Real Science Friday: A Leading Telescope Designer in Studio

[Granite]

Yes, I am their judge.

Wrong: being a judgmental peacock doesn't make you "judge" of anything.

And no Lazarus would get food from my talbe [sic] if he was willing to work.

Wasn't the point of Lazarus's tale that he couldn't work by definition?

This "nicer than God" business, I notice, usually just means "nicer than you." But if you want to be a tight-fisted miser, knock yourself out.

 

[TeeJay]

=The Barbarian;2770896]I notice that God expects us to do for those people who are in want. Nowhere does He say that if someone is at a bad pass because of his own bad judgement, we are to ignore their need.

For a good reason. What we do for others is not just for them. It's for us, too.

Barb, You're going to hell. I warned you. You are now without excuse. If you do or not do anything to benefit yourself, you are doing it or not doing it for the wrong reason.

If you are not going to read what your apostle Paul has to say about any of this, then tear his letters out of the Bible. You will then be under the law and Peter. But Paul writes, "By the law no flesh will be justified." "Without faith it's impossible to please God." "And the law is not of faith." "The law is a ministry of death engraved in stone." "The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law. "You are saved by faith and NOT BY WORKS..." You, Barb. have a free gift of grace that you refuse to accept. So, on judgment day, you will be judged by the law and condemned by it.

I'm going to have to let you go to hell. I don't wnat to, but you refuse to let Jesus justify you. You want to justify yourself. Good luck on that!

Tom

 

[TeeJay]

=Arthur Brain;2771048]Exactly. I've never donated anything out of a feeling of smugness to those lesser off. Just another typical SOD "soundbite"...

lain:

AB and Barbarian, Both of you have self-righteousness oozing from your pores. It nausinates me. Barf!

Tom

 

[Granite]

AB and Barbarian, Both of you have self-righteousness oozing from your pores. It nausinates me. Barf!

Tom

:rotfl:

 

[TeeJay]

=Granite;2771295]Wrong: being a judgmental peacock doesn't make you "judge" of anything.

Granite, Are you not judging me for being judgmental?

Wasn't the point of Lazarus's tale that he couldn't work by definition?

This "nicer than God" business, I notice, usually just means "nicer than you." But if you want to be a tight-fisted miser, knock yourself out.

Most of the street people who walk the streets in cities and stand in line to be fed by nicer than God Christians, could whip anybody on the thread in a fight. Yet they claim they are unable to work. I've had to wrestle with many of them. They are capable of working. Believe me!

There you go again. For someone who does not believe in judging, you sure are judgmental.

Tom

 

[Granite]

Granite, Are you not judging me for being judgmental?

You completely missed my point. Not surprised.

Most of the street people who walk the streets in cities and stand in line to be fed by nicer than God Christians, could whip anybody on the thread in a fight.

Ummmmmmm...okay. So what?

Yet they claim they are unable to work. I've had to wrestle with many of them. They are capable of working.

Really. It's that simple. Well, great: let them know the salt mines have plenty of openings. I wasn't aware that physical prowess meant someone was able to work, but then again, we all know that anyone who's strong but, say, mentally retarded is perfectly capable of holding down a nine-to-five.

For someone who does not believe in judging, you sure are judgmental.

I didn't say that, Tom. You didn't actually read my post: appointing yourself as someone's "judge" doesn't make you one. Try to actually read what I say, not what you think I wrote.

Accusing someone of being "nicer than God" is simply another way of disparaging them for being nicer than you are. There's a word for that, and it's "perverse."

 

[TeeJay]

=The Barbarian;2771045]Jesus says otherwise. He says whether or not you help the unfortunate will determine whether you spend eternity with Him or with the devil.

I think you should believe Him.

Barbarian, see if you can find Paul saying that your salvation is contingent on this passage? Jesus was talking to Jews in the Kingdom under the gospel of circumcision or law.

You silly man, you are not a Jew nor are you under Peter and the gospel of circumcision or law. Your apostle is Paul and you are saved by grace under the gospel of uncircumcision (Gal. 2:7-9). It's a free gift--grace PLUS NOTHING. But you don't want to accept Jesus' free gift. You are going to do it on your own. But if you could do it on your own, then Jesus would not have had to go to the Cross, you silly man.

Tom

 

[TeeJay]

=Granite;2771317]You completely missed my point. Not surprised.



Ummmmmmm...okay. So what?



Really. It's that simple. Well, great: let them know the salt mines have plenty of openings. I wasn't aware that physical prowess meant someone was able to work, but then again, we all know that anyone who's strong but, say, mentally retarded is perfectly capable of holding down a nine-to-five.



I didn't say that, Tom. You didn't actually read my post: appointing yourself as someone's "judge" doesn't make you one. Try to actually read what I say, not what you think I wrote.

Accusing someone of being "nicer than God" is simply another way of disparaging them for being nicer than you are. There's a word for that, and it's "perverse."

Granite,

I judged you correctly that you judged me. And it's okay to judge, but you have to judge with righteous judgment, Jesus said.

Tom

 

[Granite]

I judged you correctly that you judged me.

Are you even bothering to read what I wrote, Tommy? Or are you just interested in telling us all how awesome you are?

If you want to be a self-righteous tightwad, fine, but don't try to justify your own selfishness by disparaging those around you who don't share your callous nature.

 

[Arthur Brain]

Yes, I am their
judge. And no Lazarus would get food from my talbe if he was willing to work.

Rather you think you are. It's quite clear to me that you have little to no concept of why many people find themselves in the unenviable position of being on the streets to begin with. If you think many 'choose' to sleep rough in cardboard boxes in the winter then frankly you're rather off it Tom. Broken homes, abuse, mental illness are all causes of why people find themselves so down on their luck. Did you know that?

Oh, and in regards to Lazarus I think you'll find that the guy was in no fit state to work if you read the story again. He was very weak and covered in sores and died shortly afterwards.

If you believe this, go get one and take him home. And you may not have noticed, but you are judging me for judging. I think Jesus called that hypocritical.

As it happens I did just that a few years ago for a few days. The guy needed somewhere to crash until he had funds come through for him to move and take up a new job, which he did.

I'm also making no pretense of making judgements Tom. I find your attitude ignorant and uncharitable in the extreme.

Yes.

Tom

Then take that up with the bible. I gave someone hungry and thirsty a meal and something to drink. I'm yet to see a passage in there which encourages people to admonish altruism Tom. I've also noted you still haven't addressed who Paul was actually speaking to.

lain:

 

[Arthur Brain]

AB and Barbarian, Both of you have self-righteousness oozing from your pores. It nausinates me. Barf!

Tom

Coming from the guy who thinks he's the judge of all homeless people that's more than just a bit ironic Tom. Take a look in the mirror.

lain:

 

[The Barbarian]

Arthur writes:
Coming from the guy who thinks he's the judge of all homeless people...

It's better than that; Tom thinks God is going to give him Jesus' job. Instead of Jesus coming to judge the living and the dead, it's... Tom, he thinks. Here's Tom's updated version:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence Tom from Mabank shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Doesn't have quite the same majesty, does it?

 

[Granite]

Tom has more in common with Dives, come to think of it.

 

[TeeJay]

=The Barbarian;2771604]Arthur writes:
Coming from the guy who thinks he's the judge of all homeless people...

It's better than that; Tom thinks God is going to give him Jesus' job. Instead of Jesus coming to judge the living and the dead, it's... Tom, he thinks. Here's Tom's updated version:

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Maker of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:

Who was conceived by the Holy Ghost,
born of the virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, dead, and buried;

He descended into hell.

The third day He arose again from the dead;

He ascended into heaven,
and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty;
from thence Tom from Mabank shall come to judge the quick and the dead.

I believe in the Holy Ghost;
the holy catholic church;
the communion of saints;
the forgiveness of sins;
the resurrection of the body;
and the life everlasting.

Amen.

Doesn't have quite the same majesty, does it?

Barb, The demons believe this and tremble. But you don't know if you are saved. And if you don't know, you are not saved. There is no getting around or behind this simple truth.

Tom

 

[Arthur Brain]

Is that all you've got as response Tom? What does give you the right to judge all homeless people for their predicament or to 'admonish' me for giving someone some food?

lain:

 

[Stripe]

Is that all you've got as response Tom? What does give you the right to judge all homeless people for their predicament or to 'admonish' me for giving someone some food?

This is you twisting.

Wasn't the point of Lazarus's tale that he couldn't work by definition?

Nope.

But it's not surprising that this confuses you.

Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”​

Nothing to indicate that the rich man would not have been vindicated by offering Lazarus a job. And the point of the story is bolded. Granite won't listen to reason so it is certain that even if Heaven opens and God speaks to him, he will likewise rebel.

 

[Arthur Brain]

This is you twisting.

Nope.

But it's not surprising that this confuses you.

Luke 16:19-31
The Rich Man and Lazarus
19 “There was a certain rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and fared sumptuously every day.
20 But there was a certain beggar named Lazarus, full of sores, who was laid at his gate,
21 desiring to be fed with the crumbs which fell from the rich man’s table. Moreover the dogs came and licked his sores.
22 So it was that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels to Abraham’s bosom. The rich man also died and was buried.
23 And being in torments in Hades, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 “Then he cried and said, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus that he may dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.’
25 But Abraham said, ‘Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things; but now he is comforted and you are tormented.
26 And besides all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed, so that those who want to pass from here to you cannot, nor can those from there pass to us.’
27 “Then he said, ‘I beg you therefore, father, that you would send him to my father’s house,
28 for I have five brothers, that he may testify to them, lest they also come to this place of torment.’
29 Abraham said to him, ‘They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.’
30 And he said, ‘No, father Abraham; but if one goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’
31 But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’”​

Nothing to indicate that the rich man would not have been vindicated by offering Lazarus a job. And the point of the story is bolded. Granite won't listen to reason so it is certain that even if Heaven opens and God speaks to him, he will likewise rebel.

Oh c'mon Stripe. It's pretty darn obvious that the 'rich man' did nothing to help one of his lesser off brethren which makes the point. And why make a point of him being 'full of sores' exactly if otherwise? You reckon he'd be in a position to work, seriously? He'd need medical attention and sustenance before he'd even be capable of such if you're in any way interested in being remotely objective on the matter.

I'll ask you the same question I asked Tom, do I deserve to be admonished for giving a hungry person something to eat?

 

[Stripe]

I guess if the rich guy was serious about finding Lazarus work he would have had to provide a good medical plan. :think:

But leave it to you to twist everything into the worst possible mischaracterisation of what is sound policy. :second:

 

[Arthur Brain]

I guess if the rich guy was serious about finding Lazarus work he would have had to provide a good medical plan. :think:

Or rather just be altruistic to his suffering neighbour? That 'medical plan' would have involved giving him sustenance and medical attention to heal his sores in that regard and nothing else whether he offered him a job or not. Did the parable of the good Samaritan have legal provisos on giving someone help? Um, no.....the points were clear.

But leave it to you to twist everything into the worst possible mischaracterisation of what is sound policy. :second:

Eh? Just what exactly am I twisting dude? And answer my question also. Do I deserve to be admonished for giving a homeless person something to eat? Yes or no?

 

[The Barbarian]

(Barbarian notes that Tom thinks he's going to replace Jesus as the judge)

Tom writes:

Barb, The demons believe this and tremble.

Not only judge, but he's a demon-scarer, too.