ECT MAD has no clue what "dispensation " means in scripture ! NONE
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When did John write to the 7 churches?
Better yet, did John write to the 7 churches before or after Israel's "prophetic clock" allegedly stopped?
I know. Thus, my lol at the beginning of my reply.
You know I don't care for open ended questions - state your point.
By the way, you forgot to call me a Darby follower?
Who?
John Nelson Darby.
No need; you're welcome
You know I don't care for open ended questions - state your point.
By the way, you forgot to call me a Darby follower?
Who?
John Nelson Darby.
No need; you're welcome
This thread is about Dispensations.
Most Dispies have the secret parenthetical dispenation (aka: the grace dispensation, church age, age of grace, etc) beginning at Acts 2, but we all know you MADists have it beginning somewhere in Mid-Acts.
So, Im curious where you place John writing to the 7 churches?
Nope, you are still about open ended questions.
I'm tempted to conclude you are merely baiting once more, just so you can mention the name John Nelson Darby :chuckle:
It's funny how you Darby Followers have certain questions that you guys are afraid to answer.
It would be impossible to not mention Darby in a thread that has the word "dispensation" in it.
In yet another reason that MAD makes no sense......
MAD has the grace dispensation beginning somewhere in Mid-Acts. At that time, MAD claims there were still kingdom believers with their kingdom churches left over from the days of Jesus, after the cross, and up till Paul began preaching his new dispensation of grace.
MAD claims these kingdom churches faded away, as the BOC churches became the churches of the dispensation of grace.
Most MADists claim Revelation was written near the end of the first century. MAD also claims the 7 churches were kingdom churches, not BOC churches.
So, why would God have John write seven letters to seven kingdom churches 30+ years after Paul was killed, if the kingdom churches had faded away, became irrelevant, and had been replaced with BOC churches?
Also, if Israel's prophetic clock had been put on hold, why are prophecies to Israel and Jerusalem given in Revelation so many years later?
MAD has the grace dispensation beginning somewhere in Mid-Acts. At that time, MAD claims there were still kingdom believers with their kingdom churches left over from the days of Jesus, after the cross, and up till Paul began preaching his new dispensation of grace.
MAD claims these kingdom churches faded away, as the BOC churches became the churches of the dispensation of grace.
Most MADists claim Revelation was written near the end of the first century. MAD also claims the 7 churches were kingdom churches, not BOC churches.
So, why would God have John write seven letters to seven kingdom churches 30+ years after Paul was killed, if the kingdom churches had faded away, became irrelevant, and had been replaced with BOC churches?
Also, if Israel's prophetic clock had been put on hold, why are prophecies to Israel and Jerusalem given in Revelation so many years later?
musterion
Well-known member
You assume a late date for the writing. And maybe it was relatively late. Maybe not.
But the context and content, as you have been told many many times, gives it away. Namely, Smyrna. This is the only reference to that congregation in the Bible and history has no record that a church ever existed there. I showed you several of these non-MAD sources before.
Point is, Christ did not have John write to a church that didn't exist in the past. He was addressing a church that will exist in the future, just as John literally was brought into the Day of the Lord.
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So, you're claiming what Bullinger claimed, and that is that the 7 churches haven't existed yet?
For arguments sake, let's assume that's true. Why would God give that Revelation over 60 years after the age of grace began?
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musterion
Well-known member
Again, you are assuming a late date of writing. Consider the alternative for a moment.
Also consider the giant hole for skeptics you shotgun through the Bible by saying Christ had John address of church that historically did not exist, neither in Luke's nor Paul's writings, nor in archaeology.
Also consider the giant hole for skeptics you shotgun through the Bible by saying Christ had John address of church that historically did not exist, neither in Luke's nor Paul's writings, nor in archaeology.
He's just baiting you, bro - so he can mention Darby :chuckle:
I believe Revelation was written very early.
It is most of the Dispies who claim it was written in 96AD, or later.
How early do you claim it was written? Was it written after the age of grace began?
LOL.....you ought to check with the Catholics, they have all kinds of info about the church that existed in Smyrna in the first century.
Moreover, how do you reconcile the prophecy to the church of Smyrna in Rev 2 with your Super-Hyper-Ultra Dispensationalism (which claims the 7 churches are yet future)?
IOW, when in your Hyper-Dispensational eschatology, is a church of kingdom believing Christians, persecuted by a synagogue of Jews (who say they are Jews, but are not Jews), in the country of Turkey?
You basically have two choices: A) During your Trib B) During your millennial reign.
However, I don't recall reading any Dispensational teachings that show kingdom Christians being persecuted by evil Jews in either choice.
Why don't you give us the "official Acts 9" view regarding the seven churches.
STP, heir, and musterion claim the seven churches haven't existed yet, they claim those seven churches that existed in the first century in Asia Minor have nothing to do with the seven churches in Revelation (Bullinger is credited with first introducing this theory).
Is that the "official Acts 9" position?
You didn't answer the question.
Let's say you are correct, and the seven churches are all future churches. Please explain how that fits your Dispensational eschatology?
When in the future, are kingdom believing Christians persecuted by an evil synagogue of Jews?