New experience for a muslim

[Mulla Sadra]

Isaiah is mentioned in Isalm. Read this link.



It means that God begets our spirit.

How else do you imagine that your spirit came into existence?



Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.

What is the image and likeness of God, if not spirit?



The prophet Isa taught God is our Father:

Matthew 23:9 And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.

Another question: What is the revelation given to Isa?

2:136 We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Isma'il, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them . . .

1- Actually No he wasn't, the people mentioned in the wiki are IbnuKatheer and Al-Kiasa'e, but are no prophets (or Imams or even companions of the prophet), and the second "Kisaei" are known of taking stories from the bible without checking if there was any kind of verification in them anywhere in Islamic scriptures.

2- what do you imagine by "beget" accurately ? as in something getting out of something ? as in a mother giving a child ? like in something developing from something ?
What we say that God way of giving this world is "Allah says be so be it", there's no kind of mechanism that pure existence existed in.
Yes, there's a mechanism of Cause and Effect thereafter where the first cause is the existence that Allah made with no mechanism but his Masheea'ah (willing).
But God begetting thing, is not of our theology.
See the first sentence, I gave you 3 ways of interpreting "beget" and its mechanism (I am not sure if you imagine one of them or else, but I will tell you why these are wrong) :
1- it is something getting out of something, then allah must have an XYZ(and t) and the thing getting out of it have one, this would have to make us prove two thing we MUST deny : 1- Allah got a place which means Allah is under the meaning of place, then we must ask what was first Allah or the place Allah is in ? and who made the place ? 2- that this world have an XYZT but Quran says that this universe expands : And the universe [sky] We constructed with strength, and indeed, We are [its] expander.
2- that it is a beget like a mother giving a child, this would mean that God have this meaning with that mom and that God have the same pain that the mother have, which is wrong.
3- if it is developing from him, then we have two bad conclusions first God is something at a time and something else at another time the other is that creatures are now developing with God means they are a part from god which is not right.

3- there's a Hadeeth: Muhammad PBUH&H said when someone hit someone on his face "O' Man don't hit your brother because Allah created Adam image as his" and you can see how ambiguous this Hadeeth (is his about the person being hit, or about Allah), and the meaning is also somewhat in Quran it says "Then He proportioned him and breathed into him from His [created] soul and made for you hearing and vision and hearts; little are you grateful."
and most Muslims (but Wahhabis) say that the "image" and "soul" + Allah is a way to honor those two (there's a metaphor style in arabic where you add something to Allah to mean it is honorable, like when we say about Kaaba House of Allah, but it doesn't mean it is REALLY house of Allah ! but it means that the house is honorable )
Like in story of prophet Salih he said to Thamud (in Quran) : There has come to you clear evidence from your Lord. This is the she-camel of Allah [sent] to you as a sign. So leave her to eat within Allah 's land and do not touch her with harm.
that doesn't mean that the camel is really of Allah ! it just mean it is honorable.
thats why you see that the reason of honor is given thereafter, in Quran about soul it said "made for you hearing and vision and hearts" which are some of the powers seized under soul.
and also the camel , same thing.
So it is not likeness of Allah.

4- Revelations are three types in Islamic Philosophy :

• One : Revelation given to ordinary human (thoughts and such) which human get to using tools that god gave them ..... brain and this revelation is also from god under law of "degree between two degrees"
• Two : Revelation given to righteous people, which is a revelation when they get to a certain degree of Mysticism where They see anything but god as a revelation and have the ability to be given some of the news of future and news of existence, and these news are not as affirmative as given to prophets and Imams because as you can see that degree of worshiping is not one. Some prophets needed to get to that degree and then became prophets. this revelation is "mental" - the arabic terminology is more accurate -. And prophets, Imams and righteous people are part of this type.
• Three : Revelation as in the verse you quoted is a revelation of talking (not mental) where God speaks to a human being, and this kind is for messengers of Allah (the first messenger is Noah and the last is Muhammad, Jesus is a messenger), and its mechanism differs from one prophets to the other, while Moses was talked to by a the tree in Sina'a (in the sacred valley Tuwa) for some days, Gabriel came to Muhammad for years for his message. also this is an affirmative message and it starts a Sharia (way of worship) with it that changes the one before it, just like Jesus changed the Sharia of Judah before him, and like Muhammad changed the Sharia of Abraham and Jesus before him. and there's no Sharia thereafter, which makes sense.

Sorry for long answer...

 

[Mulla Sadra]

Welcome Mulla. We are, or many of us are, a people who have recieved everlasting life [not by hard study] but as a free gift...does that interest you?

I said : Don't try to convert me on surprise :sheep:

but anyways speak out if you are not trying to convet me
:drum:

 

[Mulla Sadra]

Why did they kill your UNCLE ?

A kind Iraqi Shi'ite in the middle of a city of Sunni people that came to be under Qaeda control at that time.
obvious I guess..

 

[chrysostom]

Alsalamu Alukum

welcome to tol

please translate Alsalamu Alukum for us

 

[Mulla Sadra]

Alsalamu Alukum

welcome to tol

please translate Alsalamu Alukum for us

A republican ! - Duh! half of Americans are republicans -

It means may peace be upon those who hear (read) and it talks about the intentions of a human for humans. (thats why some extremists say that this word shouldn't be said to anyone but a muslims, but those guys are idiots anyways).

PBUH&H = Peace and blessings (prayers) be upon him and his household.
which means as qurans says :
It is He who confers blessing upon you, and His angels [ask Him to do so] that He may bring you out from darknesses into the light. And ever is He, to the believers, Merciful.

first : Alsalamu Alukum is a DUTY (means in Islamic Fiqh it is a MUST) between a human and the other, a muslim must tell everyone who is near him Alsalamu Alukum (even if he didn't know him, or what is his religion) and Quran says :
And when you are greeted with a greeting, greet [in return] with one better than it or [at least] return it [in a like manner]. Indeed, Allah is ever, over all things, an Accountant.
so if someone tells me Alsalamu Alukum I must at least say that or go more and says Wa Alukum Alsalam W Rahmat Allah W Barakatuh which means peace + mercy + bless.
Second : Prayer on the prophet is also a duty, as Quran says :
Indeed, Allah confers blessing upon the Prophet, and His angels [ask Him to do so]. O you who have believed, ask [ Allah to confer] blessing upon him and ask [ Allah to grant him] peace.
Third : Peace is one of Allah's 99 names.

I hope my answer was more than enough

 

[chrysostom]

I really like that saying
Alsalamu Alukum
I learned it in India
but
I had to be able to recognize who I was addressing
I had to say nomaste
if
they were Hindu

 

[Totton Linnet]

I said : Don't try to convert me on surprise :sheep:

but anyways speak out if you are not trying to convet me
:drum:

C'mon don't kid me.....you've come here to convert us, haven't you....

I would LOVE to introduce you to Jesus, it is what I do.

 

[Mulla Sadra]

C'mon don't kid me.....you've come here to convert us, haven't you....

I would LOVE to introduce you to Jesus, it is what I do.

Convert .. how much are you guys ??
ah 10142 ..
so convert 10142 christian to Islam
They must make me a prophet !!
(I didn't convert a sunni to a shi'ite and that was easier)

No actually I was looking for a theology website, the weird thing that after looking more is there anykind of forum that is not sided with someone, like a forum that got theists agnostics atheists and everyone ?
guess Arabs transmitted this disease to everyone :think:

 

[Town Heretic]

Why do you have to presume?

Oh a Muslim! Interesting and welcome!

Rumor has it that sometime tomorrow x will reenact The Siege of Krishnapur. lain:

Alsalamu Alukum, or just hello

I am a Shi'ite Muslim, a kinda believer of Transcendent theosophy of Mulla Sadra...you can call me "Mulla" or "Sadra" or "Salam" or "Abdulsalam" or whatever u want.

Welcome, Mulla. I've read your Quaran. Good luck trying to convince the rank and file here that Islam wasn't singularly founded to burn Western civilization to the ground.

I've already noted that 1.6 billion adherents should have set quite a larger fire by now were that the case, but you can't teach some people and I'm not entirely certain of the rest.

Welcome aboard. :e4e:

 

[Ezekel]

What are your beliefs about Jesus, and what books do you consider authoritative in regards to doctrine?

 

[Mulla Sadra]

What are your beliefs about Jesus, and what books do you consider authoritative in regards to doctrine?

Quran (Surat Maryam) after the mentioning of how Mary gave Jesus birth :
Then she brought him to her people, carrying him. They said, "O Mary, you have certainly done a thing unprecedented. O sister of Aaron, your father was not a man of evil, nor was your mother unchaste." So she pointed to him. They said, "How can we speak to one who is in the cradle a child?" [Jesus] said, "Indeed, I am the servant of Allah . He has given me the Scripture and made me a prophet. And He has made me blessed wherever I am and has enjoined upon me prayer and blessing as long as I remain alive And [made me] dutiful to my mother, and He has not made me a wretched tyrant. And peace is on me the day I was born and the day I will die and the day I am raised alive." That is Jesus, the son of Mary - the word of truth about which they are in dispute. It is not [befitting] for Allah to take a son; exalted is He! When He decrees an affair, He only says to it, "Be," and it is. [Jesus said], "And indeed, Allah is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is a straight path." Then the factions differed [concerning Jesus] from among them, so woe to those who disbelieved - from the scene of a tremendous Day.

-----

The problem with books is that they are in Arabic, anyways the sources of Islamic belief is :
1- Quran -- Quran is not that easy to interpret and English translations are interpretations and NOT translations because the language is full of metaphors in Quran, I usually understand Quran using these books : Tafsir-Mizan for Allamah Tabataba'ei, From Quran's Revelation for Sayyid Fadhluallah and my own understanding. Quran is from Allah as a scripture but not everyone understand the meaning same way, that made Sunni Sunni and Shia Shia.
2- Sunnah (the Hadeeth of the prophet, Imams and Companions) -- something like the bible but more conflicted, We have Shia Books Sunna Books, I guess if you talk to me you can bring a hadeeth from any book but don't expect I accept it fully because for every Cleric there's a way to govern the hadeeth if right or wrong, one guy wrote more than 200 rule in one book, they call it "Men Science" (the name is not as weird in Arabic) in clergy, senior clerics study it (I am no senior cleric).
3- Mind -- Philosophical/Logical mind. guess more of an Aristotle kind of logic.
4- Acceptance -- means that Muslims since Muhammad all of them accepted such case or theology, it is rare to find this kind of evidence because it is relative, like Hijab, while 90% of clerics Shia or Sunna say it is a DUTY, there's still a 10% who say it is not !

so Quran, and bring any Hadeeth so I can check it up (only if you have Bihar Al-Anwar - a 121 volume book that almost have all Shia hadeeth in - or Musnad Ahmad - a 30 volume book with most of the Sunni Hadeeth - or something else like that, after that it wouldn't be easy to track the hadeeth .... don't forget these books are full Islamic Traditions for the last 14 centuries affected by governments , other theology like Christianity, Judaism and Zoroastrianism and The people transmitting the hadeeth to us.).

And some people on Youtube sometimes go to Tabari and such, these are Historical books not Hadeeth books, the guy who write it try to make tracking of events from several points of view, you would find something in the beginning of the page and the opposite in the end of it, so also if a hadeeth is there it is not certainly right and must be checked.

PS: I don't believe in a Hadeeth book which is all right (Sunni people do).

little complicated right ?

 

[Mulla Sadra]

Rumor has it that sometime tomorrow x will reenact The Siege of Krishnapur. lain:



Welcome, Mulla. I've read your Quaran. Good luck trying to convince the rank and file here that Islam wasn't singularly founded to burn Western civilization to the ground.

I've already noted that 1.6 billion adherents should have set quite a larger fire by now were that the case, but you can't teach some people and I'm not entirely certain of the rest.

Welcome aboard. :e4e:

Well they should separate theology from the history of it, [if we burned Western Civilization] the Arabic/Islamic Civilization was the one to burn not the theology.
hopefully everyone here is bright enough to do the comparison.

if some Muslim idiot killed someone because he is atheist, that doesn't mean that the Tawhid of Muslims is wrong, it means that that muslim's just ... idiot.

 

[Selaphiel]

Welcome. I agree with the sentiment that we need moderate Muslim presence on this forum. I'm afraid that you will have to be able to take some flak though.

Great name by the way. I find Mulla Sadra to be a fascinating thinker. I'm personally interested in process philosophy, and Sadra's idea of substantial motion is somewhat similar.

:e4e:

 

[chrysostom]

Well they should separate theology from the history of it, [if we burned Western Civilization] the Arabic/Islamic Civilization was the one to burn not the theology.
hopefully everyone here is bright enough to do the comparison.

if some Muslim idiot killed someone because he is atheist, that doesn't mean that the Tawhid of Muslims is wrong, it means that that muslim's just ... idiot.

so why are there so many ...idiots?

 

[Mulla Sadra]

so why are there so many ...idiots?

Well, before answering everyone must understand that when I answer I try to take many things to help my vision or my answer, so I usually elaborate even in answering a question as easy as "What is your name?" - I actually answer with the full 36 name getting me to Imam Ali the cousin of the prophet -
(I guess everyone can see I can get to boring level of detailing)

So, Why do we have so much idiots ... hmmm, how much idiots do you have in Western world ? (those interested in Theology idiots or maybe .... Music, you can see how some people start off even if they didn't hear the song of X band, start off giving them names and such because they see people do it).

even when we have this Hadeeth from Imam Reza :
O' Ibn Abi Mahmood, a believer belief [ from me : in Islam there's a believer and a Muslim, two degrees one part of the other, Believer is greater ] is threatened when he sees that a big rock is but a small stone and then after talks [curse] those who don't think so, those are not our Shia and we leave them alone.

So, the Theology state using bold and hard line, that we are not able to curse, not then kill.

then Mr. Salam, why do you have so much idiots, I say it is one of the bad sides of having too much religious people in one small area having the same religion, and everyone puts his mindset to his religion.

so instead of 100 million really religious christian in your nation, We have 1.6 billion who all think they are religious from prostitute to cleric.

you can see how big the difference is, so when you talk about Islam you talk about a religion that got mixed up with nationality, empires [Sunni people find the emperors who killed people in their "Fath" - crusades - as great righteous one]and society.

then there's that Arabs weren't an Umma (full nation) (don't know what is the terminology in English Sociology) before Islam, they were herds, tribes and countries at best.

then they have this heavy theology which says that its from Allah, and soon everyone is under that theology, then thereafter they go out up to Chechen, they start to talk with everybody else, they find themselves empty, the only thing they have is this Islam that is simple and complicated in the same way, they had to get affected by other, soon how much each muslim got effected by others made margins like sects, nationalities and countries.

which also makes more idiots.

so in a simple sentence , We have a full nation of religious with the same ration of idiots you have in your nations (religious or non-religious)

and then , there's the theology, the cleric is a politician and the politician is a cleric, they tried to make us secularist, but they did a lousy job, so sometimes they hand is politics but they give it the prophet's ring. (you also do that somewhere in your countries, but not as widely and sacred as in our Nation).

do you feel okay with this answer ?

 

[vegascowboy]

Alsalamu Alukum, or just hello

I am a Shi'ite Muslim, a kinda believer of Transcendent theosophy of Mulla Sadra.
I say "kinda" because I weren't into theology or philosophy until just less than a year (I am 16 BTW).
I got myself into other subjects since 11, Politics, social life, military science, Sunni-Shia debate and ME history, and most extensively I got the best information about these subjects from forums, Discussion and Debate.
and soon I had my enough, and made my own theory of each subject.
And when I got into theology, I tried to get into such Arabic forums, but we have four types of forums in Arabic language, first is Sunni forums which would kill any Shi'ite whatever he says, second is Shi'ite forums which would make anyone who slightly disagrees a Sunni, third is Atheist forums which bring all kind of people who had a problem in their life with a religious person, and they want to make their hatred a theology, the fourth type are the liberal forums, which are seriously lacking good discussion, because they all try to make themselves "peace-loving", in a debate whoever else must be trying to convince you, not play PlayStation with you, and as much as we need Discussion in Politics, we need Debate in Religion or Theology.

Anyways that sums it all up, all I can say :
1- you can call me "Mulla" or "Sadra" or "Salam" or "Abdulsalam" or whatever u want.
2- I am not that great theologian, so be easy with me don't try to convert me on surprise
3- English is my second language, if you try to challenge it too much, I would have to go more to Google Translate or Wikipedia.
4- I have very important exams during the next 2.5 months, so I will be seriously busy (as much as I know for now, I will be limited to zero hours daily internet usage).

but anyways, if not that exams I would have opened a topic about Islam, thundering question about it on me would help me know it better I guess, but the matter is, as I was pushed by mind to open this topic for now and not leave this forum till the end of exams, you can ask me here and I would be happy to answer (I have, well, really advanced information about my religion), but don't expect a very fast answer.

so, if someone have a grudge on QAEDA, I hate them, they killed my uncle for matter of fact, so don't hate me because of them.... just clearing out a stereotype

so, thats it....

What are your thoughts on Israel?

 

[Mulla Sadra]

What are your thoughts on Israel?

As a Nationalist Arab whom his land was stolen ?
or as a Muslim in theology ?

the first is obvious (PS: I am a Pan-Arab)

the second, I don't have a problem with Jews only if they start war on me, and I am no Nazist so the aftermath of their slaughter in Europe must be held on me. they waged war and they don't want peace however they tried to look peaceful.
and also, they are an atheist racial country, most of the Zionists are atheists, and the theist Jews have good relations with muslims but the Zionists.
I don't like atheist countries, but not surely I am in favor in waging war against them because they are just atheists.

 

[Mulla Sadra]

Well they should separate theology from the history of it, [if we burned Western Civilization] the Arabic/Islamic Civilization was the one to burn not the theology.
hopefully everyone here is bright enough to do the comparison.

if some Muslim idiot killed someone because he is atheist, that doesn't mean that the Tawhid of Muslims is wrong, it means that that muslim's just ... idiot.

What is Process philosophy ?

Mulla Sadra is the greatest philosopher in Islam, after Ibn-Rush era, if not even the greatest ever.

He have many theories that have clues from Quran.

 

[vegascowboy]

As a Nationalist Arab whom his land was stolen ?

With all due respect, in what way was your land stolen? And, has this ever happened to the Jewish people?

 

[Mulla Sadra]

With all due respect, in what way was your land stolen? And, has this ever happened to the Jewish people?

if it did happen, who stole it Arabs ? Muslims ?