Rapture Ready

Danoh

New member
There is nothing in any of those verses about the tribulation. I've posted at least 4 verses that specifically say that the rapture is after the tribulation. They haven't been responded to by anyone here yet, and no one has posted any verses that say it is after the the tribulation. The pre-trib rapture is not in the Bible and was not taught as a doctrine before 1830.

The Tribulation is that Great Day of His Wrath. Your passages refer to that.

And said Tribulation concerns Israel per THEIR Covenant with Him.

The Body entered into NO such Covenant with Him.

Passages like the following are neither ABOUT nor TO the Body of Christ.

Malachi 4:1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. 4:3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. 4:4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments. 4:5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of the LORD: 4:6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.

Mark 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; 1:2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee. 1:3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 1:4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins. 1:5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Mark 1:14 Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, 1:15 And saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.

Matthew 3:1 In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, 3:2 And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand. 3:3 For this is he that was spoken of by the prophet Esaias, saying, The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight. 3:4 And the same John had his raiment of camel's hair, and a leathern girdle about his loins; and his meat was locusts and wild honey. 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins. 3:7 But when he saw many of the Pharisees and Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto them, O generation of vipers, who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come? 3:8 Bring forth therefore fruits meet for repentance: 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham. 3:10 And now also the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire. 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: 3:12 Whose fan is in his hand, and he will throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire.

The scope of that and IT's context CONTINUED in Early Acts...

Acts 2:16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 2:17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 2:18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy: 2:19 And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: 2:20 The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before that great and notable day of the Lord come: 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand, 2:35 Until I make thy foes thy footstool. 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Acts 2:40 And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation.

Israel had been in it's last days - that Great and Terrible Day of the Lord in His Wrath not too far away.

Instead, we read His return to roar out of Zion in His Wrath as both Israel's PROPHESIED Refiner's Fire and Deliverer has been delayed until He finishes up FIRST our EVEN NOW GENTILE Salvation.

Romans 9:22 What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: 9:23 And that he might make known the riches of his glory on the vessels of mercy, which he had afore prepared unto glory, 9:24 Even us, whom he hath called, not of the Jews only, but also of the Gentiles?

Romans 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob: 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes. 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

It is this GENTILE Salvation that ends in a PreTrib/Wrath Rapture.

And THAT is ONLY spoken of by ITS' Apostle - OF THE GENTILES - The Apostle Paul.

As the above shows - Israel's Great Day of His Wrath is in accordance with THEIR Law Covenant WITH Him.

In contrast as to The Body of Christ.

Romans 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Romans 8:32 He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things?

Colossians 1:13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
"As a reminder SaulToPaul is number 57 on Satan, Inc. (TOL Heretics list) in "The 'Jesus is not God' people (Non-trinitarians) category."-serpentdove

This devil child also pegged me the same way, Mayor, putting me on the list. Reckon he has that list confused with the Esquire Club member list? It's a mite curious. But I am gaining on you, squirt.

Post #56
http://theologyonline.com/showthread.php?122135-Believing-in-vain-1Co-15-2/page4

Yes sir, it's a mite curious when an unsaved works salvationist puts you on a hairtick list.
The irony is astounding...
 

northwye

New member
The dispensationalists - also called Christian Zionists, Separation Theologians, or Rapture Cultists - say that Christ can come at any time. Matthew 14: 29-30 says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Dispensationalis seem to ignore what is said about when Christ will raise his people in John 6: "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day............44, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.............54,Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.........."

John 11: 23-24 says "Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

I know the dispensationalists will go into the dialectic and say the last day does not mean the last day as the end of the age, but just refers to the time close to the end.

And their response to "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (I Corinthians 15: 52) might be that this is some other trumpet, not the one at the very end of the age. More dialectic argued against the absolute truth of scripture.
 

SaulToPaul 2

Well-known member
The dispensationalists - also called Christian Zionists, Separation Theologians, or Rapture Cultists - say that Christ can come at any time. Matthew 14: 29-30 says "Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30. And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory."

Dispensationalis seem to ignore what is said about when Christ will raise his people in John 6: "And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40. And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day............44, No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.............54,Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.........."

John 11: 23-24 says "Jesus saith unto her, Thy brother shall rise again.
24. Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day."

I know the dispensationalists will go into the dialectic and say the last day does not mean the last day as the end of the age, but just refers to the time close to the end.

And their response to "In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed" (I Corinthians 15: 52) might be that this is some other trumpet, not the one at the very end of the age. More dialectic argued against the absolute truth of scripture.

:chuckle:
 

Jerry Shugart

Well-known member
Wait a minute. You just got done saying the day of the Lord is imminent so it means the rapture can happen at any moment, but now you're saying the day of the Lord isn't the rapture?

I never said that the day of the Lord is imminent!

SECONDLY, Strong's defines "eggizo" as "to be near" or "to be nigh." Not as "imminent."

Well, Vine's defines it the following way:

" 'to draw near, to approach,' from 'engus,' 'near,' is used...of time, with reference to things that are imminent...the coming of the Lord, Jam 5:8"
(Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).​

The Greek word translated "draweth nigh" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

The word "imminent" means that it could happen at any moment. And since James believed that the rapture could happen any moment then he knew that it was not going to happen until after the great tribulation is over.

And finally, I've posted at least four verses that specifically state that the rapture is AFTER the tribulation.

None of those verses show a rapture.

The only thing you've done is dwell on the definition of a Greek word in one verse, and Strong's doesn't even have the definition you're giving. So that argument falls flat.

You know that is not true. Let us look at this passage again:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation (apokaradokia) of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God...And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, that is, the redemption of our body" (Ro.8:18,19,23).​

Here Paul is speaking of "the redemption of our body," an event that will happen when the Lord Jesus appears. The Greek word translated "earnest expectation" is "apokaradokia", and this word means "to watch with head erect or outstretched...to wait for in suspense" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Vine says that the word means "primarily 'a watching with outstretched head' (apo, 'from,' kara, 'the head,' and dokeo, 'to look, to watch'), signifies "strained expectancy, eager longing," the stretching forth of the head indicating an 'expectation' of something from a certain place, Rom. 8:19; Phil. 1:20" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

The same Greek word "was used in Greek writings to describe the alert watchman who peered into the darkness, eagerly looking for the first gleam of the distant beacon which would announce the capture of Troy." (Precept Austin).

So according to the Greek experts the word that Paul used in regard to the "redemption of our body" is a word that indicates that this event can take place at any time.

Paul would not be telling anyone to be eagerly looking for the appearance of the Lord Jesus if that appearance could not even take place until after the great tribulation is over!

Perhaps this time you will actually address this fact.
 
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serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
...Rapture Cultists - say that Christ can come at any time.

His return is imminent. Better check your oil (Matt. 25:1–13).

mechanic.gif
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
The dispensationalists - also called... Rapture Cultists -

Wow! You blindsided all of us dispensationalists, with that original "cultist" stumper. We never have heard that stunning head scratcher before. You have bewildered us all.


Please teach us more stock cliches....Please?


And this drone is on record, of pegging Paul as a "cultist," being a "sect" member, and all.


Take your seat-standard fair-you bore us. We need a challenge.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
Jesus loves you (Jn 3:16). Jesus is willing to save you (2 Pe 3:9). Repent (Eze 18:30-32; Ac 17:30). Believe (Mk 9:23).

The serpent of dove is doing you a favor, Mayor!!!! Where would you be, w/o his so caring pleadings, on your behalf?

And show some respect, Catholic serpent dove-it is the Lord Jesus Christ, not "Jesus." At the Great White Throne, you will acknowledge this.
 

Daniel1769

New member
I never said that the day of the Lord is imminent!



Well, Vine's defines it the following way:

" 'to draw near, to approach,' from 'engus,' 'near,' is used...of time, with reference to things that are imminent...the coming of the Lord, Jam 5:8"
(Vine's Expository Dictionary of the New Testament).​

The Greek word translated "draweth nigh" at James 5:8 is eggizo and in this verse that word means "to be imminent" (A Greek English Lexicon, Liddell & Scott [Oxford: Clarendon Press, 1940], 467).

The word "imminent" means that it could happen at any moment. And since James believed that the rapture could happen any moment then he knew that it was not going to happen until after the great tribulation is over.



None of those verses show a rapture.



You know that is not true. Let us look at this passage again:

"For I reckon that the sufferings of this present time are not worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us. For the earnest expectation (apokaradokia) of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God...And not only they, but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, that is, the redemption of our body" (Ro.8:18,19,23).​

Here Paul is speaking of "the redemption of our body," an event that will happen when the Lord Jesus appears. The Greek word translated "earnest expectation" is "apokaradokia", and this word means "to watch with head erect or outstretched...to wait for in suspense" (Thayer's Greek English Lexicon).

Vine says that the word means "primarily 'a watching with outstretched head' (apo, 'from,' kara, 'the head,' and dokeo, 'to look, to watch'), signifies "strained expectancy, eager longing," the stretching forth of the head indicating an 'expectation' of something from a certain place, Rom. 8:19; Phil. 1:20" (Vine's Expository Dictionary of New Testament Words).

The same Greek word "was used in Greek writings to describe the alert watchman who peered into the darkness, eagerly looking for the first gleam of the distant beacon which would announce the capture of Troy." (Precept Austin).

So according to the Greek experts the word that Paul used in regard to the "redemption of our body" is a word that indicates that this event can take place at any time.

Paul would not be telling anyone to be eagerly looking for the appearance of the Lord Jesus if that appearance could not even take place until after the great tribulation is over!

Perhaps this time you will actually address this fact.

I'm using Strong's Greek and the King James translation. If you're looking around to find a definition of a Greek word to fit you doctrine, fine. Strong's doesn't define it as "imminent" and the King James doesn't translate it as "imminent."

Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, all are about Jesus gathering his elect from the earth. If you're asserting that these aren't verses about the rapture, then you're insane.

I don't know if you're a dispensationalist, but TOL seems to be dispensationalist heavy, and dispensationalism needs the pre-trb rapture to exist, really. I see why people resist it, but you still have not shown any verses that state that the rapture is before the tribulation. Saying that Mark 13 isn't about the rapture is just absurd. This conversation is apparently about to go around in circles where you want to hinge your argument on a definition of a word that isn't even listed in Strong's or the KJV. And you want to say that the gathering of the elect on Mark 13 isn't a rapture, all while showing no verses at all that support your position. If we're going to go in circles, there's no point in discussing it further.
 

john w

New member
Hall of Fame
This from a guy who rejects Lordship? :eek: 2 Pe 2:1

Yes, I reject works based justification, your definition of "Lordship."


You, to your boss, at work: I am hiring you!!!

You, to your employer: Thanks for my wage/paycheck!!!! What is a debt/gift?


You, after receiving a gift on 12/25: How much do I owe you?


You vile perverter....
 

Daniel1769

New member
:dizzy: Lk 21:36, Re 3:10

Nothing there says the rapture is before the tribulation. I've mentioned at least four verses numerous times that explicitly describe the rapture and say explicitly that it is after the tribulation. No one has answered those verses. And I've asked numerous times for a single verse that says the rapture is before the tribulation and no one can show any that say that. I've shown four that describe the rapture and say "after" the tribulation. You haven't shown one.
 

steko

Well-known member
LIFETIME MEMBER
Matt 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, all are about Jesus gathering his elect from the earth. If you're asserting that these aren't verses about the rapture, then you're insane.

Nope, they're about angels gathering the scattered elect of Israel back to the land as prophecy declares again and again.
They have nothing to do with the 'catching up' of the body of Christ by the Lord Himself.
 

DAN P

Well-known member
There is no word "trinity" in the Bible either. What's your point? The concept is there. Further, I'm waiting for you to explain how there are two raptures. If it is your contention that Mark 13 is about Israel, then there must be two raptures. Explain.


Hi and what does 1 John 5:7 and 8 mean ??

In Mastt 24:24:30 , all shall see Christ ciming !!

For thr B O C AND in 1 Cor 15: 51 we shall be TRANSFORMED !!

And in 1 Tess 4:17 we shall be caught up and meet the Lord into the AIR !!

Thses two are different as ONE is for Israel and ONE is for the B O C !!

DAN P
 
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