace, as by the Gift of God. Its to be in a state of Favor and Blessing and Grace and Peace with God EVEN while we are at the same time being sinners, ungodly and disobedient and unbelievers,that is how God's Grace is Magnified the More, when its Saving Merit is applied when we have donr nothing to deserve it, and while we are doing everthing in our power to forfeit it.
Listen the fact is, its not never Salvationby Grace, or Justification by Grace unless we are by the Death of Christ alone, Saved, and or Justified before God, while we are yet still being disobedient, and ungodly, and unbelievers, then and only then can it be truthfully be said that we believed on Him that Justifieth the Ungodly Rom 4:5
5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
This means we were Justified/ reconciled to God, while being Ungodly. Now if we were anything but ungodly, disobedient sinners when Christ's Death as a Free Gift Gift, Justified us before God or Reconciled us to God, then we immediately forfeit any claims of being Saved and or Justified by Grace, we can only be Judged as one who makes a profession of Salvation or Justification by Grace, but in actuality you believe in Justification by your works !