God's Truth
New member
Amen.
If you feel this is a dead horse, feel free not to post. Someone asked me to begin this debate so here it goes.
At what point does someone go from being lost to saved?
In this thread I would like to determine the point of salvation. I know God can save whomever he wants but I'm hopping we can establish God's plan for how man becomes a Christian. Surely God has revealed it to us and given us examples of conversions to better understand how. Obviously there is a lot to this so it will be a tall order to get our points across in this format. I appreciate everyone's patience and understanding.
I would like start off with at what point did Jesus say someone is saved.
Mark 16:16 Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned.
The language is simple. If salvation comes after belief Jesus would have said "whoever believes is saved and then should be baptized".
Your words brought 1 Peter 3 to mind, especially 1 Peter 3:21 and around that area. I have always thought of water baptism as a heart action, with the public act being a profession of public faith. I see it like a wedding ceremony of sorts. We are binding ourselves through faith to Jesus and publicly declaring that Love.
Really? Why aren't we seeing this?
Mark 16:17 And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; 18 They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.
I would suggest to you "public profession of faith" is mans twist on scripture. The bible never tells us it's a public profession. By saying that's all it is, makes it easy to prove it's not necessary.
And yet you erroneously assert THEIR passages about The Spirit's leading THEM unto all THEIR truth, applies to you.
Your pals won't correct you, but you are confusing "programs."
Of course, your closed mind to anyone you end up viewing thru animosity is just one more proof yours is not the Spirit leading you unto all truth.
Get well soon, GD.
The only way we know we are saved is that we are baptized with the Holy Spirit.
I didn't know you were this confused.
Your argument is moot because the Holy Spirit was not yet given when Jesus said that in Mark 16:16.
A person needs to be baptized in the name of Jesus and receive the Holy Spirit or else at that time they were not saved and being only baptized in the name of Jesus meant not receiving the Holy Spirit as is expected. We have to have the Holy Spirit to be saved.
Acts 8:14 When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them. 15When they arrived, they prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, 16because the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them; they simply been baptized into the name of the Lord Jesus.
Hi and the Greek word SHALL BE SAVED / SOZO is in the Greek FUTURE TENSE , PASSIVE VOICE and in the Indicative mood !!
Why is the Greek FUTURE TENSE USED HERE ?
And explain verse 17 and 18 , and did this happening TODAY ??
No WAY , so are you DISHONEST ??
So water BAPTISM saved and not the BLOOD and where is there FAITH in Christ in Mark 16:16-18 ??
And in verse 20 are SINGS FOLLOWING YOU ?
dan p
Is this really necessary?No WAY , so are you DISHONEST ??
On the contrary, the public profession is valid in Scripture - but it is Israel's...
Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
In contrast to...
John 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 9:23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
Thus, we read of the Lord's Words to Israel...
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Acts 17:11,12.
On the contrary, the public profession is valid in Scripture - but it is Israel's...
Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.
In contrast to...
John 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 9:23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.
Thus, we read of the Lord's Words to Israel...
Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Acts 17:11,12.
Is this Greek future tense?
1 Cor. 15:2 and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain.
Is this really necessary?
Nope, I pointed it out because I do know the difference.
Not even a good try, there danny boy. :baby:
You and Evil are both small men who can't stand that I point that out. Too bad.
I'm not offended, I would rather have a name calling free discussion.Sorry that I offend you
BUT if you believe that BAPTISM saved and not the BLOOD that Jesus shed , are you being dishonest ??
Please tell me what baptism is/does with scriptural support.To me , it shows that you do not understand what Baptism really means ?
I can tell you really haven't thought about what I said. I have showed you two situations where the bible says they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. I will suggest to you there are no other place were The bible says they were baptized with the Holy Spirit. Every other giving of the Holy Spirit was by the laying of hands.
You are right. I don't disagree. In this case it all happened at the same time.I can prove with scripture that baptism with the Holy Spirit, and the out "pouring" of the Spirit, and the receiving the Holy Spirit, and being saved, and speaking in tongues can all be at the same occurrence.
There are about 11 other conversions in the bible, including Paul. Were they all saved the same way as Cornelius? If not, why?With all these scriptures I am going to prove my beliefs, and they are all about Cornelius and his household.
That is correct but it supports my point. After the Spirit was given, if those people did what Jesus said they will be saved and we can see 3,000 were saved by believing and being baptized. Acts 2:41
When was the Holy Spirit given to man?
I'm not offended, I would rather have a name calling free discussion.
I didn't say we are not saved by the blood of Christ. I absolutely believe we are. What I want to determine is how do we access that blood.
Please tell me what baptism is/does with scriptural support.
I can't tell you how good it is to hear you say that. I have debated people before who believe one must be water baptized before receiving the Holy Spirit and they just would not say they agree that it happened for Cornelius and his whole household.You are right. I don't disagree. In this case it all happened at the same time.
There are about 11 other conversions in the bible, including Paul. Were they all saved the same way as Cornelius? If not, why?