ECT Moment of Salvation Compared to Water Baptism

[jamie]

At what point does someone go from being lost to saved?

Jesus explained to Nicodemus and anyone else who will listen and act: "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:5-6)

 

[Danoh]

Israel, "to whom pertain the adoption, the glory, the covenants, the giving of the law, the service of God, and the promises." (Romans 9:4)

:chuckle:

No.

Their adoption is the issue of that day when they will be acknowledged by God as no more children, but adult sons.

This is why Paul even mentions their adoption to begin with, their in that "what about Israel?" chapter - because they never had it.

In other words - because God is NOT through with Israel.

Their Bar Mitzvah points to that day, one day.

Well, likewise with the Body.

Only our adoption - our acknowledgement in God's eyes, from children of God, to adult sons of God - both of those go from the one to the other, the very moment we trust that Christ died for our sins - because He Himself is a Son - THE Son.

Body members become children of God in the moment we trust that Christ died for our sins.

But in that same moment, we are placed by the Spirit into Christ's Adult Sonship WITH Him - no more children but Adult Sons.

All that remains is the adoption of our physical body - one day.

Israel's as too their version of that...will be theirs "in a day."

This adoption issue is one of the difference between a Child as a Potential Heir, and "a day" when he is acknowledged as an Adult Son, as An Heir.

It is not that other sense of adoption - that of taking in a stranger as one's own.

But hey, you go with where you are fully persuaded in your own mind until you come to understand, followed by your believing in, otherwise.

For whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.

Romans 14 in the spirit of Romans 5:8 towards ya.

 

[Danoh]

Jesus explained to Nicodemus and anyone else who will listen and act: "Most assuredly I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit." (John 3:5-6)

No.

He explained that to "a ruler of Israel."

Here, download and read the following short pdf on the "Born Again" issue...

"Do You Really Want To Be Born Again?"

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d21e04_b97fc8d3312c4e8092e6bcc484823cbd.pdf

Rom. 14:5 towards ya; in memory of Rom. 5:8.

 

[jsanford108]

Good job Turbosixx and God's Truth for having such a civil discussion.

I thought you both made very good points, and honestly, I think you both consistently gave answers that were pertinent to the discussion.

So here is my cent's worth for the discussion.

Water baptism is necessary. We see in Matthew 28 that Christ commands the Apostles to go out and baptize the nations. So, to deny the importance or necessity of baptism is going against the commands of Christ.

However, I do think that a person can receive salvation without being baptized. We see in Luke 23 the thief on the cross next to Christ being told about his salvation. We assume that this man wasn't baptized. Who knows; he may have been baptized by John the Baptist, then went astray later in life. The reason I give this exception/clarification is that we know that God's grace is boundless. God can deem to save any soul from hell. So, it would be naive to think that such an occurrence is impossible. Yet, as faithful Christians, we should all be baptized, and preach baptism, as it was taught by Christ and His Apostles.

 

[Right Divider]

That is correct but it supports my point. After the Spirit was given, if those people did what Jesus said they will be saved and we can see 3,000 were saved by believing and being baptized. Acts 2:41

When was the Holy Spirit given to man?

A long time ago:

1Sam 10:6 (AKJV/PCE)​

(10:6) And the Spirit of the LORD will come upon thee, and thou shalt prophesy with them, and shalt be turned into another man.
​

 

[jamie]

We assume that this man wasn't baptized.

We assume that this man wasn't baptized YET.

 

[jamie]

Paul plainly said the promises belong to Israel.

Your argument is with Paul, not me.

 

[jsanford108]

We assume that this man wasn't baptized YET.

Yet? He could not have been baptized after we read of him, because (spoiler) he died.


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[jamie]

He could not have been baptized after we read of him, because (spoiler) he died.

Only for awhile. Do you know about the resurrections?

 

[God's Truth]

On the contrary, the public profession is valid in Scripture - but it is Israel's...

Matthew 3:5 Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan, 3:6 And were baptized of him in Jordan, confessing their sins.

In contrast to...

John 9:20 His parents answered them and said, We know that this is our son, and that he was born blind: 9:21 But by what means he now seeth, we know not; or who hath opened his eyes, we know not: he is of age; ask him: he shall speak for himself. 9:22 These words spake his parents, because they feared the Jews: for the Jews had agreed already, that if any man did confess that he was Christ, he should be put out of the synagogue. 9:23 Therefore said his parents, He is of age; ask him.

Thus, we read of the Lord's Words to Israel...

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.

Acts 17:11,12.

You limit Jesus and make him small. Jesus' words are life for everyone.

 

[God's Truth]

:chuckle:

No.

Their adoption is the issue of that day when they will be acknowledged by God as no more children, but adult sons.

This is why Paul even mentions their adoption to begin with, their in that "what about Israel?" chapter - because they never had it.

In other words - because God is NOT through with Israel.

Their Bar Mitzvah points to that day, one day.

Well, likewise with the Body.

Only our adoption - our acknowledgement in God's eyes, from children of God, to adult sons of God - both of those go from the one to the other, the very moment we trust that Christ died for our sins - because He Himself is a Son - THE Son.

Body members become children of God in the moment we trust that Christ died for our sins.

But in that same moment, we are placed by the Spirit into Christ's Adult Sonship WITH Him - no more children but Adult Sons.

All that remains is the adoption of our physical body - one day.

Israel's as too their version of that...will be theirs "in a day."

This adoption issue is one of the difference between a Child as a Potential Heir, and "a day" when he is acknowledged as an Adult Son, as An Heir.

It is not that other sense of adoption - that of taking in a stranger as one's own.

But hey, you go with where you are fully persuaded in your own mind until you come to understand, followed by your believing in, otherwise.

For whatsoever is not of faith, is sin.

Romans 14 in the spirit of Romans 5:8 towards ya.

You are wrong.

Paul is proof you are wrong.

Paul is a Jew and many Jews were believers and saved.

God cut off unbelieving Jews and bound them to where the Gentiles were.

They were children of God.

The cut off Jews can still be saved if they do not persist in unbelief.

God says He does not save anymore according to blood relations to Abraham; John 1:13.

Jesus didn't come and fail, as you teach.

When Jesus comes again he will not come to bear sin, so how do you think anyone will be saved after he comes?

The only way anyone is saved is because Jesus bears our sins.

 

[God's Truth]

No.

He explained that to "a ruler of Israel."

Here, download and read the following short pdf on the "Born Again" issue...

"Do You Really Want To Be Born Again?"

https://docs.wixstatic.com/ugd/d21e04_b97fc8d3312c4e8092e6bcc484823cbd.pdf

Rom. 14:5 towards ya; in memory of Rom. 5:8.

A person has to be born again that is what happens when they are saved. When they are saved they are washed and made new and have a new life, like literally born again.

 

[Right Divider]

Water baptism is necessary. We see in Matthew 28 that Christ commands the Apostles to go out and baptize the nations. So, to deny the importance or necessity of baptism is going against the commands of Christ.

You are following the wrong commands of Christ, or are you also teaching the law?

Matt 28:19-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

​

Matt 23:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (23:3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

​

Observe the law of Moses is one of the ALL THINGS that Jesus told THEM to teach.

 

[God's Truth]

You are following the wrong commands of Christ, or are you also teaching the law?

Matt 28:19-20 (AKJV/PCE)​

(28:19) ¶ Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (28:20) Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

​

Matt 23:1-3 (AKJV/PCE)​

(23:1) Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples, (23:2) Saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat: (23:3) All therefore whatsoever they bid you observe, [that] observe and do; but do not ye after their works: for they say, and do not.

​

Observe the law of Moses is one of the ALL THINGS that Jesus told THEM to teach.

Jesus did not tell them to teach that.

 

[DAN P]

Good job Turbosixx and God's Truth for having such a civil discussion.

I thought you both made very good points, and honestly, I think you both consistently gave answers that were pertinent to the discussion.

So here is my cent's worth for the discussion.

Water baptism is necessary. We see in Matthew 28 that Christ commands the Apostles to go out and baptize the nations. So, to deny the importance or necessity of baptism is going against the commands of Christ.

However, I do think that a person can receive salvation without being baptized. We see in Luke 23 the thief on the cross next to Christ being told about his salvation. We assume that this man wasn't baptized. Who knows; he may have been baptized by John the Baptist, then went astray later in life. The reason I give this exception/clarification is that we know that God's grace is boundless. God can deem to save any soul from hell. So, it would be naive to think that such an occurrence is impossible. Yet, as faithful Christians, we should all be baptized, and preach baptism, as it was taught by Christ and His Apostles.

Hi and just what does NATIONS / ETHNOS mean in Matt 28:19 ??

ETHNOS is a Greek thAT CAN BE translated by bthe following words , RACE , NATION , HEATHEN , GENTILE and JEWISH NATION !!

There is no BAPTISM nor REPENTANCE for the B O C !!

Just read John 11:48 , 50 , and 51 and to who now were the 12 apostles to teach in Matt 28:19 and 20 , to there Jewisn brothers , DURING the Tribulation , the first 3/2 of it !!!!

dan p

 

[DAN P]

Good job Turbosixx and God's Truth for having such a civil discussion.

I thought you both made very good points, and honestly, I think you both consistently gave answers that were pertinent to the discussion.

So here is my cent's worth for the discussion.

Water baptism is necessary. We see in Matthew 28 that Christ commands the Apostles to go out and baptize the nations. So, to deny the importance or necessity of baptism is going against the commands of Christ.

However, I do think that a person can receive salvation without being baptized. We see in Luke 23 the thief on the cross next to Christ being told about his salvation. We assume that this man wasn't baptized. Who knows; he may have been baptized by John the Baptist, then went astray later in life. The reason I give this exception/clarification is that we know that God's grace is boundless. God can deem to save any soul from hell. So, it would be naive to think that such an occurrence is impossible. Yet, as faithful Christians, we should all be baptized, and preach baptism, as it was taught by Christ and His Apostles.

Hi and IF BAPTISM is for today will nyou explain Heb 6:1 where you are yo FORSAKE the TEACHING of Christ and that means , in verse 2 the DOCTRINE OF BAPTISMS !!

dan p

 

[jsanford108]

Only for awhile. Do you know about the resurrections?

Naturally. Do you have any Scripture or history that points to the baptism of the thief post death?


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[DAN P]

Naturally. Do you have any Scripture or history that points to the baptism of the thief post death?


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Hi and you are AVOIDING post #76 ??

It just shows how CALLOW , that you are ??

Can you than explain 1 Cor 15:29 , what shall they do which are BAPTIZED for the dead ?

Does this help you ??

dan p

 

[jamie]

Naturally. Do you have any Scripture or history that points to the baptism of the thief post death?

If he could not be baptized prior to death what's stopping him from being baptized later?

 

[Danoh]

You are wrong.

Paul is proof you are wrong.

Paul is a Jew and many Jews were believers and saved.

God cut off unbelieving Jews and bound them to where the Gentiles were.

They were children of God.

The cut off Jews can still be saved if they do not persist in unbelief.

God says He does not save anymore according to blood relations to Abraham; John 1:13.

Jesus didn't come and fail, as you teach.

When Jesus comes again he will not come to bear sin, so how do you think anyone will be saved after he comes?

The only way anyone is saved is because Jesus bears our sins.

As usual, you misunderstood my post.

Rom. 5:8.