On Cowards and Heroes

[ok doser]

Doser ran like a river.

doser made a counter challenge, just like i did today - same one, in fact

guess who "ran like a river" back then?

guess who will "run like a river" this time?

 

[ok doser]

You know well that you never needed to bother with such proof of your qualifications.

why would anybody care?

eider - i occasionally talk about my life situations, my life experiences. I sometimes refer to the stint i did teaching in the inner city.

if anybody called that into question, i can't imagine being so invested in it that i'd give them more than a :idunno:

 

[Town Heretic]

You know well that you never needed to bother with such proof of your qualifications.

I wouldn't have but it became an echoed shtick that was getting in the way of conversation, so I decided to pull its teeth.

I'm not reading or participating in this thread beyond what I wrote prior and answered and, of course, this. I saw you'd nudged me with a quote and thought I'd answer this and let you know I'd be happy to have any conversation you'd like away from here, but won't return to the thread again.

In time our posts show the world who and what we are.

Fair enough, and for some time now I've mostly put him on the back burner, not bothered with a thread of his, more often than not ignored the efforts at gaining my attention. I had the quote nudge in this thread, took a look to see what he could possibly be saying using me in a thread of his and found the sad answer in need of response, if only for someone who might not have any real context, that post of mine being a few years old by now.

And a person who throws the word 'coward' at any fight/flight/collapse response to danger is despicable, imo.

Soldiers given a great deal of muscle memory, armed and in the company of similarly composed men will not infrequently find themselves overwhelmed by the moment of incoming fire. And if a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his fellows only a fool would say, "Well, if he was brave he'd have thrown it back and charged after it with his rifle blazing" and all the assumptions that go into that sort of jackassery in narrative.

Anyway, good luck to you if you feel you can have something like a meaningful conversation with him. I'm for other roads. :cheers:

 

[ok doser]

And a person who throws the word 'coward' at any fight/flight/collapse response to danger is despicable, imo.

is it despicable to describe the actions of Mintz, who met the definition of hero, as heroic?


if not, why not?

 

[ok doser]

guess who will "run like a river" this time?

I ... won't return to the thread again.

well, that dint take long, did it? :darwinsm:


83 minutes - a new record :first:

 

[Sherman]

Unless you are looking for a thread ban, let's not go impugning the character of TOL members. Let get on to dialoging about the issues. That goes for both sides of the fence.

 

[ok doser]

the key to understanding this thread:

Should we celebrate and acknowledge great acts of courage? Of course. We simply shouldn't expect those acts to define the normal or expected

why not?

why not expect great things of our young people?

i worked with young boy scouts for years and we celebrated acts of courage and trained our boys to be prepared to meet challenging situations, not to run away in fear

why shouldn't we expect that to be normal?

not sure why that's controversial :idunno:


:think: perhaps its because the left prefers to have us raised as a nation of sheep, tolerant and accepting of perversion

 

[ok doser]

I expect that some of us are more interested in the measure of you.........

Now, let's dump your definition here, thus:-
coward, n. ... one who displays ... want of courage in the face of danger, pain, or difficulty

This word has always interested me, along with the people who chuck it about.

I need you to explain what you might do in a couple of scenarios....... ok?

1. You are on a shopping trip to your local Food Market. You only have your handbag and you are pushing a selections trolley along the back aisle with a few items already collected. You hear a lot of shouting at the front of the store and a loud bang (probably a gunshot), followed by another. People start screaming and then there is another loud bang. A young man runs into your view, runs up to a Fire Escape door close by, pushes the panic-bar and runs out of the store and away. More people run past you and go out through that door, and away.You are standing five feet from this same door, and now there are more loud bangs happening at the front of the store. What would you like to do?
1. Go forward to the front of shop to diccover what is happening?
2. Continue shopping..... you have a lot more selections to make.
3. Go out through the fire escape and away?
4. Any other action you might think of?

:idunno:

what would a hero do?

 

[eider]

what would a hero do?

Are you telling us all that after all your shouting, that you can't answer for yourself?
The scenario is possible, the options cover any decision or action that you might want to take...... you just need the courage to tell us all what you would do.

But somehow I don't think you've got the guts to give us an answer.

 

[eider]

I wouldn't have but it became an echoed shtick that was getting in the way of conversation, so I decided to pull its teeth.

I'm not reading or participating in this thread beyond what I wrote prior and answered and, of course, this. I saw you'd nudged me with a quote and thought I'd answer this and let you know I'd be happy to have any conversation you'd like away from here, but won't return to the thread again.


Fair enough, and for some time now I've mostly put him on the back burner, not bothered with a thread of his, more often than not ignored the efforts at gaining my attention. I had the quote nudge in this thread, took a look to see what he could possibly be saying using me in a thread of his and found the sad answer in need of response, if only for someone who might not have any real context, that post of mine being a few years old by now.


Soldiers given a great deal of muscle memory, armed and in the company of similarly composed men will not infrequently find themselves overwhelmed by the moment of incoming fire. And if a soldier throws himself on a grenade to save his fellows only a fool would say, "Well, if he was brave he'd have thrown it back and charged after it with his rifle blazing" and all the assumptions that go into that sort of jackassery in narrative.

Anyway, good luck to you if you feel you can have something like a meaningful conversation with him. I'm for other roads. :cheers:

Fair enough!
I visit a couple of other web-sites and nobody is allowed to call any other a liar, or offer any other direct insult. I'll leave it there. See you on other threads, I hope.

 

[ok doser]

Are you telling us all that after all your shouting...

you thought i was shouting? :freak:

how peculiar

...that you can't answer for yourself?

sorry, i thought my answer was clear

i would hope to act courageously, in disregard of any fear for my own safety, in order to help others and end the threat

courage

noun
BrE /ˈkʌrɪdʒ/
; NAmE /ˈkɜːrɪdʒ/

the ability to do something dangerous, or to face pain or opposition, without showing fear

i would hope to act courageously, whatever that might mean in the circumstance

it might mean running out the back door, finding a phone or a cop and calling for help

it might mean trying to help others out the back, to hold the door open as long as there were others running toward it

it might mean trying to discern who else was in the store and the nature of the threat and get that info to LE




now it's your turn

what would a hero do?

 

[eider]

what would a hero do?

You have a part-time job working as a sales-floor assistant in a large shop. You completed an induction training course with the retailer and understand conditions such as the fact that employee-insurance protection plans only give cover for such as you up to 15 feet outside and beyond the retail building.

One evening you are collecting and stacking selection baskets in the main entrance area when you see four men of average build pushing a trolley full of store produce out of the main store entrance. As they leave the store the Electronic Article Surveillance system activates and a local audible alarm noise is heard. At this time the group of men start pushing the trolley away from the store very quickly, and one of these men turns and looks back at you and shouts, 'You stay there! You stay there or we'll hurt you bad!'

Lots of shoppers are standing still, transfixed by the alarm noise. They saw and heard everything as already described, and they are staring at you because you are wearing the retailer's uniform.

What would you do?

 

[eider]

you thought i was shouting? :freak:

how peculiar




sorry, i thought my answer was clear

i would hope to act courageously, in disregard of any fear for my own safety, in order to help others and end the threat




i would hope to act courageously, whatever that might mean in the circumstance

it might mean running out the back door, finding a phone or a cop and calling for help

it might mean trying to help others out the back, to hold the door open as long as there were others running toward it

it might mean trying to discern who else was in the store and the nature of the threat and get that info to LE




now it's your turn

what would a hero do?

So what would you do?

 

[ok doser]

nope, it's your turn

in this scenario

1. You are on a shopping trip to your local Food Market. You only have your handbag and you are pushing a selections trolley along the back aisle with a few items already collected. You hear a lot of shouting at the front of the store and a loud bang (probably a gunshot), followed by another. People start screaming and then there is another loud bang. A young man runs into your view, runs up to a Fire Escape door close by, pushes the panic-bar and runs out of the store and away. More people run past you and go out through that door, and away.You are standing five feet from this same door, and now there are more loud bangs happening at the front of the store.

what would a hero do?

 

[eider]

nope, it's your turn

in this scenario


what would a hero do?

But you never had the strength of character to tell us all what you would do.......... you messed about with might's or could's etc.........

You need to have the courage of your convictions, and talk straight.

And until you give us all a straight answer I will wait for it.

 

[eider]

what would a hero do?

Well, clearly you don't know....... for sure.

 

[ok doser]

...until you give us all a straight answer I will wait for it.

it's right there:

i would hope to act courageously, whatever that might mean in the circumstance

it might mean running out the back door, finding a phone or a cop and calling for help

it might mean trying to help others out the back, to hold the door open as long as there were others running toward it

it might mean trying to discern who else was in the store and the nature of the threat and get that info to LE

the choice i might make would depend on the situation and how i assessed it

if you want a straight answer, you have to present a more detailed scenario

for example:

You are on a shopping trip to your local Food Market. You only have your handbag and you are pushing a selections trolley along the back aisle with a few items already collected. You hear a lot of shouting at the front of the store and a loud bang (probably a gunshot), followed by another. People start screaming and then there is another loud bang. A young man runs into your view, runs up to a Fire Escape door close by, pushes the panic-bar and runs out of the store and away. More people run past you and go out through that door, and away.You are standing five feet from this same door, and now there are more loud bangs happening at the front of the store. More people are running toward the door, the threat seems to be confined to the front of the store

do you:

1. push past them and run out the door ahead of them
or
2. ensure that they make it out first

that one i can give a straight answer to

i would choose 2

 

[ok doser]

Well, clearly you don't know....... for sure.

no, you're not paying attention

by definition a hero would act courageously, in disregard of fear for his own safety in the face of danger

 

[eider]

no, you're not paying attention

by definition a hero would act courageously, in disregard of fear for his own safety in the face of danger

ok doser, so you're just going to keep repeating what a hero might do, but you can't bring yourself to explain what you would do.

Forget those scenarios because everyone can see that you're still stood by that fire-exit, transfixed to the spot and you have been unable to make a decision. That's 'Freeze' ......... there is a fight, flight and freeze response in humans at such times. Freeze is probably the most dangerous condition to be in so you might later be able to describe to folks that you 'stood your ground in the face of danger' or whatever.

Right, now let's make it easier for you...............

You are working as a uniformed security officer for a large shopping-mall, your duties are to carry out patrols in the public malls as a deterrent to crime, a reassurance for visitors and retailer's staff, and to offer customer care. You are provided with a knife/bullet resistant vest, a pistol sidearm, a Mall-to-Retailers radio, mobile phone, pen and notebook.

One afternoon you are standing at the Mall's main entrance, fully equipped as above, when a middle aged couple approach you, pointing to an older man of about 70 years who is just leaving the shopping complex and walking out into the Mall's car-park. The couple tell you that they saw this older man standing at a jewelry counter, pushing an expensive looking gold coloured watch into his right coat pocket as the only sales assistant present was turning to speak with another customer. He had then walked out of the jeweler's shop, out of the Mall and away, but still in your sight.

..... What would you do?

 

[eider]

1. push past them and run out the door ahead of them
or
2. ensure that they make it out first

that one i can give a straight answer to

i would choose 2

So you would run out of the door and away from the threat..... right?