New atheist here

[Shibby]

Prove to me there is a God without using scripture.

 

[Truppenzwei]

Here's the problem with your questions that aren't really questions. If I can't prove to you why I don't believe then by default I should just believe. Well which do I believe? By default I should just pick Christianity since my global positioning? All this is pretty much just Pascal's wager. You are asking me to prove a non-existence. The burden of proof is not on me. I am not the one making the claim that something exists.

By saying you are an atheist you are saying there is definitely no god. If however you are saying you don't know then that would be an agnostic.

I don't mind what you believe I'm just asking you to explain it.

I'll try and simplify the questions for you as you seem to have trouble grasping a question - either that or you are being deliberately obtuse to dodge the questions.

Question 1:
Is there a God?
Options;
a) Yes
b) No
c) Maybe

What is your answer a, b or c?

And whichever one you pick, Could you please explain why that is your answer?

Regards
T.

 

[Shibby]

No, you are trying to bait me into discussing things within your theological world.

I give you this as an example, this is Dawkins 7 point atheist scale.

1. Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
2. De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
3. Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
4. Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
5. Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
6. De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
7. Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.


I am a 6. To be a 1 or 7 you would have to be intellectually dishonest.

 

[Truppenzwei]

No, you are trying to bait me into discussing things within your theological world.

I give you this as an example, this is Dawkins 7 point atheist scale.

1. Strong Theist: I do not question the existence of God, I KNOW he exists.
2. De-facto Theist: I cannot know for certain but I strongly believe in God and I live my life on the assumption that he is there.
3. Weak Theist: I am very uncertain, but I am inclined to believe in God.
4. Pure Agnostic: God’s existence and non-existence are exactly equiprobable.
5. Weak Atheist: I do not know whether God exists but I’m inclined to be skeptical.
6. De-facto Atheist: I cannot know for certain but I think God is very improbable and I live my life under the assumption that he is not there.
7. Strong Atheist: I am 100% sure that there is no God.


I am a 6. To be a 1 or 7 you would have to be intellectually dishonest.

If you want to talk about intellectual dishonesty then dawkins is definitely your man.

So you don't know if there is or isn't a god - ergo you are an agnostic. Thanks for clearing that up.

I questioned the existence of God and now know he exists - where does that put me on your little friends scale?

Regards
T.

 

[DoogieTalons]

I disagree with this scale, I am sure there is no God.

I'm not being intellectually dishonest when I say am am sure there is no Santa.

The fact is this, I know there is no God. I am happy with this knowledge and I am happy that I have this conclusion.

We can drive ourselves mad with the metaphysical questions of whether my desk really is a desk and if it's all an arrangement of energy why don't I pass through it blah blah blah... we can only work with what we have.

Religion, holds no water, it asks for faith and I have none.

There is no God and there never was, Man invented the concept of God and thats all we can possibly know.

 

[Truppenzwei]

I disagree with this scale, I am sure there is no God.

I'm not being intellectually dishonest when I say am am sure there is no Santa.

The fact is this, I know there is no God. I am happy with this knowledge and I am happy that I have this conclusion.

We can drive ourselves mad with the metaphysical questions of whether my desk really is a desk and if it's all an arrangement of energy why don't I pass through it blah blah blah... we can only work with what we have.

Religion, holds no water, it asks for faith and I have none.

There is no God and there never was, Man invented the concept of God and thats all we can possibly know.

There you go Shibby,

I'm totally sure that doogie is saying what he believes. I might think he is mistaken in his belief but I don't think he is being intellectually dishonest about it.

What about you?

Regards
T.

 

[IoverE]

Please just answer the question.

Regards
T.

Trupp,
Could you please tell us why you don't believe in purple snarfwidgets? Please in detail, explain what led you away from believing in snarfwidgets. Can you really not see how ridiculous your question is?

 

[Truppenzwei]

Trupp,
Could you please tell us why you don't believe in purple snarfwidgets? Please in detail, explain what led you away from believing in snarfwidgets. Can you really not see how ridiculous your question is?

I don't know if snarfwidgets exist or not - so I would have to say I was agnostic about them. What I am not doing is claiming that they don't exist, going onto a site of people who claim they do exist and saying "snarfwidgets Don't exist" and then not giving any reasons why I assert what I assert.

Glad to see you are back IoverE.

Regards
T.

 

[Shibby]

If you want to talk about intellectual dishonesty then dawkins is definitely your man.

So you don't know if there is or isn't a god - ergo you are an agnostic. Thanks for clearing that up.

I questioned the existence of God and now know he exists - where does that put me on your little friends scale?

Regards
T.

Should I go ahead give you a label as fact or should I let you say what you are? My problem with calling myself agnostic is that you will be making completely different assumptions of me and the view points are further from mine than atheistic ones. It's a loose, loose situation. You are so indoctrinated that it's all about the labels and the only "right" label is Christianity. Ultimately I call my self nothing. I am not a atheist, agnostic, deist... I am Shibby. I didn't make these labels and adhering to them only makes others happy. Using the atheist label is what most closely fits to my views and it allows me to move onto more important issues than trying to explain my label. I know others talk about how it just helps to not have to quantify every last word. I agree with that. I don't have a problem with Doogie saying he knows there is no god. I don't agree with it. If he knew there was no god, he would be able to show it without a shadow of doubt. Just like anyone that knows there is a god, has a way of showing it without of a shadow of doubt. If either of these were true we wouldn't be having this conversation.

 

[Truppenzwei]

Should I go ahead give you a label as fact or should I let you say what you are? My problem with calling myself agnostic is that you will be making completely different assumptions of me and the view points are further from mine than atheistic ones. It's a loose, loose situation. You are so indoctrinated that it's all about the labels and the only "right" label is Christianity. Ultimately I call my self nothing. I am not a atheist, agnostic, deist... I am Shibby. I didn't make these labels and adhering to them only makes others happy. Using the atheist label is what most closely fits to my views and it allows me to move onto more important issues than trying to explain my label. I know others talk about how it just helps to not have to quantify every last word. I agree with that. I don't have a problem with Doogie saying he knows there is no god. I don't agree with it. If he knew there was no god, he would be able to show it without a shadow of doubt. Just like anyone that knows there is a god, has a way of showing it without of a shadow of doubt. If either of these were true we wouldn't be having this conversation.

You are correct when you say labels aren't helpful with describing our views accurately. Thus I am perplexed why, when I asked you to clarify your beliefs/views, rather than clarifying them you have done nothing but avoid answering my request. I am more than happy to class you as other.

Perhaps now you would be willing to actually state your views?

Regards
T.

 

[Shibby]

What I am not doing is claiming that they don't exist, going onto a site of people who claim they do exist and saying "snarfwidgets Don't exist" and then not giving any reasons why I assert what I assert.

What is it with all the assumptions. Do you hate people because of their skin color too? I didn't come here to tell people they were wrong. I have pretty much (maybe completely, I can't remember) not posted in any theological threads. If I did post it was only to get clarification of a post. I am here to learn more about the sociological effects of Christianity. Within this I will get into there being more than one way to look at things. Kind of a devil advocate of sorts. I do not approach anything in a manner of trying to change anyone to atheism. I will however not passively sit by when accusations about non-believers are falsely being made.

 

[Truppenzwei]

What is it with all the assumptions. Do you hate people because of their skin color too? I didn't come here to tell people they were wrong. I have pretty much (maybe completely, I can't remember) not posted in any theological threads. If I did post it was only to get clarification of a post. I am here to learn more about the sociological effects of Christianity. Within this I will get into there being more than one way to look at things. Kind of a devil advocate of sorts. I do not approach anything in a manner of trying to change anyone to atheism. I will however not passively sit by when accusations about non-believers are falsely being made.

I assumed from your earlier choice of identfying your affiliation as atheist that you were an atheist - an assumption, but a reasonable one.

Someone who defines himself publicly as an atheist on a theist website is by definition saying to the majority of users that they are wrong in what they believe, and should be prepared for the consequences of that definition.

Now that you have changed the tag to other it shouldn't be an issue.

I don't hate atheists at all. I don't hate anyone as far as I am aware, other than myself at times.

Regards
T.

 

[Shibby]

You are correct when you say labels aren't helpful with describing our views accurately. Thus I am perplexed why, when I asked you to clarify your beliefs/views, rather than clarifying them you have done nothing but avoid answering my request. I am more than happy to class you as other.

Perhaps now you would be willing to actually state your views?

Regards
T.

I don't like to state overall views. I don't like painting a broad brush over anything I don't want people to do the same to me. I will give my view on specifics, but not on just as an overall kind of thing.

 

[Shibby]

I assumed from your earlier choice of identfying your affiliation as atheist that you were an atheist - an assumption, but a reasonable one.

Someone who defines himself publicly as an atheist on a theist website is by definition saying to the majority of users that they are wrong in what they believe, and should be prepared for the consequences of that definition.

Now that you have changed the tag to other it shouldn't be an issue.

I don't hate atheists at all. I don't hate anyone as far as I am aware, other than myself at times.

Regards
T.

That did cause confusion in this instance. I am just use to atheism giving my a good enough base model to work from to save time since it is probably about 90% how I view things. I understand the conflict of being an atheist on a theist board. That's why I avoid it to an extent since I'm not here for a fight.

 

[Truppenzwei]

That did cause confusion in this instance. I am just use to atheism giving my a good enough base model to work from to save time since it is probably about 90% how I view things. I understand the conflict of being an atheist on a theist board. That's why I avoid it to an extent since I'm not here for a fight.

fair nuff

Regards
T.

 

[Shibby]

I have the search function now, YAY!!!arty: