Not All Elect Will Repent, Will they?

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Samie

New member
The elect are the children of the kingdom of heaven. But will they all repent?

Matthew 8:11-12 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The fact that there are from the elect who will be thrown into the lake of fire signifies there are from among the elect who will perish, and therefore did not repent, as per Christ's words, Repent or perish.

Luke 13:3 . . . except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Not so sure, but seems like some Calvinists are gnashing their teeth against this thread. It sorts of throws into the garbage bin their false doctrine that Calvinism's elect will all make it to the kingdom of heaven.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
Samie said:
The elect are the children of the kingdom of heaven. But will they all repent?

Matthew 8:11-12 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The fact that there are from the elect who will be thrown into the lake of fire signifies there are from among the elect who will perish, and therefore did not repent, as per Christ's words, Repent or perish.

Luke 13:3 . . . except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Not so sure, but seems like some Calvinists are gnashing their teeth against this thread. It sorts of throws into the garbage bin their false doctrine that Calvinism's elect will all make it to the kingdom of heaven.
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The context of the statement followed an encounter with a Gentile who was "of great faith"; and compared and contrasted that to His encounters with the "elect", ie: Israel (Jews, Hebrews).
Also, it says "cast into outer darkness", not "the lake of fire". The "Kingdom" will be a kingdom of LIGHT, not darkness.
Since Messiah was rejected by Israel, knowledge of Him was spread to the Gentiles.
 
S

Samie

New member
Thanks for your response, beameup.
beameup said:
The context of the statement followed an encounter with a Gentile who was "of great faith"; and compared and contrasted that to His encounters with the "elect", ie: Israel (Jews, Hebrews).
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So, we both agree that Israel is among God's elect, yet some of them will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, hence they will perish and therefore did not repent.
beameup said:
Also, it says "cast into outer darkness", not "the lake of fire".
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They're one and the same. Consider these words of Jesus, where He defines the place described as outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, the place where those who will perish will be thrown:

Matthew 13:40-43
40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world.
41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity;
42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father.

The outer darkness where the perishing elect will be thrown in the end of this world is a furnace of fire where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

beameup said:
The "Kingdom" will be a kingdom of LIGHT, not darkness.
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That's why the elect who will perish will be thrown outside into outer darkness, outside of the kingdom of light.

Quite clear that there are among the elect who will be thrown into the furnace of fire; simply proves that some elect will perish. The "P" in the TULIP of Calvinism is shown to be against Jesus' words in Matt 8:11-12.
 
beameup

beameup

New member
Samie said:
Thanks for your response, beameup.So, we both agree that Israel is among God's elect, yet some of them will be cast into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, hence they will perish and therefore did not repent.
Quite clear that there are among the elect who will be thrown into the furnace of fire; simply proves that some elect will perish. The "P" in the TULIP of Calvinism is shown to be against Jesus' words in Matt 8:11-12.
Click to expand...

I don't believe that Calvinists recognize that there is more than one group of "elect".
In the context of Jesus' ministry, he was preaching to Israel (God's elect) that the
Kingdom of God was "at hand". The 12 Disciples preached "repent and be baptized".
Calvinists believe that "the Church" has REPLACED "Israel", and there is no future Kingdom for Israel.
Paul teaches us that Israel has been "set aside", but will repent at the return of Jesus Christ.

In the case of Paul's gospel (for Gentiles), it was "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".
The promise to the Church is that we have a Heaven to look forward to, as opposed to the
Kingdom of God upon the Earth, centered in Israel.
Most Calvinists would say that the Kingdom on Earth is the Church and that Jesus is "ruling from Heaven".
Their beliefs rely heavily on "spiritualizing" most of the Old Testament.
 
S

Samie

New member
Hi beameup;

I have no contention against the idea that there is only one group of elect. And in this group, there are those who Jesus said will be thrown into outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Jesus defined this place where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth when the end of this world comes as furnace of fire. In Revelation, this is called the lake of fire.

In a nutshell, Jesus was saying that among the elect there are those whose portion will be the lake of fire, and hence will perish. And this goes against the teaching of Calvinism that no elect will perish. This teaching is specified in the "P" of Calvinism's TULIP.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
Samie said:
The elect are the children of the kingdom of heaven. But will they all repent?

Matthew 8:11-12 11 And I say unto you, That many shall come from the east and west, and shall sit down with Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, in the kingdom of heaven. 12 But the children of the kingdom shall be cast out into outer darkness: there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

The fact that there are from the elect who will be thrown into the lake of fire signifies there are from among the elect who will perish, and therefore did not repent, as per Christ's words, Repent or perish.

Luke 13:3 . . . except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Not so sure, but seems like some Calvinists are gnashing their teeth against this thread. It sorts of throws into the garbage bin their false doctrine that Calvinism's elect will all make it to the kingdom of heaven.
Click to expand...

Those verses of Scripture were written for the lost sheep of the House of Israel, only.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
beameup said:
I don't believe that Calvinists recognize that there is more than one group of "elect".
In the context of Jesus' ministry, he was preaching to Israel (God's elect) that the
Kingdom of God was "at hand". The 12 Disciples preached "repent and be baptized".
Calvinists believe that "the Church" has REPLACED "Israel", and there is no future Kingdom for Israel.
Paul teaches us that Israel has been "set aside", but will repent at the return of Jesus Christ.

In the case of Paul's gospel (for Gentiles), it was "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved".
The promise to the Church is that we have a Heaven to look forward to, as opposed to the
Kingdom of God upon the Earth, centered in Israel.
Most Calvinists would say that the Kingdom on Earth is the Church and that Jesus is "ruling from Heaven".
Their beliefs rely heavily on "spiritualizing" most of the Old Testament.
Click to expand...

Excellent post!!
 
S

Samie

New member
serpentdove said:
The elect have repented. :dizzy: If you'd like to be elect, repent. Acts 2:37, 38, Mark 1:4
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Where is that in Scriptures? The verses you used do not say repent and be elect. I guess it's Repent or perish, according to Jesus. Luke 13:3, 5.
 
S

Samie

New member
serpentdove said:
Not all Jews are Jacob (overcomers). :dizzy: Gen. 32:22–32; Hos. 12:3, 4

"OJ Simpson--not a Jew." ~ Adam Sandler
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Correct. Not all elect are overcomers. Some of the elect will end up in the furnace of fire, as Jesus Himself said. And that proves the "P" in Calvinism's TULIP is against what Jesus said in Matt 8:11-12.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Samie said:
The verses you used do not say repent and be elect.
Click to expand...

You'll find the greasy gracers
elvis.gif
agreeing with you :banana: not me. :rolleyes: These people think they'll be welcomed into God's holy heaven dirty diapers and all. They are mistaken (Mt 7:23, Re 21:27).

See:

Lordship
 
S

Samie

New member
serpentdove said:
If they end up in hell, they were not elect now were they? :dizzy: They were a false convert. :banana: Mt 7:20
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Read Matt 8:11-12 again. The elect are children of the kingdom. And among them are those who will be thrown into the outer darkness where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.
 
S

Samie

New member
Grosnick Marowbe said:
The book of Matthew was written for the Lost sheep of the House of Isreal, not the Body of Christ. (The Church)
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In case you missed what Scriptures say, the Body of Christ is made up of both Jews (those you call the Lost sheep of the House of Israel) and Gentiles. Just reminding.
 
G

Grosnick Marowbe

New member
Hall of Fame
serpentdove said:
You'll find the greasy gracers
elvis.gif
agreeing with you :banana: not me. :rolleyes: These people think they'll be welcomed into God's holy heaven dirty diapers and all. They are mistaken (Mt 7:23, Re 21:27).

See:

Lordship
Click to expand...

Those who are in the Body of Christ, are looked upon by God to be utterly sinless due to hearing the Gospel and placing ALL their faith In Christ as their Savior.
 
serpentdove

serpentdove

BANNED
Banned
Samie said:
Read Matt 8:11-12 again. The elect are children of the kingdom.
Click to expand...
You're a Calvinist. :freak: I am not. :poly:

See:

Does God Elect Everyone?
Predestination and Will: How are predestination and election connected with foreknowledge?


"I. The Miracles of Jesus (8:1–17, 23–34)
A. Curing the sick (8:1–17, 28–34)
1. A leper (8:1–4)
a. The cry (8:1–2): He begs the Savior to heal him.
b. The compassion (8:3) : Jesus restores the man by the touch of his hand.
c. The command (8:4) : The cleansed leper is instructed to tell no one about his miracle.
2. A centurion’s servant (8:5–13)
a. The favor desired by the centurion (8:5–7): He wants Jesus to visit his home and heal his servant, which the Lord agrees to do.
b. The faith demonstrated by the centurion (8:8–13)
(1) The confidence (8:8–9): He feels the Lord can heal the servant without even coming to his home!
(2) The commendation (8:10) : Jesus commends him for so much faith!
(3) The conclusion (8:11–12): Jesus says his kind of faith will result in the eventual salvation of a number of Gentiles, while many faithless Jews will suffer eternal loss.
(4) The cure (8:13) : The servant is healed at that very hour." Willmington, H. L. (1999). The Outline Bible (Mt 8). Wheaton, IL: Tyndale House Publishers.
 
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