ECT Our triune God

Arsenios

Well-known member
Primary definitions are not only nor preeminent definitions, but indicate volume of usage. Rhema is the subject matter. The thing (thought and) spoken about. You just refuse to accept the valid definition.

So if I am thinking and speaking about a golf ball, then is rhema the golf ball? And if I am NOT thinking and/or speaking about a golf ball, then rhema is not the golf ball? Because you said that rhema is the THING spoken/thought about...

I'm not referring to the terms content and concept in any way the same manner in which you are. You're forcing me into your caricature.......again.

The terms you are using need to be established in the sand-box lab before they can scale the heights of theological usage... So please... Just take a simple example - You pick one - Where we have a simple objective reality, like a tennis shoe, or a saddle, or a poodle - It doesn't matter - And show how the person apprehending it comes to a point of high content or low, high context or low, language in their thinking about it... Show how it works with a simple and easily dissectable example that is not theologically charged, so I can get it into my head what you are understanding by your terms in the world of simple objects, and then we can go forth into braver constructs...

Maybe...

You act as though speech is distinct from thought,

Of course it is... Speech is but a small part of thought, unless one is a really gifted speaker, but even then, it is less...

Speech expresses thoughts in concepts that are given vocal expression... Thoughts are anterior to words...

and that both thought and speech are distinct from objective reality.

Yes, and easy to demonstrate, because in your own experience, you are seeing me have words and thoughts that are utterly distinct from the objective reality of your understanding.

The concept in the human brain expressed by a word is distinct from the objective reality of that of which it is speaking...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
While Paul was alive without the law,
what commandment came that revived the sin in his members?

When was Paul alive without the Law of Moses?
He was born under it...
He escaped it when Ananias baptized Him into Christ...
[The Law doesn't apply to the dead, you see...]

So the only time Paul was alive without the Law was after He became a Christian...

And sin is not revived in one's members for becoming a Christian...

Arsenios
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
When was Paul alive without the Law of Moses?
He was born under it...
He escaped it when Ananias baptized Him into Christ...
[The Law doesn't apply to the dead, you see...]

So the only time Paul was alive without the Law was after He became a Christian...

Right.




And sin is not revived in one's members for becoming a Christian...

Wrong.
Sin is and always has been in our members starting with Adam.



Romans 7:9 KJV


9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came , sin revived , and I died .



Watch yuh reckon Paul was doin' them three years in Arabia?
 
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Arsenios

Well-known member
Sin is and always has been in our members starting with Adam.

Sin is what we do. It is not the presence of pleasure and pain in our bodies, but is instead what we DO about them... Do we serve the pleasures and pains of our bodies? Or do we serve God and neighbor?


Romans 7:9 KJV

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came , sin revived, and I died .



You think that Paul is speaking personally of himself?
Do you think he is being his own personal autobiographer here?

So when did he die?
When was there no sin?
When was Paul alive apart from the Law?
When did sin revive?
Which commandment?
Who revived this sin?

Paul, in this chapter, is speaking TO "those knowing the Law"...
He is speaking AS "one knowing the Law."
He is weaning these from the Law as one OF them...
Paul is speaking of Israel BEFORE the Law of Moses...
Of Israel before the Law was GIVEN...

He is showing the Law to be Holy and Good...
And he is showing our DEATH in Christ's death...
To be our FREEDOM from the Law and from SELF...

Watch yuh reckon Paul was doin' them three years in Arabia?

He was establishing the Law of Christ in his fleshly members...
He was putting the Old Man of Sin to DEATH in his flesh...
He was becoming MATURED in the Faith of Christ...
He was becoming a Christian Servant of our Lord...
He was PROVING the Faith in himself...
Even in his very own flesh...

So that in his Apostolic calling, he would be able to be a father to many...
That they should WALK as he learned to walk...
In the Way of Christ...
The Father of us all in Him...

Arsenios
 
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patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
Functional to suit God's purpose.

There is no malfunction or dysfunction going on in it.

Definitely no non function. :wazzup:







This is not even credible.

You are ignoring all the previous context and trying to install the definition you like.



Shall the thing formed say to the maker, why did you make me like this?

BTW it's rhetorical, we dont get to do that.


Paul then says what if God fitted and prepared the vessels.

So I'm asking you, what if he did just that?


I know when it comes to God's sovereignty and his purpose you always implode.

I understand everyone's reluctance to embrace that God's sovereignty includes having mercy on whom he will have mercy without any explanation especially one that would not seem fair.

But just like he asked Job, where were you when I...........?[/QUOTE]

Job 38:4-7 - Job 38 KJV - through - Job 41 KJV -
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
Sin is what we do. It is not the presence of pleasure and pain in our bodies, but is instead what we DO about them... Do we serve the pleasures and pains of our bodies? Or do we serve God and neighbor?


Romans 7:9 KJV

9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came , sin revived, and I died .



You think that Paul is speaking personally of himself?
Do you think he is being his own personal autobiographer here?

So when did he die?
When was there no sin?
When was Paul alive apart from the Law?
When did sin revive?
Which commandment?
Who revived this sin?

Paul, in this chapter, is speaking TO "those knowing the Law"...
He is speaking AS "one knowing the Law."
He is weaning these from the Law as one OF them...
Paul is speaking of Israel BEFORE the Law of Moses...
Of Israel before the Law was GIVEN...

He is showing the Law to be Holy and Good...
And he is showing our DEATH in Christ's death...
To be our FREEDOM from the Law and from SELF...


Nope.

Our freedom is in his death, burial and resurrection.

You still haven't answered my question.




He was establishing the Law of Christ in his fleshly members...

Nope.

He learned to get under his body.


He was putting the Old Man of Sin to DEATH in his flesh...

Impossibility.


He was becoming MATURED in the Faith of Christ...

Becoming.

However as we read his epistles we watch him learn and grow.

He was becoming a Christian Servant of our Lord...

Yep.

He was PROVING the Faith in himself...
Even in his very own flesh...

Not like you think.


So that in his Apostolic calling, he would be able to be a father to many...
That they should WALK as he learned to walk...
In the Way of Christ...
The Father of us all in Him...

I asked what he was doin' out there not why he went.

There yuh go tryin' to run again.
 

patrick jane

BANNED
Banned
the curse started in the garden, you have no power here. let you be accursed for blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. you are a self loathing, self absorbed wretch -
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Nope.

Our freedom is in his death, burial and resurrection.

You still haven't answered my question.

Our freedom from WHAT???


Yup...

He learned to get under his body.

I'd like to see your Scripture for THAT!

Impossibility.

Necessity...

Becoming.

Always, because there is no limit to God...

However as we read his epistles we watch him learn and grow.

Where?


Yep...

Not like you think.

You can ONLY PROVE the Faith of Jesus Christ in yourself...

I cannot prove it in you, and you cannot prove it in me...

GuaranToledo, O Hee Oh...

I asked what he was doin' out there not why he went.

I already told you:

He was proving the Faith of Christ in himself...

Which means:

He was becoming mature in the Faith of Christ...

Don't be goin' t'sleep on me here!

Think repentance and union with God in the Marriage of the Lamb...

That is what Christians do in the wilderness...

There yuh go tryin' to run again.

You have a great fantasy life...

Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
the curse started in the garden, you have no power here. let you be accursed for blasphemy of the Holy Ghost. you are a self loathing, self absorbed wretch -

The human condition...

That be you and me...

Is all messed up,

No question...

Fortunately, Christ is not...

AND

The Kingdom of Heaven...

Is HERE and NOW...

So be ye repenting...

And get baptized into Christ.

Who IS the Kingdom of Heaven...

Here and Now...


Arsenios
 

Arsenios

Well-known member
Our freedom is IN his death, burial and resurrection.

BY the Death of Christ,

We are freed FROM Death...

IF we are repenting, and

IF we are baptized into Christ, and

IF we ABIDE in Him...

Prior to Christ, we were tyrannized by Death,
And in that tyranny, we all have sinned...
And we still CAN...

To ABIDE is to continually WALK in Christ...
He who abides to the end, will be saved...

Salvation is a really big IF...

Arsenios
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
Functional to suit God's purpose.

Yes, all God's cosmological creation was declared functional. And innate in the actuality of function is the latent potentiality of dysfunction. It requires subtraction by addition, like a functional automobile having sugar added to its fuel tank to negate functionality and introduce dysfunctionality.

There is no malfunction or dysfunction going on in it.

Ra'a is a privation or negation of tov, so there must be potential for dysfunction within function.

Definitely no non function. :wazzup:

Not inherently. The negation must occur. Dysfunction cannot stand alone. The Christian faith cannot be any form or degree of Dualism.

Ra'a emerged. It's the same Ponerology pattern that we then see in Hamartiology. Negation of function is the only means of there being dysfunction in creation. First in the created heavenlies, then in the cosmos.

This is not even credible.

Well... It was virtually verbatim lexicography from the preeminent native Greek-speaking scholar Zodhiates, so I'm gonna have to stay with it as quite credible.

You are ignoring all the previous context and trying to install the definition you like.

Not at all. :)

Shall the thing formed say to the maker, why did you make me like this?

BTW it's rhetorical, we dont get to do that.

Right. It sure helps to copiously and intuitively understand the attributes of God to read such pasages, though. God's timelessness interfaces with all time. For God, there is no sequentiality as we perceive it.

I'm communing with God in His pre-creational foreknowledge from time. NOW. "Before" creation. But there is no "before" for God.

Paul then says what if God fitted and prepared the vessels.

So I'm asking you, what if he did just that?

He did. According to them having fitted themselves, since He knows the end before the beginning.

I know when it comes to God's sovereignty and his purpose you always implode.

Wow. Just wow. Why haven't you scathed and demeaned me sooner instead of all the pretense?

And I put the pitiful Calvinistic view of sovereignty to shame. God's sovereignty is utterly superordinate to all creation; just not in fallacious Supralapsarian fashion.

I understand everyone's reluctance to embrace that God's sovereignty includes having mercy on whom he will have mercy without any explanation especially one that would not seem fair.

I wholely embrace it with no reluctance whatsoever. That doesn't mean those fitted for destruction didn't do so as the participle reflecting the middle voice of the main verb, as specified by the Greek grammar.

God isn't awaiting time to unfold. He's both "nowhen" and "everywhen". Occurances in time don't dictate God's sovereign creation, but neither does God look down through some created time tunnel and non-interactively predesignate all things arbitrarily like a fiction novel and its characters.

This is why there are so many artifical binaries as false dichotomies as doctrinal extremes. Everyone ignores God's attributes and imputes time to Him instead.

But just like he asked Job, where were you when I...........?

The same place I am now. In His pre-creational Logos. But for me and creation, there's been an intervening instantiation into tangible existence according to created properties like time, etc. But I'm translated into the kingdom of God's dear Son in hypostatic union from time into his timelessness as He tents in the everlasting abode of the created heaven.

Time-based doctrinal declarations are false absolutes. I'm partaking of the divine nature... NOW. The uncreated, eternal, timeless nature of God... from time. That's why I'm predestinated to be conformed to the image of His Son. He foreknew me. Right now. But eternally. He is foreknowing me just as He eternally foreknew me.

God doesn't do all that in some "past". There is no "past" for God. Only eternality as timelessness. Time is nothing to God, so doctrines dependent upon time constructs are absurd.

Don't tase me, Bro. Not cool.:dizzy:
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
I think it supremely difficult for those of us constrained by the perception of time to imagine anyone or any thing outside of it and so we develop doctrine based upon this perception. Like Ian Anderson said on the back cover of the Aqualung album, "In the beginning was man and man made God in his image."

The tail wagging the dog as it were ... conceptually speaking.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
I'd like to see your Scripture for THAT!




1 Corinthians 9:27 KJV


27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection : lest that by any means , when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.









You have a great fantasy life...


Spiritual life can seem like a fantasy to those who give heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of devils.
 

1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
There is no "past" for God.

Only eternality as timelessness. Time is nothing to God, so doctrines dependent upon time constructs are absurd.

What exactly are you calling a doctrine built on time constructs?

God is time.




Don't tase me, Bro. Not cool.:dizzy:

Didn't mean to.

One cannot appreciate eternal life without first knowing death.





1 Corinthians 13:8 KJV


8 Charity never faileth : but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail ; whether there be tongues, they shall cease ; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away .




Philippians 3:13 KJV

13 Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended : but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,




Matthew 6:34 KJV


34 Take therefore no thought for the morrow: for the morrow shall take thought for the things of itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.


I am in total agreement that we are in Christ now.
 
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1Mind1Spirit

Literal lunatic
BY the Death of Christ,

We are freed FROM Death...

IF we are repenting, and

IF we are baptized into Christ, and

IF we ABIDE in Him...

Prior to Christ, we were tyrannized by Death,
And in that tyranny, we all have sinned...
And we still CAN...

To ABIDE is to continually WALK in Christ...
He who abides to the end, will be saved...

Salvation is a really big IF...

Arsenios


Philippians 3:18 KJV


18 (For many walk , of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping , that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ:
 

PneumaPsucheSoma

TOL Subscriber
I think it supremely difficult for those of us constrained by the perception of time to imagine anyone or any thing outside of it and so we develop doctrine based upon this perception.

Exactimously! And there's time in heaven, so it's creation must be accounted for.

Like Ian Anderson said on the back cover of the Aqualung album, "In the beginning was man and man made God in his image."

LOL. Yes, precisely.

The tail wagging the dog as it were ... conceptually speaking.

Indeed.:dizzy:
 

fzappa13

Well-known member
Exactimously! And there's time in heaven, so it's creation must be accounted for.

Well, it is accounted for in the Bible but not in the detail some would prefer and certainly not in enough detail to preclude no small amount of questionable speculation on the part of man. It is interesting to note that though both heaven and earth shall pass away the Logos shall remain.
 
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