Public Education is a Terrible Idea!

Clete

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Many of the arguments concerning public education have to do with religious issues.

The following is the single best argument I have ever heard on the topic and it is offered by an atheist and it is anything but religiously based.
I invite those of you who support the public education system, atheist or otherwise to respond to it.



PUBLIC EDUCATION

SHOULD EDUCATION BE COMPULSORY AND TAX-SUPPORTED, AS IT IS TODAY?
The answer to this question becomes evident if one makes the question more concrete and specific, as follows:
Should the government be permitted to remove children forcibly from their homes, with or without the parents' consent, and subject the children to educational training and procedures of which the parents may or may not approve? Should citizens have their wealth expropriated to support an educational system which they may or may not sanction, and to pay for the education of children who are not their own? To anyone who understands and is consistently committed to the principle of individual rights, the answer is clearly: No.

There are no moral grounds whatever for the claim that education is the prerogative of the State—or for the claim that it is proper to expropriate the wealth of some men for the unearned benefit of others.

The doctrine that education should be controlled by the State is consistent with the Nazi or communist theory of government. It is not consistent with the American theory of government. The totalitarian implications of State education (preposterously described as "free education") have in part been obscured by the fact that in America, unlike Nazi Germany or Soviet Russia, private schools
are legally tolerated. Such schools, however, exist not by right but only by permission.

Further, the facts remain that:
(a) most parents are effectively compelled to send their children to State schools, since they are taxed to support these schools and cannot afford to pay the additional fees required to send their children to private schools;
(b) the standards of education, controlling all schools,
are prescribed by the State;
(c) the growing trend in American education is for the government to exert wider and wider control over every aspect of education.

As an example of this last: when many parents, who objected to the pictographic method of teaching schoolchildren to read, undertook to teach their children at home by the phonetic method—a proposal was made legally to forbid parents to do so. What is the implication of this, if not that the child's mind belongs to the State?

When the State assumes financial control of education, it is logically appropriate that the State should progressively assume control of the content of education—since the State has the responsibility of judging whether or not its funds are being used "satisfactorily." But when a government enters the sphere of ideas, when it presumes to prescribe in issues concerning intellectual content, that is the death of a free society.

To quote Isabel Paterson in The God of the Machine:
"Educational texts are necessarily selective, in subject matter, language, and point of view. Where teaching is conducted by private schools, there will be a considerable variation in different schools; the parents must judge what they want their children taught, by the curriculum offered. Then each must strive for objective truth. . . . Nowhere will there be any inducement to teach the "supremacy of the state" as a compulsory philosophy. But every politically controlled educational system will inculcate the doctrine of state supremacy sooner or later, whether as the divine right of kings, or the "will of the people" in "democracy." Once that doctrine has been accepted, it becomes an almost superhuman task to break the stranglehold of the political power over the life of the citizen. It has had his body, property, and mind in its clutches from infancy."

The disgracefully low level of education in America today is the predictable result of a State-controlled school system. Schooling, to a marked extent, has become a status symbol and a ritual. More and more people are entering college— and fewer and fewer people are emerging properly educated. Our educational system is like a vast bureaucracy, a vast civil service, in which the trend is toward a policy of considering everything about a teacher's qualifications (such as the number of bis publications) except his teaching ability; and of considering everything about a student's qualifications (such as his "social adaptability") except his intellectual competence.
The solution is to bring the field of education into the marketplace.

There is an urgent economic need for education. When educational institutions have to compete with one another in the quality of the training they offer—when they have to compete for the value that will be attached to the diplomas they issue—educational standards will necessarily rise. When they have to compete for the services of the best teachers, the teachers who will attract the greatest number of students, then the caliber of teaching—and of teachers' salaries—will necessarily rise. (Today, the most talented teachers often abandon their profession and enter private industry, where they know their efforts will be better rewarded.) When the economic principles that have resulted in the superlative efficiency of American industry are permitted to operate in the field of education, the result will be a revolution, in the direction of unprecedented educational development and growth.

Education should be liberated from the control or intervention of government, and turned over to profit-making private enterprise, not because education is unimportant, but because education is so crucially important.

What must be challenged is the prevalent belief that education is some sort of "natural right"—in effect, a free gift of nature. There are no such free gifts. But it is in the interests of statism to foster this delusion—in order to throw a smokescreen over the issue of whose freedom must be sacrificed to pay for such "free gifts."

As a result of the fact that education has been tax-supported for such a long time, most people find it difficult to project an alternative. Yet there is nothing unique about education that distinguishes it from the many other human needs which are filled by private enterprise. If, for many years, the government had undertaken to provide all the citizens with shoes (on the grounds that shoes are an urgent necessity), and if someone were subsequently to propose that this field should be turned over to private enterprise, he would doubtless be told indignantly: "What! Do you want everyone except the rich to walk around barefoot?" But the shoe industry is doing its job with immeasurably greater competence than public education is
doing its job.

To quote Isabel Paterson once more:
"The most vindictive resentment may be expected from the pedagogic profession for any suggestion that they should be dislodged from their dictatorial position; it will be expressed mainly in epithets, such as "reactionary," at the mildest. Nevertheless, the question to put to any teacher moved to such indignation is: Do you think nobody would willingly entrust his children to you and pay you for teaching them? Why do you have to extort your fees and collect your pupils by compulsion?

Ayn Rand - JUNE 1963.​

Resting in Him,
Clete
 
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Clete

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As a supplement to the argument presented in the opening post I offer this short piece from Rand that is not specifically on the topic of public education but on the larger issue of "the common good".


“Common Good”​

The tribal notion of “the common good” has served as the moral justification of most social systems—and of all tyrannies—in history. The degree of a society’s enslavement or freedom corresponded to the degree to which that tribal slogan was invoked or ignored.

“The common good” (or “the public interest”) is an undefined and undefinable concept: there is no such entity as “the tribe” or “the public”; the tribe (or the public or society) is only a number of individual men. Nothing can be good for the tribe as such; “good” and “value” pertain only to a living organism—to an individual living organism—not to a disembodied aggregate of relationships.

“The common good” is a meaningless concept, unless taken literally, in which case its only possible meaning is: the sum of the good of all the individual men involved. But in that case, the concept is meaningless as a moral criterion: it leaves open the question of what is the good of individual men and how does one determine it?

It is not, however, in its literal meaning that that concept is generally used. It is accepted precisely for its elastic, undefinable, mystical character which serves, not as a moral guide, but as an escape from morality. Since the good is not applicable to the disembodied, it becomes a moral blank check for those who attempt to embody it.

When “the common good” of a society is regarded as something apart from and superior to the individual good of its members, it means that the good of some men takes precedence over the good of others, with those others consigned to the status of sacrificial animals. It is tacitly assumed, in such cases, that “the common good” means “the good of the majority” as against the minority or the individual. Observe the significant fact that that assumption is tacit: even the most collectivized mentalities seem to sense the impossibility of justifying it morally. But “the good of the majority,” too, is only a pretense and a delusion: since, in fact, the violation of an individual’s rights means the abrogation of all rights, it delivers the helpless majority into the power of any gang that proclaims itself to be “the voice of society” and proceeds to rule by means of physical force, until deposed by another gang employing the same means.

If one begins by defining the good of individual men, one will accept as proper only a society in which that good is achieved and achievable. But if one begins by accepting “the common good” as an axiom and regarding individual good as its possible but not necessary consequence (not necessary in any particular case), one ends up with such a gruesome absurdity as Soviet Russia, a country professedly dedicated to “the common good,” where, with the exception of a minuscule clique of rulers, the entire population has existed in subhuman misery for over two generations. Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal - What is Capitalism - pg 20​

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

brewmama

New member
I absolutely agree. The least one could ask for is voucher programs or charter schools so parents could determine the kind of education (including religion or lack therof) for their children, but the left continually squashes the idea.
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
PUBLIC EDUCATION

SHOULD EDUCATION BE COMPULSORY AND TAX-SUPPORTED, AS IT IS TODAY?
Resting in Him,
Clete​


I am neither, but hell no. I am not paying for the retirement of anybody, let alone godless heathens.​
 

Nick M

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I absolutely agree. The least one could ask for is voucher programs or charter schools so parents could determine the kind of education (including religion or lack therof) for their children, but the left continually squashes the idea.

They won't because the wealth is not redistributed into the hands of the left.
 

Clete

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They won't because the wealth is not redistributed into the hands of the left.

This might be part of it but its the power of having the control over what children are taught that they really care about.

Even with vouchers, there will be stipulations about which schools qualify to accept vouchers. Vouchers would introduce competition which would certainly improve things but the challenge would be to keep the government from taking over the accreditation process and attempting to control the curriculum. A process that they are already way too involved in to begin with. If a voucher system is ever adopted, the left's tactic will be to turn all voucher funded schools into privately owned public schools. The very epitome of a fascist school system.

We need to be very careful about what we advocate. The best solution is to simply get the government out of the education business altogether. If we let the free market do its job, we won't turn into an uneducated society. On the contrary, we will be the educational envy of the entire world. We didn't need the government to build computers, shoes, clothing, light bulbs, telephones, radios, cars, television sets or a thousand other things that everyone in the world wants. The government only ever gets in the way.

Resting in Him,
Clete
 

Nick M

Black Rifles Matter
LIFETIME MEMBER
Hall of Fame
This might be part of it but its the power of having the control over what children are taught that they really care about.

Resting in Him,
Clete

That is the dirty not so secret about liberals. They are greedy and love money. Schools ask for tax increases when there are no budget increases for the schools so their pensions go up.
 

brewmama

New member
That is the dirty not so secret about liberals. They are greedy and love money. Schools ask for tax increases when there are no budget increases for the schools so their pensions go up.


Right. Just look how the poor deprived teachers in Wisconsin reacted when told to pay a miniscule portion of their own retirement and health insurance (6 and 12% respectively). Poor babies!
 

brewmama

New member
Thomas Jefferson proposed some form of public ed, although he would have no doubt already taken out his sword and pistol at the knowledge of what it has become.


Saying that locally run public schools are "Congress" or the "State", is where the big lie comes in. They should be left to the control of the citizens that reside there, not the federal gov't or teacher's unions.
 

Clete

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Oh wonderful, a proposal to escalate the level of ignorance in our culture. :)
A proposal to give more money to the public schools would be a proposal to escalate the ignorance in our culture.


Care to give even a little bit of a stab at responding to the arguments made on either of the first two posts of the thread?
 

Clete

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Saying that locally run public schools are "Congress" or the "State", is where the big lie comes in. They should be left to the control of the citizens that reside there, not the federal gov't or teacher's unions.

They should not exist.

The government has no right to take my money (by force) and spend it on someone else's education, whether I have a say in what that education entails or not.
 
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gcthomas

New member
The should not exist.

The government has no right to take my money (by force) and spend it on someone else's education, whether I have a say in what that education entails or not.

If your tax is being taken by force then you are doing it wrong. I have my taxes taken, using no force whatsoever, from my pay at source.

Do your tax collectors turn up at you door with guns like everyone else does?
 

The Horn

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Banned
This thread is ridiculous . Yes, our public schools are far from perfect and have their problems, but the conservative alternative is infinitely worse and would lead to total chaos in America .
Complete privatization of education sounds like a good idea, but it is totally unrealistic for reasons which are too long to explain here .
Home schooling is also very problematic, because too many home schooling parents are extremely conservative Christians who do a woefully inadequate job and also teach their kids that the world is only 6,000 years old, created in one week , Adam & Eve, a garden of Eden and a talking snake actually existed , dinosaurs existed at the same time as humans, Noah and his ark actually existed , etc and that God made Eve out of Adams rib .
They teach their kids to be woefully ignorant of science , to be intolerant of anyone who does not share their religious and political beliefs, and to be hostile to gay people ,among other things which will handicap them for life .
True, not ALL parents who home school their kids are like this, but too many ARE .
Public schools don't "indoctrinate "kids to be atheists ,Marxists and communists and to hate Christians and Christianity , nor do they
try to "make kids gay ".
But too many home schooling parents DO indoctrinate and brainwash their kids with what I described earlier in this post .
Kids need to learn about math, science, history, geography ,English
learn foreign languages , and to be exposed to music and the arts .
 
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